Urgent Help Needed Please - Bryan Carter Have issued a Judgement What Do i Do

[foolishgirl]

Can the defense be submitted online?

Yes, providing it's not too wordy, there's a limit.

 

Sorry, no experience of PPI

[wilchy]

OK so if anyone out there could help with my PPI defense that would be great.

[citizenB]

Wilchy, you say you have a complaint in with the FOS regarding your PPI ? How was this mis sold and do you know how much you would be likely to reclaim in refunds ? Did you do a spread sheet with the premiums you were charged and the calculated interest ?

 

If you could let us know when you put your complaint into the FOS, how you feel it was mis sold and how much you think they have taken from you in premiums, then perhaps we can put something together for you.

[wilchy]

Thanks for looking in again CB. I received a Consent Order today from BC so not sure what to do? Will post back later about my PPI. Its all confusing and with me being a tad busy with other things tonight im in a right pickle. But thanks again. When I settle down I will reply again.

[wilchy]

Wilchy, you say you have a complaint in with the FOS regarding your PPI ? Yes did it earlier this yearHow was this mis sold and do you know how much you would be likely to reclaim in refunds ? This was mis sold to me as I never checked a box on the website and was most likely to have already been checked thus me having to opt out rather than in, also I wasnt told that I could buy PPI elsewhere and it looks like I actually had a third party CC protection as this is shown on my statements every year. I did the spreadsheet for CC PPI thats on CAG and it comes to £1040 inc Stat Interest Did you do a spread sheet with the premiums you were charged and the calculated interest ? See last Answer

 

If you could let us know when you put your complaint into the FOS, how you feel it was mis sold and how much you think they have taken from you in premiums, then perhaps we can put something together for you.

Will have a look in my file for when I first complained to the FOS

[caro]

I haven't read your whole thread yet, but a few points that need to be included in your defence are:-

 

1. Owing to the issue of PPI the amount of the claim is in dispute, so action should not be taken and the claim struck out.

 

2. Credit card charges are still claimable, so if the amount of the claim includes charges (have they provided a breakdown of the amount claimed ?) then that throws further doubt on the amount claimed, and further reason to dispute the account and amount they claim is owed.

 

3. As you are in an agreement with CCCS, you are already paying all that you can reas onably afford based on your current income and expenditure. (Did they get a copy of this when they were contacted about your DMP)?

 

4. If egg/BC get judgement, they will have an unfair advantage over all your other creditors who have already agreed to reduced payments, presumably based on your current income and expenditure.

[wilchy]

Thanks for looking in caro. Much appreciated. I have added answers in red below.

 

I haven't read your whole thread yet, but a few points that need to be included in your defence are:-

 

1. Owing to the issue of PPI the amount of the claim is in dispute, so action should not be taken and the claim struck out.

 

2. Credit card charges are still claimable, so if the amount of the claim includes charges (have they provided a breakdown of the amount claimed ?) then that throws further doubt on the amount claimed, and further reason to dispute the account and amount they claim is owed. No never recieved a breakdown

 

3. As you are in an agreement with CCCS, you are already paying all that you can reasonably afford based on your current income and expenditure. (Did they get a copy of this when they were contacted about your DMP)? My CCCS was done online and I sent my I&E along with the Token Payment letter to BC as soon as I recieved the Threat of Court Action letter

 

4. If egg/BC get judgement, they will have an unfair advantage over all your other creditors who have already agreed to reduced payments, presumably based on your current income and expenditure.

 

OK so now I need some help with getting my defense ready before Monday so if anyone could give me a start etc I can add or edit what will fit? Thanks again

[Dotty50]

Hi Wilchy,

 

FG has asked me to look in to see if I can offer any help at all. I have no experience of court proceedings but have put in a couple of PPI claims, offers made but not accepted yet. (due to having more pressing family matters to sort)

 

I see you have calculated your PPI and interest and the complaint is currently with the FOS. Did you actually put a claim into Egg for a refund? If you did, what was their response?

[wilchy]

Thanks Dotty for having a look. I sent them the letter to say it was mis-sold etc but never knew the amount I was owed as I never did a SAR. I have upped my response letters below.

 

 

 

[Dotty50]

It probably wouldn't have made any difference if you had claimed an amount, I guess you would have had exactly the same response.

 

Have you had any indication of timescales with the FOS? It seems they take some time!

 

Actually just realised I didn't have an offer from Cap 1 on mine, it was also rejected, so FOS is the route for me too, if I ever get around to it!

 

I am sure you will get much more help from others with legal experience, good luck Wilchy

[foolishgirl]

The format of everybody's defence is unique to their particular case but there are lots of examples of how to set it out on CAG eg:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?148840-Is-this-an-enforcable-agreement-MBNA-help-urgent-please-***-WON-***&p=1801351&viewfull=1#post1801351

 

You will also find Egg defences in the Egg forum:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?51-Egg

 

Yours will largely depend on the issues caro suggested above & these should be incorporated:

 

1. Owing to the issue of PPI the amount of the claim is in dispute, so action should not be taken and the claim struck out.

2. Credit card charges are still claimable, so if the amount of the claim includes charges (have they provided a

Breakdown

of the amount claimed ?) then that throws further doubt on the amount claimed, and further reason to dispute the account and amount they claim is owed.

 

3. As you are in an agreement with CCCS, you are already paying all that you can reas onably afford based on your current income and expenditure. (Did they get a copy of this when they were contacted about your

dmp

)?

 

4. If

Egg

/BC get judgement, they will have an unfair advantage over all your other creditors who have already agreed to reduced payments, presumably based on your current income and expenditure.

[wilchy]

Im hoping someone can help with a defense write up for me as its all way over my head, even after reading up on the links FG gave me. Anyone an expert on this kind of thing?

[MandM]

Hi wilchy,

 

Your PPI figures seem quite low given the age of the card. Unless you kept a low balance consistently of course.

 

Just for my own peace of mind can you confirm (roughly) the total of payments, interest and stat interest. thanks.

 

Defending on the PPI issue might be a good idea as BC seldom likes a fight (coz he seldom wins one ).

 

The question you have to ask yourself is 'regardless of the FOS do I have a strong enough case to reclaim my PPI through the court ?' Because this is what you're going to be doing. I've read all of your thread (a bit quick so apologies in advance if I ask you to repeat anything). I see you put up a couple of reasons as to why you think your PPI was mis-sold.

 

Can you put up all of your reasons, perhaps the wording of your complaint letter to Egg and anything further you've given the FOS. If you're looking for more ammo then go to the link below to the FOS page an overview of the ombudsman's approach as this tells you what the FOS may look for. http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/ppi/ombudsman-approach.html This will, in effect, form your defence.

 

I have a few PPI issues on the go at the moment at various stages. I also have an Egg card PPI thread but mine differs from yours as i'm not defending. I've been baiting Trevor Munn (Bryan Carters special friend) for months but can't get them to take me to court. But egg don't seem to want to play with me anymore. I haven't found the FOS to be that helpful in most cases either and they're pretty slow. My last complaint took them 5 months to answer.

 

When did you put your complaint into the FOS? What stage is it at with them? Have you told them that Egg have commenced proceedings? If not you must do this first thing Monday morning and post up what they say. Hopefully someone can correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure that the FOS cease their investigation if you start action against the OC. Not so sure how that works in a counter claim situation so that might be a question for the FOS.

 

My card is a similar age to yours so the agreement will be very similar. Check your agreement. I don't think you'll find any clauses relating to PPI. Egg will claim that it is all in seperate paperwork - insurance documents sent from another company! Egg will say it's nothing to do with them as the insurance is with the Pru. Not to worry though as they were the same company .

 

Have a look at my Egg thread too. See if it strikes any chords with you and your situation.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?245111-MandM-v-Egg-Card-PPI&highlight=

 

As I said above, it differs from yours and, for reasons I can't post up yet, i'm going a slightly different route. But it will give you the ins and outs of my complaint and the content.

 

i have no experience in writing defences incorporating a counter claim. But i'll have a fish around and if no one comes up with any better ideas i'm sure it won't be too difficult to cobble one together. I'll check in tomorrow evening.

 

M

Edited October 16, 2010 by MandM
Typo - fat fingers

[wilchy]

Just popping in to say thanks M for looking in and replying. I sent a letter to the FOS a few days after my reply from egg. Will get back to you later on the charges etc for my ppi.

[wilchy]

Ok having more blooming pc probs. Please bare with me. Will post more info in the morning

[caro]

Im hoping someone can help with a defense write up for me as its all way over my head, even after reading up on the links FG gave me. Anyone an expert on this kind of thing?

 

The vast majority of us are novices when it come to this kind of thing wilchy. I don't want to sound harsh, but this is a self-help site.

 

Just write down as best you can what you think needs to be in your defence. Put it into numbered paragraphs, with a space between each paragraph.

 

Don't worry about getting it into legalese, just put it in your own words and post it on your thread, and I'm sure the good people helping you will offer advice and suggestions to make it as good as possible.

 

When it comes to court you will need to be able to deal with this yourself, and you will be much better prepared if you start with your defence yourself now.

 

Don't worry how basic it is, but include every reason why the claim is wrong in your opinion and make sure you answer every point in the POC.

 

Is the POC posted on the thread somewhere?

[foolishgirl]

POC link here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?274081-Urgent-Help-Needed-Please-Bryan-Carter-Have-issued-a-Judgement-What-Do-i-Do&p=3098750&viewfull=1#post3098750

 

caro has given you very good advice wilchy - try & work on your defence today, post it up & we'll pitch in with comments and/or tidying it up as necessary.

[wilchy]

You are both right. Thanks for the advice. Just starting to do my defence now but have to shoot out to work soon. Been called out to a job. Should only be a few hours. Will post up what I have done so far to make sure im on the right track. I have used some bits from other peoples threads.

 

 

Egg Banking plc - Claimant

 

and

xxxxxx - Defendant

 

 

1. I xxxxx am the Defendant in this action & I am a Litigant in Person.

 

2. The particulars of claim discloses no cause of action and are self evidently an abuse of process, in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR (even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system).

 

3. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the Claimant’s Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

4. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of Claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

(a) The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or preceding the alleged cause of action.

 

5. The Claimant has failed to provide a complete statement of account, neither have they provided a method or statement as to how the sum claimed has been calculated

 

6. The Claimant fails to plead that this claim concerns an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act, 1974. However, the Claimant claims interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act, 1984 which the Claimant should surely know they are not entitled to by virtue of the County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order, 1991 (SI 1991 No. 1184 (L. 12)) in particular section 2(3)(a), which clearly prohibits such an award:

 

• The general rule

 

2(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevant judgment - (a) is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974;

 

7. The Defendant believes that the PPI on this account was mis-sold.

 

8. Owing to this issue of mis-sold PPI the amount claimed is in dispute, so action should not be taken and the claim struck out.

 

9. Reasons for the mis-selling of this PPI are as follows

[foolishgirl]

 

Egg Banking plc - Claimant

 

and

xxxxxx - Defendant

 

 

1. I xxxxx am the Defendant in this action & I am a Litigant in Person.

 

2. The particulars of claim discloses no cause of action and are self evidently an abuse of process, in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR (even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system).

IMO not applicable - you have all the docs etc, you are just disputing the PPI & charges

 

3. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the Claimant’s Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

4. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of Claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

(a) The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or preceding the alleged cause of action.

 

Not applicable

 

5. The Claimant has failed to provide a complete statement of account, neither have they provided a method or statement as to how the sum claimed has been calculated

 

Have you not got the statements? If you have this is not applicable

 

6. The Claimant fails to plead that this claim concerns an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act, 1974. However, the Claimant claims interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act, 1984 which the Claimant should surely know they are not entitled to by virtue of the County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order, 1991 (SI 1991 No. 1184 (L. 12)) in particular section 2(3)(a), which clearly prohibits such an award:

 

• The general rule

 

2(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevant judgment - (a) is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974;

 

Bits in green not applicable

 

7. The Defendant believes that the PPI on this account was mis-sold.

 

8. Owing to this issue of mis-sold PPI the amount claimed is in dispute, so action should not be taken and the claim struck out.

 

9. Reasons for the mis-selling of this PPI are as follows

You need to expand considerably on Points 7,8,9 as this is the primary case for the defence

 

 

FG

[MandM]

Hi wilchy.

 

I received your PM RE; your PPI charges. From the info you've given it seems you are claiming the PPI payments made plus 8% stat interest. Do you have this info in a schedule already? If not, pop it into one.

 

For now, you want your columns to be;

1/ Date (on statement - date of charge)

2/ Amount of charge

3/ Monthly interest they were charging you.

 

I can work the rest out. We need to be quick as this figure needs to go in your defence.

 

M

[wilchy]

Finally home. I really feel beaten by all this Dont know whether I can cope with it all. I must be strong in all this!!! Will try again with the advice given from FG and amend the Defence. And will do my PPI amounts again to make sure it 110% right. Will let you know in 20 mins M.

[wilchy]

Done my PPI spreadsheet here. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=X68M125D Now going to have a look at my defence. Will try my best!

[MandM]

Keep smiling

 

Looked at your figures. A bit more to add yet.

 

Will be back online in a short while and i'll send your figures back with the info and an explanation.

 

M

[wilchy]

Im smiling Thanks M.

 

Am i now on the right track for my defence? Or still way off?

 

Egg Banking plc - Claimant

 

and

xxxxxx - Defendant

 

 

1. I xxxxx am the Defendant in this action & I am a Litigant in Person.

 

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the Claimant’s Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

3. The Claimant claims interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act, 1984 which the Claimant should surely know they are not entitled to by virtue of the County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order, 1991 (SI 1991 No. 1184 (L. 12)) in particular section 2(3)(a), which clearly prohibits such an award:

 

4. The Defendant believes that the PPI on this account was mis-sold and that the Claimant did not follow the FSA guidelines of selling PPI, The FSA has previously stated that EGG Banking PLC used ‘Inappropriate’ sales techniques and EGG Banking PLC has already been fined by the FSA for the sum of £721,000. The FSA have also found:

 

(i) Failings in 40 per cent of Egg's telephone sales of credit card PPI over a period of nearly three years.

 

(ii) When Egg customers said they did not want PPI with their credit card, the company's used 'objection handling' techniques to persuade them otherwise.

 

(iii) The techniques used by EGG Banking to sell PPI included over-emphasising the positive features of the PPI and in some cases where the customer said they did not want it, applying it to the credit card anyway.[/b]

[foolishgirl]

3. The Claimant claims interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act, 1984 which the Claimant should surely know they are not entitled to by virtue of the County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order, 1991 (SI 1991 No. 1184 (L. 12)) in particular section 2(3)(a), which clearly prohibits such an award

 

Put this as your last para

 

4. The Defendant believes that the PPI on this account was mis-sold and that the Claimant did not follow the FSA guidelines of selling PPI,

 

The FSA has previously stated that EGG Banking PLC used ‘Inappropriate’ sales techniques and EGG Banking PLC has already been fined by the FSA for the sum of £721,000. The FSA have also found:

 

(i) Failings in 40 per cent of Egg's telephone sales of credit card PPI over a pe riod of nearly three years.

 

(ii) When Egg customers said they did not want PPI with their credit card, the company's used 'objection handling' techniques to persuade them otherwise.

 

(iii) The techniques used by EGG Banking to sell PPI included over-emphasising the positive features of the PPI and in some cases where the customer said they did not want it, applying it to the credit card anyway.

 

Leave all of the general info in this for your WS, concentrate on what actually happened with your account & in particular the figures that MandM will supply you with.