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HFO Services/Monument - Queries


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I am writing this on behalf of my father and would appreciate any feedback and answers to my queries. Here is a detailed history of the correspondance, please bear with me:

 

He recieved a letter in Oct 2008 from Turnbull Rutherford Solicitors claiming to be acting on behalf of HFO Services (I have since found out these companies are linked) with an outstanding account of over £1,000. He ignored this letter having never had a debt with HFO.

 

HFO contacted him by phone and told him they were collecting on behalf of Monument for a credit card he had. At no point has either Monument, Barclays (monuments holding company at the time) or HFO informed him in writing that the debt from Monument was purchased by HFO. First question - Is that legal? should they have informed him of this or not?

 

About a year later after phone harrassing he agreed to pay £50 a month DD (over the phone), they sent a letter in Oct 2009 detailing the direct debit with a direct debit agreement attached, he did not sign the agreement but the letter does state that he doesnt have to take any action and the DD will go ahead. What is strange is that in this DD agreement letter the debt has decreased from over £1000 to £662 before any payments have been made.

 

Sensing this was a bit suspicious he spoke with the Citizens Advice Buereau who gave him a template letter asking for a copy of the creditor agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 within 12 days. This was sent to HFO 10th November 2009. They responded over the 12 day period on 3rd December 2009, however they only provided copies of 5 statements of the credit card and not the CCA. The letter states: "Please find attached copy statements that we have recieved from Monument. As soon as we have recieved the rest of the documentation this will be sent to you."

 

Again is this legal? I have read in many places regarding this 12 day rule for CCA requests but am unsure what it actually means. If they dont respond within 12 days does this make the claim unenforceable or does it only make any further interest charges on the debt unenforceable?

 

He finally recieved a CCA dated 10th May 2010, however this does not appear to be complete. Firstly they have only sent the application for credit to Monument. This does not detail the full terms and conditions and the interest rate for the card. Secondly they have seriously breached the Data Protection Act by sending him the wrong application form from someone who applied to monument a year later than he did.

 

To clarify they have sent two pages - one is an application for someone else detailing their address and bank details the second is a 'Rapid reply card' (not a full application) detailing his name and address and asking for him to complete the following details on employment, income, contact number and to sign a credit agreement declaration. The declaration states 'I am applying for a Visa credit card issued by Barclays Bank PLC, I have read and agreed to be bound by the Terms and Conditions...etc' There are no comprehensive terms and conditions attached. Does this make the CCA unenforceable?

 

He then recieved a letter dated 8 days later (18th May 2010) from HFO claiming to be a final settlement and closure notice informing him his debt now owing £670 will be charged at %12 interest per annum, he ignored this.

 

He has now recieved a letter in Aug 2010 claiming to be a 72 hour notice of litigation.

 

He says he doesnt mind going to court as he can bring up the several failings in the debt collecting procedure - Firstly he wasnt informed of the debt being sold, he has since spoken to Monument and Barclays who have no record of him. Secondly the CCA wasn't provided in adequate time and containing the correct information. Thirdly HFO Services have breached DPA by sending out information on another applicant.

 

I would appreciate any feedback on this matter as to whether we can expect to get this debt written off or not and how to approach the issue. Thanks for your time.

 

Chris.

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Hi and welcome to CAG and the HFO fan club, which is very busy at the moment, do not beleive a word thes people say, they make it up as they go along.

US President Barack Obama referred to Ugland House as the biggest building in the world or the biggest tax SCA* in the world.

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I am writing this on behalf of my father and would appreciate any feedback and answers to my queries. Here is a detailed history of the correspondance, please bear with me:

 

He recieved a letter in Oct 2008 from Turnbull Rutherford Solicitors claiming to be acting on behalf of HFO Services (I have since found out these companies are linked) with an outstanding account of over £1,000. He ignored this letter having never had a debt with HFO.

 

HFO contacted him by phone and told him they were collecting on behalf of Monument for a credit card he had. At no point has either Monument, Barclays (monuments holding company at the time) or HFO informed him in writing that the debt from Monument was purchased by HFO. First question - Is that legal? should they have informed him of this or not?

 

- prob been brought on a phishing list ignore them.

About a year later after phone harrassing he agreed to pay £50 a month DD (over the phone), they sent a letter in Oct 2009 detailing the direct debit with a direct debit agreement attached, he did not sign the agreement but the letter does state that he doesnt have to take any action and the DD will go ahead. What is strange is that in this DD agreement letter the debt has decreased from over £1000 to £662 before any payments have been made.

 

Sensing this was a bit suspicious he spoke with the Citizens Advice Buereau who gave him a template letter asking for a copy of the creditor agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 within 12 days. This was sent to HFO 10th November 2009. They responded over the 12 day period on 3rd December 2009, however they only provided copies of 5 statements of the credit card and not the CCA. The letter states: "Please find attached copy statements that we have recieved from Monument. As soon as we have recieved the rest of the documentation this will be sent to you."

 

Again is this legal? I have read in many places regarding this 12 day rule for CCA requests but am unsure what it actually means. If they dont respond within 12 days does this make the claim unenforceable or does it only make any further interest charges on the debt unenforceable?

 

He finally recieved a CCA dated 10th May 2010, however this does not appear to be complete. Firstly they have only sent the application for credit to Monument. This does not detail the full terms and conditions and the interest rate for the card. Secondly they have seriously breached the Data Protection Act by sending him the wrong application form from someone who applied to monument a year later than he did.

 

To clarify they have sent two pages - one is an application for someone else detailing their address and bank details the second is a 'Rapid reply card' (not a full application) detailing his name and address and asking for him to complete the following details on employment, income, contact number and to sign a credit agreement declaration. The declaration states 'I am applying for a Visa credit card issued by Barclays Bank PLC, I have read and agreed to be bound by the Terms and Conditions...etc' There are no comprehensive terms and conditions attached. Does this make the CCA unenforceable?

 

He then recieved a letter dated 8 days later (18th May 2010) from HFO claiming to be a final settlement and closure notice informing him his debt now owing £670 will be charged at %12 interest per annum, he ignored this.

 

He has now recieved a letter in Aug 2010 claiming to be a 72 hour notice of litigation.

 

He says he doesnt mind going to court as he can bring up the several failings in the debt collecting procedure - Firstly he wasnt informed of the debt being sold, he has since spoken to Monument and Barclays who have no record of him. Secondly the CCA wasn't provided in adequate time and containing the correct information. Thirdly HFO Services have breached DPA by sending out information on another applicant.

 

I would appreciate any feedback on this matter as to whether we can expect to get this debt written off or not and how to approach the issue. Thanks for your time.

 

Chris.

 

all of this is std phish activities of our bottom feeders

 

firstly . STAY OFF THE PHONE...never speak about your debts to anyone esp a dca/fake solitor about them.

 

you did right to CCA them & what they have returned is not enforceable.

 

pers i'd just ignore them

 

if monument had wanted the money, they would have asked years ago.

 

they prob wrote the debt off years ago for tax purposed and just put it on a phishing list for a fleecer to try and gather

 

theyhave no legal powers [the dca's] so dont be tempted to respond

 

no cca = no pay!!

 

now just for ref when was HIS last financial in/out on the card.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Depending how 'aggresive' your father wants to be there are several options open to him.

 

What I would say is that I have identical paperwork myself from Monument, ie an application form, have told DCA 'account in disupute' go ahead and take me to Court, at present, nothing.

 

As your father has been threatened with litigation he could responde with the following, which costs nothing and will 'force' them to either produce a valid CCAgreement and know that you know your rights.

 

All good advise previously, just offering a choice:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

This is in acknowledgement of your letter dated ................and also of .............The contents of which have been duly noted.

Further to you stressing that county courtlink3.gif proceedings will be actioned by yourselves should I fail to make contact/stressing that proccedings are about to be commenced in regard to alleged sums outstanding and alleged owed by me on the above account,I remind you of Civil Procedurelink3.gif rules protocols. Nevertheless in my response to your letter please be advised of the following.

 

 

I put forward that you now have a requirement to provide me with;

 

 

1) A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditionslink3.gif that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. Please note that a "true copy" as defined by the Consumer Credit Act will not be acceptable in this case, and a copy of the actual executed agreement, including signaturelink3.gif, is required.

 

2) All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to

 

1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interestlink3.gif, payments and both the amounts of credit and any repayments made to the account.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations

3. Where there has been any event in the account history over this period that has required manual intervention by any person, disclosure of any indication or notes that have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to the account held by me with........... is required.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditionslink3.gif, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998.

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal datalink3.gif and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I make this request to ensure that each party has equal footings which can allow action to proceed speedily fairly and without undue costs or waste of courts time,as defined within Pre-action Practice Directions -Protocols 4.6 of the Civil Procedures Rules.

I will give you 14 days to respond with the above,failure to comply will result in a complaint being made to the Court./In addition to the foslink3.gif for any breaches of OFT and CCA codes.This includes breaches as a result of initiating a Country Court claim where failing to provide or produce documents make litigation improper..

Specifically this relates to one or any number of the following;

 

* demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* add any further interest or charges to the account.

* pass/sell the account or outstanding balance to any third party.

* register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencieslink3.gif.

* issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Furthermore,I reserve my right to make a copy of this letter available for inspection to the Court and Financial/Consumer regulators should you fail to comply with this request.

I await your response,and should you need further clarification on any of the above points,then I suggest that you direct them to your legal department.

Amend as necessary and send asap by Recorded Delivery.

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thanks for replying.

 

dx the last transaction was in 2004.

 

I think that letter is just the kind of thing he needs to send to see if they have their house in order (which I doubt). I'll get him to try that, thanks HS

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if the last transaction in/out was 2004 then its statute barred or very near

 

its for them to prove it is no SB'ed, not for you to prove it IS.

 

this is typical activity for bottom feeders when a debt gets very close to SB

 

they want to chance their arm on finding a mug to fleece when no-one else would touch it.

 

pers i'd totally ignore them & send nothing

 

it'll only put markers onyour file that a mug awaits fleecing.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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all is p'haps not lost.......

 

there is such a thing as 'payment made under duress'

which equates to a dca pressuring you to pay something when they have no right to.

 

you'll need to do some reading

but i think if proved, they cannot be seen as admittance of the debt so thus are wiped

 

its around somewhere

been a while since i've readthough, so not too sure.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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He finally recieved a CCA dated 10th May 2010, however this does not appear to be complete. Firstly they have only sent the application for credit to Monument. This does not detail the full terms and conditionslink3.gif and the interest rate for the card. Secondly they have seriously breached the Data Protection Act by sending him the wrong application form from someone who applied to monument a year later than he did.

 

 

 

This appears to have so far been overlook, yet it is, as you say a very serious matter. Are there any actual identifying details on this info sent to you? It really should be reported to ICO. Complaints - Privacy & electronic communication - ICO

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Having briefly looked up payment under duress I think he may have a case. The original solicitors letter says he has entered into a legally binding contract with their client (HFO) and as such has acknowledged the debt and waived any right to legal action. This letter was the first correspondance he recieved and at that time had no knowledge of who HFO are let alone entering into a contract with them. He has informed me that it was after recieving the initial solicitors letter that he contacted HFO and agreed to pay them £50 a month, thinking that he had no choice. What is strange is that he recieved the letter in Nov 2008 and responded in Nov 2008 (he wrote a note of this on the letter) yet the DD agreement letter is dated Oct 09.

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This appears to have so far been overlook, yet it is, as you say a very serious matter. Are there any actual identifying details on this info sent to you? It really should be reported to ICO. Complaints - Privacy & electronic communication - ICO

 

Yes this information contains full name, address, contact number, financial details (include bank name and last 8 digits of debit card) and drivers license details. This will be reported to the relevant authorities.

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right well that cca is crap then anyhow

so's unless they have got he signed agreement hidden somewhere, which would be REALLY silly to turn up in court with after saying they ain't got it.

 

i'd not pay them a penny more

 

let them work it out

 

almost statute barred

crap application form [ which is NO substitute for a CCA anyhow]

threats made unless he paid

phishing for wrong info

 

i don't think they'ed got anywhere near a court.

 

ignore the little fleecers.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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the best thing you can do in proving the duress, is go to your phone company they will have a list of the phone calls made during the periods you dad can remmember, as we all know the harrassment phone call tactics they use then this can be used and especially the threatening nature of all the calls on average they would make several a day plus all the silent calls inbetween, so fear made your dad make the payments

patrickq1

also send a copy of the other persons details to the ICO and also to the FOS and trading standards who are all looking at this company

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HI EVERYONE I AM NEW TO THIS SITE,

 

I am emailing you has i have received a letter yestaday from Hfo debt collection there are located in surrey,There sent me a letter reguarding an old debt from over 7 years ago which was from originally Barclaycard and there sent me a photograph of my street where i live and a copy of my credit file.This is the 1st letter i received reguarding this debt in years.

 

Before realising how old the debt was i offered them a monthly payment and there refused the payment i offered them.And said there are going to take futher legal action against me and there are going to send me to court and said bailiffs could come to my home.And This Dispute is over a 7 year old debt which should be now expired.

 

I did know the debt was old but, When i realised the debt was 7years old,I asked them for the credit agreement and the statements of the debt from the orginal creditor which was barclaycard and there told me it could take them up to 4 weeks before there get the paperwork from the orginal creditor.And my files are all ready with there legal department.....

 

i would like some advise on what to do.Has i think this debt collection agency is been unfair and i think there are breaking the law by taking photographs of my street and sending them to me though the post.

 

So far ive reported them to tradeing standards,consumer rights,office of fair trading,and the ombudsman service,

 

could ANYONE kindly reply with some advise for me please what to do

 

Thank you

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Hi

 

Send 'Account in Dispute' letter. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/579-letter-when-dca-refuses-to-comply-with-a-cca-request

 

if you have requested a CCA agreement by letter (if not do this and place account in dispute until they do).

 

Don't speak to them on the phone

 

Start a new thread of your own for this and join the HFO fan club

 

Keep reporting to OFT and also the ICO and the credit reference agency whose report they used

Please support CAG and they will support you.

donate

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Your father paid the mmoney under duress, so the alleged debt is statute barred, whether or not HFO like to believe the law = believe me they do NOT know the law, only the bits which suit them.

 

Their method of extracting the payments were very dubious, they should have given him a statement BEFORE he decided to pay the debt. not after a lot of correspondence.

 

He can quite comfortably stop the DD and if HFO try the court route they will be stuffed.

 

They CANNOT take somebody to court in 72 hours for a civil debt, it takes time to go though the court system, even if they go via Northampton bulk court, it would take at least four to six weeks before a court date would emerge.

 

Complain about HFO, Turnbull Rutherford and anyone else involved to Trading Standards via Consumer Direct, and Turnbull Rutherford need a complaint in via the Solicitors Regulatory Authority as well, and all get reported to the Office of Fair Trading and the Ministry of Justice.

 

Just because your father now paid it does not mean that the 'clock' has started ticking again on this alleged debt.

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sorry to disagree with you DD this bit " ignore the fleecers", HFO are a sneaky and nasty bunch, complaint against them firstly TRADING STANDARDS INFORMATION COMMISIONER THE FOS AND FSA then write a letter the account is statute barred after six years , send cca yes do send one ,also these photographs are becoming a worrying and destressing trend it is almost bordering on threatening behaviour and harrassment , so a harrasment letter must be sent with the CCA, but do not ignore under any circumstances this lot, they will have it through the courts at northampton before you even realise it and hence a unlawful CCJ, also check the credit ref agancies as they are apt to have had a default registered wether guilty or not these are tricks of HFO and this is from experiance...

patrickq1

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I have only made contact with hfo through email not phone. Id love to start my own thread but dont know how to do it i am new to the site only joined last night,Ive already requested the cca agreement but there said it will take them 4 weeks before there receive the agreement.

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