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Who is being 'unreasonable' RRG Bolton, Toyota GB or us?

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Slowly getting the hang of it apologies, for not posting correctly it’s a new learning curve for me, and also, I’ve been banging my head against a brick wall for so many months that I’m beginning to lose the plot.


I should have posted the specific details of ‘what the problem is,’ with the said Toyota Yaris, at thebeginning of New Comedy Double Act RRG and Toyota GB Parts 1 & 2.


I’m so used to dealing with RRG Bolton and Toyota GB who know exactly ‘what the problem is,’ because it’s documented on all their work sheets (well, the ones’ they’ll actually disclose and it even has it’s very own case ref no: ***793)


On Sunday 11th January 2009 my wife and I went to RRG Bolton to see about purchasing a new car. They had a ‘Blue Moon Event’ running where the price of new Toyota cars was significantly reduced.


We spent approximately an hour and a half with a salesman whom I believe was called Stephen Roe. We test drove a Toyota Yaris and were then shown the new ‘Silver’ demo showroom model for closer inspection.


I/We had a Nissan Almera to PX, and was going to pay any balance in cash, on my debit card. First mistake, I should have used my credit card for protection. We were happy with both the price and look of the car, a Toyota Yaris, but we specifically wanted a red one. Mr. Roe told us that the ‘Blue Moon Event’ had been so successful that the only colours that were still available were ‘Silver’. We said we’d think about it and left.


On the Monday we went to H W Moon, Wigan who were running the same event. We knew what we wanted, along with the price we’d been offered for the Almera PX. The salesman told us that he could/would match RRG’S offer but after checking on the computer, added that Mr. Roe was correct in saying , “ ‘Silver’ was the only colour left.”


Obviously he wanted to complete the sale, and everything was equal however knowing that a salesman earns a significant part of his wage due to meeting a ‘sales target’ having working children/adults of a similar age to Mr. Roe ourselves who also work to ‘targets’ and finally being decent human beings, both my wife and I thought it only fair that Mr. Roe at RRG Bolton should get the sale as he had done the ‘donkey work’.


The H W Moon salesman’s final attempt to sway us was to show us a badge he was wearing on his lapel. He told us that H W Moon Wigan were the only dealership in the North West to be able to show the award bestowed upon it by Toyota Japan for best Customer Sales. We stuck to our decision which we would of course live to rue for several reasons, in the months to come.


When later I commented to staff at RRG Bolton about the badge and the bestowed award and that maybe I should have gone to them after all, they commented, ‘ there is no such award, that was just ‘salesman b******t. ’ Whether, True or False it was an acknowledgement by Management at RRG to ‘b******t. ’and believe me, we've heard plenty more since then.


On the Monday afternoon we went back to RRG Bolton, excited about buying our brand new Toyota Yaris. However Mr. Roe was not in at the time and so we were assisted by Sean Chesham


We explained what had happened, that we would settle for the ‘Silver’ because we realized what a good offer it was but also that it was Mr. Roe who should get the ‘deal’ and as such any bonus or merit that was due. The Almera PX offer was £275 ( I know, a right old banger, which didn’t give us one of the problems our new Yaris has.) in true ‘Don’t Get Done Get Dom ’ style himself a ‘cheeky chappie’ ex car sales man, I asked for the figure to be rounded up to £300.


Ever the salesman Mr.Chesham said ‘how about I put £20 worth of petrol in the new Yaris? ’

We agreed. In the time remaining, ie completing the paper work to close the deal along with Mr.Cheshams’ attempts to sell us a 3 years’ service plan, and Toyota Insurance and Sure Guard protection or something like, Mr. Roe turned up and came over to us all.


We told him, we’d asked that he be given the ‘deal’ but he said to Mr. Chesham ‘I’m not bothered you can have it, I’m just so glad to be out of here, I’ve got a job as a Bailiff.


I had a personal registration that I wanted assigned to the vehicle, which Mr. Chesham assured us was no problem, we paid a deposit and he told us that he would contact us a soon as it was ready to collect. We had told him we needed it before a certain date as the Almera tax was due to expire, once again, he said not a problem, and that he would phone us to come and collect in a few days.


After waiting several days with the tax getting nearer to expiring I became anxious and phoned the name of the salesman on the card I’d been given. The thing was, it turned out to be the card of the salesman at H W Moon, who said: “we’d be ringing you to tell you your new car is ready, not you having to ring us,. I told you that should have come to us.”


I next phoned RRG Bolton.The car has been ready for a few days, has no-one contacted you?

We went to collect the car the following day, it was snowing heavily. Whilst Mr. Chesham was sorting out the documents we were given a seat and a cup of coffee. I then noticed that the ‘Silver’ showroom demo model was now gone. When he returned I asked Mr. Chesham about it, “that’s the one you’ve got, it was the very last one.


My gut feeling told me to refuse it, my wife however in an attempt to alleviate my associated health problems to avoid confrontations and stressful events, assured me it would be ok, after all what would possibly be wrong with it?


Mr. Chesham took me out to the car, as I said previously it was snowing heavily and the car was covered in snow. Obviously the 1st thing was to start it and he mentioned how the safety feature wouldn’t let you start the car without first depressing the clutch. I started the car, and put on the wipers. “ These are the lights, radio, etc, etc and this is the heater, you‘ll need that on warm and full today.” I said I wanted the heater on the windscreen and also on incoming air, as it had been left on re-circulate. When I went to turn the dial that Mr. Chesham pointed out, to re-circulate, it did so without any resistance, which I mentioned. He tried it himself and then said, “it’s ok that’s how smooth the action is, nice isn’t it, oh and I‘ve put in that £20 worth of petrol we agreed on


We went back into the showroom, collected all documents and keys and then my wife and I left perfectly happy. It wasn’t to last.


Across from the RRG Bolton Dealership, there is a petrol station. We drove directly to it and filled the car up with petrol. “Wow that’s a big petrol tank much bigger than the Almera

.. ….’. … £.. .. …… ..! I’ve left the spaces intentionally blank but when as a potential new customer you consider buying a Toyota from RRG. I am 100% certain that you’d be able to fill in the blanks without much difficulty.


Over the next couple of weeks the windows repeatedly steamed up and if I was leaving a supermarket car park or somewhere similar, we always had to wind the windows down to see out. I contacted RRG Bolton and got the obligatory and somewhat condescending “Have you tried putting the heater on, have you got it on the right setting ?” it must be me at fault surely, not a brand new car? At least we both thought the same about the car. The car was booked in for it’s first ‘return’ visit and we were given a courtesy car and told we’d be called when the car was ready to collect.


It was approximately 4pm when we returned, “nothing to worry about Mr. Bailey. A simple job, there was no resistance like you said because the cable had come off behind the dashboard.”


Hadn’t I said exactly that to Mr. Chesham, when he was doing the ‘handover’ and wasn’t I in receipt of a fully ticked and signed (illegible) Pre-delivery service check sheet dated 15th January 2010. “We hereby certify that all items on this form have been checked and corrected for proper operation as required.” I said as much and was told “it could have come off driving the car from the workshop to the parking bay!” intimating I was being too expectant and unreasonable of our new car.


Later, when our car had been repaired on 6 occasions, I would be told this repeatedly by both Mike Byrne, General Manager, at RRG Bolton and also Danielle Lashmar at Toyota GB

It’s unreasonable of you Mr. Bailey not to expect that a new car can go wrong. That’s why they’re sold with a warranty. I am not ringing Mr. Wright. I am not ringing Mr. Byrne and asking him about the steering events. You want to change your car for a new one and are not willing to pay any more money to do so


I have never said that. Those are Mr. Byrnes’ words. You have just hit the nail on the head.” ( “ It's a car Mr. Bailey. Cars have hundreds of moving bits that can wrong and need to be repaired, that is what a warranty is for…” Mr. M. Byrne.)


I never said that, You want to change your car for a new one

You said exactly that, my wife just heard you and I’ve written it down.”


Danielle repeated again later in the conversation that she never said;


You want to change your car for a new one and are not willing to pay any more money to do so

In that case can I request that you transcript the recording of this telephone conversation for both our benefits.”


These calls are recorded for training purposes?

They should be but I’m not actually logged into the telephone.”


I haven’t had time to log in because I’m doing my diary.” 11.45 am.

Who is your Manager please?

Allen Barrett, Customer Relations Manager.”

Can I then request that you do speak to Mr. Byrne again. Make an attempt to get the correct version of events and speak also with Mr. Barrett and then ask Mr. Barrett to call me please.”

I am not doing that.”

Well please for the record make a note that I formally asked to speak to Mr. Barrett during this conversation


Mr. Barrett never rang me that day or any other. Mr. Byrne however did, and it was at this point that sick of all the lies and deceit I insisted that any further communication between all parties involved was to be by recorded delivery letter or e-mail for the record.


So a faulty heater? It was just a teething problem of a new car, I could accept that, it’s reasonable it would be fine from now on. Wouldn’t it?

Returned to RRG Bolton for checks, repairs and replacement of parts.


11/02/2009 Mileage 758




05/06/2009 Mileage 3121



Front brake discs scored

Carried out brake disc skim & replaced pads

Removed rear shoes chamfered edges

Shoe adjuster sticking freed off.


29/10/2009 Mileage 8123


Warranty Work







customer request ref: Mike



13/04/2010 Mileage 10633





Toyota A Check sheet Needs urgent attention ****





E-mail to Mike Byrne 17th August 2010 “Could you also please for the 4th time of asking, 3 of those written, send me the Toyota A Check sheet showing that my Yaris Needs urgent attention

and that Emma promised me she would print off ready for collection on 20/04/2010 when I returned to have the Needs urgent attention work carried out, for the 1st time.”


Dear Mr Bailey

Further to your request I can confirm that I have supplied all

documentation available for your vehicle that are shown on our records.

Yours sincerely

Mike Byrne

General Manager

RRG Bolton (Toyota)


Note the basic mistakes in the letter.Possibly on his account of being economical with the ‘truth’


20/04/2010 Mileage 10809







28/07/2010 Mileage 13576








On, Tuesday 6th July on the back of a comment “I can see that you’re at the end of your tether Mr. Bailey” by the Senior Technician, Rob, when both he and I were sat in my car when it was returned again, because the wrong parts had been fitted on 20/04/2010, my wife and I attended a meeting with Peter Wright, Assistant Sales Manager.


Though Mr. Wright had tried to get Mr. Byrne to attend that meeting he didn’t he was ‘too busy’. We have never met Mr. Byrne on any of our subsequent 6 plus visits to RRG Bolton.


We left the meeting with Peter Wright, feeling positive that at very long last our complaint was understood, empathized with and would likely be met with a positive reconcilable and amicable agreement between us. Indeed Peter stated “I can see it’s no use us offering you an extended warranty or free RAC Cover for a year. I have 1 or 2 options to consider.” but that he would need to run them through with Mike.


Several distressing telephone calls on and many, many hours typing letters and e-mails to both RRG Bolton and Toyota GB. The only offer we have had from RRG Bolton is for ‘the car to be inspected by either the RAC or AA to ensure its performing as it should be and remove any doubt that we have,’ and from Toyota GB for us to ‘consider using an alternative Toyota Centre in the future, whilst thanking me for my ‘feedback and comments which are vital if we are to improve the overall customer experience we aim to provide.’


Why bother? It doesn’t seem that they ‘improved’ anything since the customer below and all the others

Toyota Owners Club

My experience of Toyota GB was the same as yours. I raised a complaint with Toyota customer services and the treatment I received was terrible in fact the worst treatment I had received from any company I have dealt with. I wonder if Toyota GB monitor these forums if so they could learn a lot about there core customers.


Toyota and RRG do monitor these and other Forums because we were specifically told so during our meeting with Mr. Wright. He commented that trouble is you don’t get the same response on these Forums when the service and experience has been good.


Then give us something good to say Peter, we’ll drive round in a Toyota saying ‘I love my Toyota and RRG are excellent’ all over so long as both the cars and the service are up to scratch, and expectation” He said he’d suggested as much himself, giving new customers maybe £100 if they had a sticker or other in their back window for 6 months.


By the same token shouldn’t I without redress be able to display my experience along with 'see driver for details' ?


Toyota A Check sheet Needs urgent attention ****





Mr. Bryne has always been at pains not to disclose this document, as I was that he do so, in order that ‘on record ’ I could demonstrate that after RRG Bolton had had my car in their workshop for over an hour and a half, it went from hero to zero in the space of 10 minutes, once questioned, about the 'grinding noise ' mentioned when I handed my keys to the at 8.15am that morning.

Excuse me Emma, the steering/suspension, what exactly was up with it?’


Since studying in great detail Toyota’s February 2010 Recall Bulletin

Emma’s ' on record ' acknowledgement that my car had never in that hour and a half been taken out on a road test is key, and perhaps adds substance to Mr. Byrne’s reluctance to accede to my repeated requests for the missing Toyota A Check sheet Needs urgent attention worksheet?


I was initially given a Toyota A Check sheet detailing that everything was in perfect working order and good to go at approximately 10am. By 10.10am my car Needs urgent attention ???


13/04/2010 Mileage 10633






The trouble is if the Toyota’s February 2010 Recall Bulletin is fact:

Let's get technical:

How Toyota technicians are fixing the

recall issues efficiently and reliably

HOW IT’S TESTED: Technicians test the accelerator using diagnostic

systems and a road test




Extract of Letter to Mr. Byrne 21st July

You’re right, that does sound like a big job, so how do you explain this Toyota A Checksheet that you gave me showing no Comments/Recommendations along with your emphatic assurance that my car was fine not 10 minutes ago?’

Err it was someone else’s car that the technician took on a test drive’.


I know what you are going to say Mr. Bailey

Would that be, that even if the technician had in fact taken someone else’s car out on a test drive, didn’t he wonder what the grinding noise was when he drove my car from the parking bay to the repair shop?’

I hear what you are saying Mr. Bailey, I can only apologise, it’s what I’m told


Owners collect their keys and documentation, which confirms that the warranty

remains intact.


Yet I had been given a document, confirming that the warranty remained intact but whose validity was surely dependant upon a technician having taken it out on the required a road test


I also have a Toyota Service and Warranty Booklet, which was given to me by Mr.Chesham on 15th January.


On page 30 is the Quality Certificate bearing both the stamp of the 'Dealership' RRG Bolton? and the signature of the After Sales Manager Peter Wright, our whoever was supposed to be standing in for him?

Except that page 30 of my Toyota Service and Warranty Booklet is completely blank.

Once again echoing Richard Tolleys’ statement 'If were a consumer, I'd be asking "if they had all this quality control in place, how did they end up in this situation?" in reply to Toyota GB marketing director John Thomson recent claim, ‘ of the strengths of Toyota is the strength of the team, and there is a feeling that during this period our people should be our voice,' he says, 'It's a personal commitment to quality by all our team members.


This is a Consumer Site, and as such I am anxious to know if my opinion of Toyota and RRG’s distinct lack of ‘personal commitment to quality,’ is unique to me and my wife because we are personally involved or whether as Mr. Byrne and Mr. Barrett would have us believe that such failures along with the distress and inconvenience caused by them is all perfectly reasonable.

Please let us know your 'unbiased' opinions

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You need to chronologically list all that has happened with times and dates.

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Thank you for your response, will do so.


Have just posted a 'reply' to Fizzer 123 old post and I saw that you commented on that 'episode' also.

Add this to sabers_of_paradise post, also on here and times and dates aside I think you'd agree that there is a strikingly familiar pattern here?

As mentioned in my post I only came across CAG in the last week after months of Google Searches and can assure you this is the 'actual customer care stance' currently used by Toyota GB.

I say currently because above and beyond my own personal interest I do feel a duty to others, and would like to think the somewhere down the line, and I expect that to be a very long line

my actions like those of Andy Sharman, hence the soon to be launched website and blog, will go someway to changing this 'disgraceful stance' not once, twice or three times because they got

some bad publicity on CAG but permanetly until Toyota GB grabs the bull by the horns and start again with a fresh attitued £20 million, £30 million £60 million its peanuts to them. You earn trust

you might well try but you can never buy it, foundations count for everything.


I'm ASSUMING and I know that that's a dangerous thing to do, but from a previous comment you made you have or do own a french car.

As I said in my post, personally I have always had Japanese, I'm old enough to remember the terminology used against buying Japanese in the old days.

Look where they are now, Market Leaders. Why because they used to make quality controlled cars. Now? Even their own Directors will tell they put market targets over quality which is all very well UNLESS YOU PERSONALLY are the owner of one of the ones they let slip through then net.


Eventually we generally sell our cars on in the private market.

1) Would you buy it from us knowing the history

2) If we deliberately kept that history from you and later down the line you had problems with it, would you blame and possibly attempt to take action against, Us or Toyota?


I mention; I do feel a duty to others. If we had £10 for everybody who said ' I just cannot believe that about your Toyota, surely you can do something.' Neighbours, friends, family,

they used to ask 'Oooohh got another new car?' Now they just know that it's courtesy car because the Yaris is back for repairs AGAIN, I could buy an 'alternative' new car cash!


And if your really really set on buying Toyota at least buy it from H W Moon or Bentleys just any dealership but RRG.

Edited by L7 CBB v RRG

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You are in the same frustrating ( putting it lightly) place i was in after my mistake of buying a Toyota, at times i was so mad i wanted to sit outside the dealership and protest and then at times i wondered is it just me do i expect to much. ?

I found this forum after we had already sought legal advice

My circumstances were slightly different to yours in that i was never offered a repair, but im sure if that did happen i would probably be in the same situation as yourself and probably at the same time.


I used to get very frustrated that people thought it was acceptable that a brand new car could actually already be 18 months old before i bought it, but in this country at least it seems acceptable but boy did i have a hard time accepting that


We were lied to during the sale process, we had high pressure selling techniques used when they knew the build date was going to be a problem

we experienced the pathetic attempts of helping us from Toyota GB even when it was obvious the Dealership were breaking the sales of goods act

Like yourself our warranty book was not filled out ,and stamped in fact out warranty book was for a total different car


After seeing a solicitor we were able to find lots of errors in the paperwork and i think this helped our case

and like yourself we spent hours going through the bulletins just to prove the leather seats were faulty

and like yourself i was left with a car that i couldn't sell on with incorrect paperwork and all the faults


we got nowhere sending letters of complaint to the dealership & it was obvious they didn't even read the letters properly. toyota GB would just keep referring us to them. we were getting nowhere, so in the end we saw a solicitor, this is time consuming and expensive not sure if thats an option for you?


how i see your situation is your car is developing fault after fault and this is the main problem you should be dealing with, ignore the dreadful service ect for now because that will just frustrate you and get you nowhere, unless they are forced to do something they wont take a scrap of notice


Im not sure if its too late for you to reject the car, have you asked about a replacement or maybe see if they will buy it back from you like they did with us


I wish i could help you more and i would certainly be delighted to add my experience to a website, infant ive only just filled out the customer satisfaction questionnaire LOL

It is hard finding other peoples complaints and experiences with different dealerships

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all i can say is thank god i looked around first i am in the market for a new car and live in the bolton area, at least now i know not to buy toyota, and definitely not to buy anything from rrg bolton. i would of thought that toyota dealers would be falling over themselves to please their customers, .......obviously rrg have their own agenda. will definitely be warning my friends not to buy from them, think i'd sooner trust arthur daley or the trotters

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Thank you for the lucky escape!

My current car finance deal is coming up for renewal, so I am looking at the best deals at the moment, and have been dealing with RRG in Bolton who appear very keen to introduce me to the new Yaris. The deals are fantastic and it is a perfect sized car for myself, I am single and need something as low cost as possible for running and maintenance. I heavily rely on my car for work, so new cars are the only option for me really, based on their “reliability”! I currently drive a Peugeot 207 and have had no problems over the last 3 years, but fancied a change. You have categorically helped me to decide to stick with what I know and buy the car I have. I cannot believe the amount of problems one person can have with one vehicle; and how many people go through this! I would be jobless if this was the car I was relying on daily. Many thanks for the heads up I love this site and it has helped me avoid the inevitable thank you thank you thank you!

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I'd like to say a big Thank You too fizzer123, dingledangle and Peu207 big fan, I don't think it's a Confucius quote however it is in the same vain " A torrent starts with a trickle " No doubt anyone under the age of 25 will now be thinking what's this got to do with Demonoid and Isohunt?


What Confucius did say however, quote; " I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. " Which although written between (551 BC - 479 BC) Chinese philosopher & reformer was bang on for both current and future times. Where is the very first place people go for information and help, today? Although once there it is the Google searches that they type that is off the utmost importance.


Type in Toyota in Google Search and you will see a myriad of Links that Toyota want you to see, Dealerships, Special Offers, What Car, etc they do not want you to see this http://wallstreetpit.com/41473-corporate-rotten-eggs#comment-265482 for this you must be more diligent in your Google Searches.


Vis a vie with RRG, Google Search will send you to their numerous dealerships they sell Mazda, Peugeot, Lexus and not least Toyota in fact Toyota is the next site on the page.

Be specific in what you Google Search and once again and you will find 'fact' and experiences that they don't want you to see http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/search.php?cx=partner-pub-3428242122128849%3Ahx3s3u-ytut&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=rrg+complaints&sa=Search#1199 take just a little time to pick your way through them and even the specific Managers name will 'pop up' *** (foot note)


Bear with me, because like I said to Mr. Wright at RRG Bolton, whilst I may not be a millionaire in monetary terms, I am a millionaire in time terms. I am retired and further because of all the sleepless nights that RRG and Toyota GB are causing me my time 'account' is paying out about 15% interest at the moment (this morning I was up at 5am the morning before 4am) that's an extra 4 hours Google Searching time when as a satisfied customer I'd should have been sleeping soundly in my bed which TOYOTA GB and RRG is WHERE I WANT TO BE!


In order to get my facts right, I'm a stickler for that. All that time, date, place stuff, I just Google Searched RRG and 'discovered ' that RRG Dealerships sell Mazda, Lexus, Toyota (of course) and Peugeot. OMG! (I got that and LOL off my grandson)


10 minutes ago I never knew that, so now I'm able to say to Peu207 big fan, 'stick with the Brand who deserve your support, but when you do come to change your car take into consideration what you now know about RRG and the Management 'style ' adopted by SOME at RRG.


There are 3 RRG Peugeot Dealerships within the Bolton area alone and I have neither the time nor the inclination to Google Search eg Complaints RRG Bury, therefore I accept that RRG Bury may rightly so, (because that's what the car buying public expect) be run by an honest, trustworthy, and competent team run by a good Manager to 100% efficiency and 100% customer satisfaction, yet taking


" I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. "


now into account, wouldn't one expect Peu207 big fan, to go to Bolton Peugeot or Perry's (never heard of either till you guessed it 1 minute ago on Google Search) and all because of a less than 100% Manager Mr. Byrne, at RRG Bolton, who is supposed to lead by example but does not. If I were the Manager at any of the other RRG Franchises I'd be pretty upset that I'm catching potential fallout from the bad handling of a perfectly reasonable complaint.

NOTE TO RRG MANAGERS 'Don't Shoot the Messenger ' SPEAK TO Mr. Byrne and at the same time ask to speak to Mr. P. Wright and ask of him what he said to me when asked if I had ever been unreasonable or impolite, in complaining "No. Never with me Mr.Bailey " I am entitled to complain still aren't I? Isn't that why Toyota have a separate department specifically designed to deal with

"Customer Complaints" for when things do go wrong in the not so perfect world?

Following his comments, in reply to my letter of 13th August 2010 Ref: MB Mr. Byrne seems expectant of his 'team' to lie and possibly perjure themselves because he is a bad Manager, IMHO. Would a good Manager have come to see the customer who had the need to return to his Dealership, for extensive repairs to a new car on more than 6 separate occasions and further have attended a meeting that he was requested to attend by Mr. P. Wright, with my wife and I, if only for a couple of minutes? Did Mr. Bryne do so? NO


If staff at RRG or any company, shop, NHS or Bank were being abused or humiliated by a distressed, dissastified customer, patient, whomever, on any but certainly numerous ocassions over an 18 month period wouldn't a good Manager come to the aid, assistance, support of his or her team?


I am 50 plus years of age, I have worked in different, industries, environments, counties, countries and even continents and in my experience, of course they would. Did Mr. Bryne come the assistance of his team in such a situation, he can't after all have been too busy, or away on a long wek-end caravaning or on 2 weeks leave on every single occasion. Then why didn't he come? Would it be reasonable to deduce that the circumstances he comments on never actually happened or was he just a bad Manager.


A good Manager leads by example he does expect, and hopefully not demand and bully, his team to lower their standards to his. If he does, the level of stress he is putting his team under in the long term will be counter productive.



The ' I do and I understand ' context of the phrase, will be understood by Fizzer 123 and sabers_of_paradise and many others who like us did buy from RRG and TOYOTA respectively and do understand the sheer frustration and stress of dealing with both.


*** (foot note) Fizzer 123 and sabers_of_paradise and L7 CBB v RRG and many others are at this moment in time 'annoying little pop ups' but we live in a democracy, don't we?

We are allowed infact feel 'empowered' because we can rant with our 'experiences ' on Forums such as this.

There is a new wave coming "Brand Management" were Fizzer 123 and sabers_of_paradise and L7 CBB v RRG and Barry Payling and Andy Sharmans voices are to be vanished as easily as clicking the 'pop up blocker' at the top of your browser. If Confucius were still around I'm sure he would have written something poignant, or then again maybe just stuck with


Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes.


Anyone can make a mistake, we are ' human' Toyota GB marketing director John Thomson said it was the right time for the brand to use 'a human approach'. Mr. Thomson spent £20 million in his recent mail drop. Apparently it was no were near enough!


It seems that although Toyota left no stone unturned in their pursuit of saving their reputation (spending a £3bn marketing budget in the process) not everyone is convinced that they have totally succeeded.



Coming soon to a Company, Service, Utility near you. Forget, Face Book, Forget Twitter soon to appear on Dragons Den it's the future,


" Brand Management" "Don't fix the problem Bury It. "


" You can't trust Toyota, but you can trust Toyota to be Toyota "



ps. Before I stepped up to Toyota I'd driven Nissan for 30 years. My Mum drives Nissan, My Daughter Drives Nissan even My Friends Drive Nissan, make the mistake of stepping up to Toyota and you too COULD soon wish you'd stayed loyal to your Brand

Nissan’s UK MD, Paul Willcox,

We always pay a great deal of attention to the views and opinions of our franchised dealers. That so many of them are happier with their Nissan franchise now than they were two years ago is very encouraging, and that we are now the 8th most valued franchise is excellent. We have a first class model line-up and a first class dealer network to help meet the needs of all of our customers.”

If only Toyota GB MD could say the same thing!

Edited by L7 CBB v RRG

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I am new to forums but I am looking to buy a new car and was thinking about a toyota aygo so have been doing my research.I am very shocked at you experiance at toyota. My family have used the bolton garage along with thier friends and have always found them to be helpful even when they have had problems.My Dad is telling me to get the toyota but I have a polo now and you have made me think about getting my 2nd.You have made me look at other makes and have I have found many horror stories with these but you seem to have done your homework and are spending a lot of time with this forumand you have put across your feelings very well.do you have any written replies or letters that you would show in full before I make the plunge because if I do get a toyota then I need to make sure that I do the right thing but i would also like to see how this garage have replied and have treated you


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I am new to forums but I am looking to buy a new car and was thinking about a toyota aygo so have been doing my research.I am very shocked at you experiance at toyota. My family have used the bolton garage along with thier friends and have always found them to be helpful even when they have had problems.My Dad is telling me to get the toyota but I have a polo now and you have made me think about getting my 2nd.You have made me look at other makes and have I have found many horror stories with these but you seem to have done your homework and are spending a lot of time with this forumand you have put across your feelings very well.do you have any written replies or letters that you would show in full before I make the plunge because if I do get a toyota then I need to make sure that I do the right thing but i would also like to see how this garage have replied and have treated you



Toyota have just recalled another million cars, keep that in mind as well.

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Hello Natalie,


Seek and you will find.




Choice, Choice, Choice. That should be the buzzword for 2010


Location, Location, Location. Education, Education, Education are old news, long live Choice. Have you seen all previous posts, on this site under L7 CBB v RRG?


Also empower yourself and sign up to savvywoman.co.uk on the ‘Complaints and Scams’ Post Forum.


Thank you for taking the time and most of all effort to read my posts. They are long winded, and occasionally rambling. Please make an effort to (contact fizzer123) and she can/will at least verify, that after banging your head against a brick wall for months on end one at least feels a little entitled, to do a Led Zeppelin, ie ‘Ramble On.’ Most probably before your time Natalie, ask your Dad, maybe he’d know.


Fizzer123 took the legal route when she encountered her, almost exact same problem and did reach an amicable resolution in the end however, as she herself quite rightly said, why should she have had to? Further she did not receive her legal costs nor one penny, for her loss of time and considerable distress ( unlike Barry Payling, British Gas )


Mozilla Fox it, and see for yourself. Of course you can Google it but Google seem to be getting all the ‘praise and business’ out of this post and well, it’s only fair that others benefit. Just as I believe that it’s only fair that Mr. Bryne and Toyota should have told their potential customers visa vie ‘US‘, about the known brake issues.


He was only too quick to tell us when we first complained: ‘Toyota GB are aware of the problem.” Well, they would have been wouldn’t they because people had been informing them at their Customer Complaints Centre.


20th August 2010, in a letter to us: “I would like to thank you for bringing this matter to my attention as customer feedback and comments are vital if we are to improve the overall customer experience we aim to provide.”

Alan Barrett.

Customer Relations Manager


Has Mr. Barrett been made to sign to Official Secrets Act, or something similar?



Because IMHO, I think the new Toyota car buying customer had a right to know that there was a problem. OK, now you do know that not everything’s is as rosy in the Toyota garden as they’d like you too believe, but only because it was dragged out of them kicking and screaming. And for which their very own shareholders are taking legal proceedings

****** Important that you read this ******




Natalie, Please go to Toyota Owners Club site and type in search ‘brake problems’


When you’ve found out the ‘truth’ consider yourself extremely lucky that you dropped on this Forum and then PLEASE, PLEASE pass it on to your friends and even your worst enemy. I wouldn’t want anyone to go through what we are.


For the better? NO! We had better speak to the mechanics, other than Toyota ones obviously, all though even some of those are quite honest on the Toyota Owners Club site, anonymously I assume. It’s that ‘human’ element that John Thomson is attempting to portray/buy. I just look at it that I don’t want anybody else to ‘suffer’ like us, and fizzer123 etc.


I should be out enjoying the sunshine rather than being chained to this computer and all because The Lady Loves Milk Tray? NO because we weren’t told the truth from the very beginning. Is it just me or is there a common ‘truth‘ running though this whole debacle?


If, when we went to buy the car on that fateful Sunday, (I knew I should have stayed in and watched the Horse Whisperer with Robert Redford! How’s that for a memory, 17 months ago?), Mr. Chesham had said:


Here we are Mr. & Mrs. Bailey, the Toyota Yaris. There are 8 different models, 3dr and 5dr, petrol or diesel. It comes in a range of different colours (well Silver only actually) It’s Group 2 insurance. It’s cheap to tax, cheap to run, 29 to 36 miles to the gallon, oh and there are known issues with the brakes.”


“Sorry what did you say?”


Cheap to run, 29 - 36 miles to gallon.”

“No the other thing Sean

Oh! Known issues with the brakes.”

I’ll have to think about that Sean. I’ve thought about it, bye


Now anybody else could have thought about it and still decided to buy, It’s a democracy, well it used to be? They, I , we and now you can make a choice.


This is the issue key to this whole case, Knowledge and Choice. People say Knowledge is Power. No it’s not, it’s what you do with the knowledge that empowers you. Which is what I’m attempting to do here.


Am I angry? yes. Am I distressed? yes, Am I reasonable, confident but professional in the way I complain? I‘d like to think so***, Were we open to compromise, yes.


Am I/we an isolated case at either RRG and Toyota GB and the way they ‘deal’ with the ‘inconvenient’ customer. Not by any stretch of the imagination and it is that, that I am trying to prevent happening to you and any other potential Toyota Customer.


Their Market is huge, measurable in billions of £/$, Rand, Yen etc They are market leaders, they got there because their quality control USED TO BE SECOND TO NONE.

USED TO BE! Even their own CEO and Director acknowledge they put Market share before Quality. Do they deserve that market share back, just yet? I know we are biased but NO, NOT UNTIL THEY HAVE EARNED RATHER THAN BOUGHT THAT TRUST AGAIN. HOW LONG WILL THAT TAKE? IF THE NEW BUYING CUSTOMER THINKS JUST A YEAR THEN MORE FOOL THEM. A FOOL AND HIS MONEY ARE SOON PARTED.


They sell/sold millions of cars. 99.99% of those brand new cars could be 100% reliable but be the .0001% , unlucky ones like us, fizzer123, and others and you won’t be able to put a price on the stress, and inconvenience both RRG and Toyota GB subject you too because you had the audacity to stand up for yourself.


Who is the Toyota Yaris’s ‘Market’? IMHO, the young, such as yourself (luckily your Dad is there for you) there are plenty who don’t have Dad’s for one reason or another. Pensioners, looking for cheap economical RELIABLE cars and Mobility Customers. All the most ‘trusting’ whilst also vulnerable of groups and least able to stand up to bullies








*** Excerpt of e-mail to Mr. Byrne and Toyota GB 17/08/2010

‘I'm sorry you feel my confident manner to be as you state in your letter ' sarcastic '

It is perhaps because of the training I was given in my profession, that you know nothing about, because you've always been too busy to meet me on more than 6 separate occasions, but which I told both Peter and Rob about, where I dealt with 'bullies ' on a daily basis for 14 years.

Must I apologies for not letting Toyota or RRG bully me because they're bigger than me, or let them tell lies about me?

Kind Regards

Mr. C B Bailey

cc Toyota Customer Services

I contacted Nick Freeman ‘Mr.Loophole’ yesterday as he had previously commented in the press.


And a headline in a similar vein said “ when your Toyota plays up, who do you call 1st your mechanic or your solicitor?


He unfortunately handles criminal cases only and of course this is a civil case. However on ‘advice’ taken yesterday we are now considering taking legal action against RRG in an attempt to bring this matter to a swift end on account of the toll that it is taking on my health.


The very stress if you have read all of the posts, I’d been medically advised to avoid when really I should have walked way when Mr. Chesham said , “that’s the one you’ve got, it was the very last one.


Like fizzer123 said, we shouldn’t have to but what do they say, ‘you can’t buy health. So Natalie, are you still here? Thank you once again for acknowledging my homework and perseverance.

Because, as note above, we are now considering legal action, I am not at large to put documents which maybe specific to the case up for public view. However I will contact you by private e-mail re: the proof so to speak.

It doesn’t seem right to sign off without a comment from Confucius. How about?

I’m going to have to go quicker than this when I start my Blog but for now I’m off to see daylight for the 1st time since 5.30am this morning!


PS. Hello fizzer123 I been trying to contact you for some 'very strange' reason I'm locked out of savvywoman.co.uk and have been for days despite my several attempts to contact Sarah so have been unable to see if you replied to my private e-mail? Are Toyota "Brand Managing" me already?

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I think i should perhaps mention a little something extra about my case that does worry me and its about the pedal-recall and the Toyota website that you use to check if your car is affected by the re-call


When we bought the car we were told it would be brand new and not affected by the pedal re-call because only older cars were affected

when we got my cars vin number we entered it into the site and it said you have a Toyota IQ2 2010 and not affected by the recall.

underneath it had a list of the BUILD dates of those cars affected, with the Iq it was december 2008 to sometime in 2009


Once it was established that my car was actually built in 2008 we wanted assurance that the pedal had been checked, Toyota Gb simply replied" ask the supplying dealership", the dealership never answered, not even to reassure me the pedal had been checked or changed


On another website a person had posted a photograph of how to check if your pedal was the one being recalled, so i had to check this myself, at this point the car was rejected and had not been driven for about a month


My concern is that Toyota Gb have incorrect information about the recalls because they find your car based on the date it was registered and not built but recalls are specific to build dates


The result of my own check was that the pedal appeared to be the one that was ok but i wasn't 100% sure


L7cbb have pmd you

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What's your actual problem L7?


I'm not so sure there is one.

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hi L7 CBB i have been following the topic on here with the thought "there but the grace of god". i was gonna say i cant believe a big company like toyota or someone like RRG would treat customers like that, but now hearing more an more ppl complaining. you would think they would be falling over themselves to try and make their customers happy, obviously not.

However i wish u well and hope you get satisfaction eventually, probably a stupid question but have u thought of getting legal advice an sueing thier butts, i mean not giving u legal documents that you have asked for, lying about taking your car for test drive, plus all the other crap, surely what they are doing is illegal.

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