Zsazsa@s Mum Vs Cap One Heading Very Rapidly For Court - Help Please!

[zsazsa]

Long Story short - I'm claiming on behalf of my mum against Capital One.

 

It's been a couple of years to get to this point & I've had 3-4 successful claims against Halifax, HSBC, RBS (donations very gladly made through this site in the past at the time) & thought doing Cap One would be similar, although with Cap One this time, with it being a credit card I claimed contractual interest.

 

I need to ask a couple of questions as the bullying tactics have begun to wear me down properly now!

I claimed the following -

 

A. Default Sums

B.Associated contractual Interest on default sums (worked out to 25.39% going by what they charged themselves)

C. 8% Statutary Interest under Section69 when the claim actually went to court

D.Court Fees

 

Q1 - Was I able to claim the statutary interest as well as the contractual interest?

Q2 - I used the spreadsheet on Google to work out all the figures for the contractual interest & the interest soon adds up to big numbers when going back 6 years - this is correct isn't t?

Q3 - If I've made an almighty cock-up & shouldn't have claimed the 8% as well as the contractual interest can I just ammend my figures and still carry on the claim?

 

If any kind soul out there will help me I'll be eternally grateful & of course very happy to make another donation to the site.

 

This is heading for District Judge Glentworth sitting at Leeds who seems to be for fairness for the 'little man' & has been very willing to continue the case requesting additional information from me in order to understand the claim, as well as stating the claim could only go 6 years back & that the defendant had to submit an ammended defence. Cap One have left all dealings with the court til the last minute & I have heard absolutely NOTHING directly from Cap One since they asked me to end the action after payinga goodwill payment.

 

Please help - If I need to scan in Cap One's ammended defence I can...

 

Edited August 16, 2010 by zsazsa
Spelling Mistakes & additional information

[Still_surviving]

Heya

 

Im in the middle of 3 claims against CC companies and Im claiming in exactly the same manner you are - ie charges + contractual interest + stat interest (once i had to issue papers)

 

You sound fortunate to have landed a judge who isnt in bed with the banks

 

Very surprised that Crapone are taking this to court, though I wouldnt be at all surprised to see them settle on the steps - after all its a very dangerous precedent to set if the judge rules in your favour formally.

 

They will undoubtedly tell you your contractual interest calculations are wrong, because the interest rate varied, or they didnt charge on certain sums once you had made payments. However, its very strongly my view that they need to disprove your calculations and make a sensible compromise offer based on the data they have. After all, only they have access to the calculation methods - you cannot be expected to get it spot on....you just know that an injustice has been perpetrated.

 

Hope this helps - will follow your thread with interest. Whens the court date?

 

Edit - whats the gist of the crapone defence?

Edited August 17, 2010 by Still_surviving

[zsazsa]

Thank you Still_surviving - I really appreciate your help & support in this.

Yes cap one have told me my calculations are incorrect & I'm just going to upload their ammended defence so you can see- as I understand it, they're saying what they said in the original defence but with more words, just trying to put us off & blind us with science.

I'm just getting my bundle for court ready - court date 3rd September& I hope they don't turn up!

I've done the full bundle before, although that was before the OFT test case & with a bank, so I'll obviously check everything as there may have been some ammendments to the info needed as a result of the test case & the fact that this is a credit card.

Thanks again, I'll keep a close eye on what you say....

[Still_surviving]

Thanks - i will be interested to read how they intend to defend this. Have they made any offer to settle that includes Contractual Interest albeit at a different amount?

 

Happy to offer my opinion if asked...but please remember im no expert - just a soul who is going down the same path as you

[zsazsa]

 

 

The ammended defence from Capital One - I appreciate what you say about not being an expert, but also know that when you've got several claims running you're 'in the zone' and you're advice is real as opposed to text book - which is great for the likes of me & everyone else on here, so many thanks for your time again - it's really appreciated.

[zsazsa]

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/zsazsag1/Capital%20One%20Documents/AmmendedDefence1.jpg

 

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/zsazsag1/Capital%20One%20Documents/AmmendedDefence2.jpg

 

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/zsazsag1/Capital%20One%20Documents/AmmendedDefence3.jpg

 

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/zsazsag1/Capital%20One%20Documents/AmmendedDefence4.jpg

 

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/zsazsag1/Capital%20One%20Documents/AmmendedDefence5.jpg

 

And those are the direct links to each page so they can be seen properly.....

[MandM]

Hi zsazsa, subbing with great interest ('scuse the pun).

 

We have a few of these going off with credit cards. A fair way behind you though as nothing has reached court yet.

 

How did you calculate the contractural interest?

 

It appears to me (looking at their defence) that they're saying in some months you made payments to the account, therefore you weren't charged much/any interest and therefore you can't claim it (or am I reading it wrong). My understanding is that you'd be right to charge them month on month on an ever increasing figure. We've been working out our figures on a similar basis.

 

Will continue to look in and I wish you all the best.

 

M

[Still_surviving]

Ive just read the defence documents - didnt realise they had already caved in on the default sums plus some of the CI

 

There is a poster called noomill060 (think thats right) who became an expert on fighting the cc companies on matters of contractual interest. In fact he would argue that the 8% statutory interest only applies where there is no stated contractual rate. In cases where there is - the 8% could / should be requested at the contractual rate. That ones a bit out of my league though.

 

Have you read up on the concept of 'Interest in Restitution'? It basically means crapone have taken your money (ie the default sums) and used it to earn interest at the contractual rate - be it on your card, or in lending to others. You basically want the profits they have made back. In their defence they are saying they have already compensated you for the contractual interest they have charged you....however compensatory interest is not the same as restitutionary interest. Do some googling

 

In essence where you have paid and cleared the charge from the account, the money was then free for them to re-lend to others at the contractual rate... get it? (took me a while)

 

Have a read of the early part of my thread (rest is about CCAs and such like)...the concept is discussed by people who have won cases.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?223521-HSM-v-Bcard-Mastercard

 

I will have a further read of the defence docs when im back from work.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Still_surviving

[zsazsa]

well thank you M - this is the bit you need nerves of steel for though & to be honest it's a couple of years since I did my own claims & following all the advice & templates etc to the letter and with the support from everyone on here it almost seemed a doddle.

That was the banks though & I was at hell for leather, as well as completely clued up but since that test case & as well as this being a credit card which is slightly different, as a result I'm bricking it this time !

 

To expand on the bankground a little - did everything in the order advised, received the usual letters tellingme I'm an idiot & of course I shouldn't get any refunds as what capone did was entirely correct, although after replying that I was continuing they paid up fairly sharpish a tidy sum for a goodwill payment (a donation was made at the time for this bit of luck).

Anyway - I replied saying thanks, I wouldn't settle in or end case & would accept sum only in part-payment on the undertsanding I would continue to persue. Then the OFT test case happened & for some reason (not sure why I expect I had major problems of my own them) Capone & the judge lumped this case into the rest of the bank cases.

 

Anyway - eventually this came to light & under duress from Capone to discontinue the case, I wrote to the court directly saying a mistake had been made as it was a credit card chgs reclaim not bank charges & could I have directions from the court. Judge Glentworth decided to hear the case & very kindly said that I might want to ammend my claim & only go back 6years & she'd need shedules showing the calculation of the sum claimed in respect of the interest & a shedule showing the calc. for interest under s69 (8%)

 

It was all supplied & further direction requested - next I heard the Judge had said Capone must supply an ammended defence - although going by that, all that would seem to be different is that their defence is basically the same but written with more words & in slightly greater detail with more 'blinding with science'.

 

The court date is set for 1000 3rd September 2010, Leeds Combined court, with 3 hours set aside.

 

Throughout this though capone seem to have made a few errors or lost information or sent the same stuff 18mths apart without realising, basically without much communication in-house by the looks of it. I've heard little if anything from them & now different people seem to have taken over this case as the names on correspondence is different. I'm keeping everything crossed they don't turn up.

 

The most difficult thing I've found with the whole thing is the calculation of interest with this though.

Basically I used the spreadsheet in googledocs - the only charges I input into the spreadsheet were either 'Late payment Fees' or 'Overlimit Fees' & the dates shown - the interest rate I used was 25.39% (arrived at by using the interest rate they were actually using to charge me at) & obviously googledocs automatically calculated the interest & the totals.

When the case went to court I calculated the s69 8% statutary interest in the following way

'Late Payment Fee' + interest 25.39% (automatically calculated) + 8% Statutary interest - totalled it all up & that's what I'm reclaiming. But as the case isn't settled in full I keep updating the totals periodically as the interest is still accruing - just like it would do if I owed them money, until the day it was settled in full.

 

Going by their defence & what I've said/done in reclaiming since, I need to know if I really am stupid & they're right? Shall I carry on with nerves of steel or go quietly as they really do make me doubt myself?

 

Thanks...............

[MandM]

Definately keep your nerve. If they cave in it will be last minute lol.

 

If you're unsure of your calcs (and i'm always doubting my own as some accept and some kick back) try dropping a PM to either pompeyfaith or dx100uk. They both like a dabble with calculations.

 

M

 

And 'Yes' - noomill060 too

Edited August 17, 2010 by MandM
added a bit

[Still_surviving]

Not sure which interest calculator you used - i used the one below, with it set to 12 compounded payments, based on a 360 day year

 

http://www.egalegal.com/compoundWindow.html

 

I think its important that you understand that you are claiming Interest in Restitution, rather than the compensatory interest they are offering.

[zsazsa]

Hi Still - well I've been reading all those threads you told me to & now I do understand far better, although that's thrown something else up -

 

I'm just getting my court bundle ready which needs to be lodged by Friday 20th -

 

I've claimed the charge + 25.39% compound interest + s69 interest @ 8% as I didn't realise I could actually claim that last bit at the same contractual rate of 25.39% following the ineterest in restitution thing.

(Just double-checking & that rate of 25.39% was used as that was what it was at at the time of the initial claim, although there were some fluctuations, and now the interest rate is 20.890% for standard purchase interest)

 

Can I now ammend this claim with the proper interest - charge + 25.39% compound interest + s69 interest @ 25.39% even though that'll actually put the claim up slightly?

 

I'm soo glad you saw this!

 

zsazsa x

[Still_surviving]

Dont get me wrong - im not advocating you claiming the statutory interest at 25.39% - but it is something you could threaten crapone with if they dont play ball with the rest of your claim. You need to weigh up in your mind whether you think the judge might think you are overstepping the mark by doing so.

 

The main thing is to get crapone to realise that you are seeking restitutionary interest and that is why their defence is flawed.

[zsazsa]

right Ok got it - I'm sorry if I sound a bit thick, not normally!

[Still_surviving]

LOL if you think you are thick, read my thread to see just how much of a tizz i got into trying to understand all the concepts.

[zsazsa]

Ok - thinking/writing aloud here -

 

under capone's ammended defence - current position, subsection - contractual purchase interest, no 22 - defendant's allocation of payments - firstly they say payments are allocated to outstanding default fees - in my last stint in court with MBNA I think it was, in Leeds (big group of bank cases all lumped together & heard at same time in the Mercantile court) the judge actually pointed out to me, as he was questioning me, that usually any 'goodwill payments' be taken off accrued interest so that the original debt/fee still carry on accruing interest until the case was settled in full, rather than the original debt/fee as I had done in that instance - he said that's how banks with fancy lawyers do it.

 

In my court bundle should I address each point as they have done or just used the advanced court bundle & ammend as needed, adding a covering statement pointing out that their defence is flawed as i could hit them with s69 interest charged at their contractual rate if we're being picky, and that actually it's neither unfounded or excessive taking the concept of 'resitutional interest' into consideration.

 

Can you tell I'm nervous - my brain's gone!

Zsazsa

[zsazsa]

I'm still in a complete flummox about this court thing with these crappy capone peeps!

I either need help, reassurance or a heafty drink if anyone's reading....!

I understand the concept of seeking interest in restitution and that on that basis their defence is flawed; so yesterday I went through every statement they kindly supplied (lumped in with their ammended defence) & worked out the compounded contractual interest for each penalty using each different interest rate in force at the time of each charge, just so they can'y say it's not right.

One question -

If I show the ammended schedules for my calculations at this stage in my court bundle is it too late?

 

Thanks,

Zsazsa

[Still_surviving]

Im no expert on these matters, but I dont think a judge would object to you doing anything that results in a more accurate/fair claim.

 

You might also like to convey the amended schedule to crapone, but make it clear that this is your final change, and if they dont budge, you may seek statutory interest at the contractual rate.

 

Dont lose sight of the fact that you are looking if possible to get crapone to cave in before the court date - saves everyones time and effort.

[zsazsa]

Thanks for that Still - I appreciate your advice and am going to take it.

Over the last couple of days of sheer panic I think I've sorted it my head now & am just printing all docs off to get to court & capone for the 14day deadline.

I keeping trying to contact anyone/someone at capone legal department but they never answer or are on holiday! Says it all really...

 

Zsazsa

[zsazsa]

would it surprise anyone to learn I can neither find the original capone t&c's nor get a copy from capone?!!!

[Still_surviving]

zsazsa

 

Any news on what happened - your court date was 3/9 wasnt it?

 

Just got back from hols with the other half and wondered if id find some happy smiley posts here lol