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    • what rights of access do you have on your agreement with the landlord?   i suspect you shouldn't have to pay a thing.
    • then there is your proof to them why would you pay for BB twice!!   for my notes: GENERAL NOTES ON CHARGEBACK & Continuous Payment Authority & BACS   .....  We have been telling people to put a letter into their bank instructing them  not to make any payments under any circumstances to these companies  . http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/- it works! usually this should be done using the number on your debit card  .  banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers ! . CANCELLING YOUR DEBIT CARD DOES NOT STOP CPA'S  .  This fsa guide has now been updated:  . http://www.fsa.gov.uk/static/pubs/consumer_info/know_your_rights_guide.pdf http://www.fca.org.uk/news/continuous-payment-authorities-your-right-to-cancel https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/unauthorised-payments-account  .  Here's the text:  .  Cancelling a regular  card payment:  .  When you give your credit or debit card details to a company and authorise them to take regular payments from your account,   such as for a gym membership or magazine subscription,  it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’ or ‘continuous payment authority’.  . These are often confused with direct debits, but do not offer the same guarantee if the amount or date of the payment changes.  .  In most cases, regular payments can be cancelled by telling the company taking the payments.   .  However,   you have the right to cancel them directly with your bank or card issuer by telling it that you have stopped permission for the payments.   Your bank or card issuer must then stop them – it has no right to insist that you agree this first with the company taking the payments.  .  Be aware, though, that you will still be responsible for paying any money that you owe. and that CANCELLING YOUR CARD WILL NOT STOP THE CPA  .  ..  .  New june 2013  .  Regulator orders Banks and mutuals to review complaints about not cancelling recurring payments from November 2009.  .  Consumers who have set up a regular payment from their account will now be able to successfully cancel that arrangement   by contacting their card provider, the Financial Conduct Authority said.  .  The FCA has been examining how easy it is for customers to cancel Continuous Payment Authorities (CPAs)   due either to payday lendersicon or for other regular payments such as subscriptions or gymicon memberships.  .  CPAs, which are also commonly called recurring transactions or recurring payments,   are relatively easy to set up but can be hard to cancel, causing problems for consumers trying to manage their finances,the FCA said.  .  Now, following the FCA review of how the largest high street banks and mutuals process requests to cancel CPAs, they have agreed that they will ensure that when   a customer asks for a recurring payment to end, that will be sufficient to cancel the arrangement. They have also confirmed that should a payment go through by   mistake following cancellation by a customer the customer will be refunded immediately.  .  In addition to securing this commitment, the largest banks and mutuals have agreed to review every individual complaint they have received about the non-  cancellation of a CPA and to pay redress where payments have continued to be made despite the customer cancelling the arrangement. This applies to all complaints   since November 2009 when the Financial Services Authority, the FCA’s predecessor, began regulating banking conduct.  .  Clive Adamson, the FCA’s director of supervision, said: “It’s important that consumers are confident that banks are meeting their everyday banking needs. Today   customers can be confident that when they ask for a Continuous Payment Authority to be cancelled – it will be cancelled - and that it can be done easily.   . “We recognise that historically this is an area where some customers have struggled but the banks and mutuals have responded positively to our work on this issue.   From now on we expect them to be getting this right. In addition, they have committed to review past complaints.” .  .  Also mentioned your displeasure that as whomever took your money had obviously attempted this many times   probably activating your banks own anti fraud software - nobody had the decency to inform my you this was going on.? .  .In the FSA's own words:  .  ..  What should I do about a payment from my account that I didn’t authorise?  .  Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction.   Money can only be taken from your account if you have authorised the transaction   or if your bank can prove you were at fault –  . see below.  Contact your bank immediately if you notice an unauthorised payment from your account. .  If you are sure you did not authorise the payment, you can claim a refund.  .  However, your bank does not have to refund you if you do not tell it about the payment until 13 months  or more after the date it left your account.  .  Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction  .  ------------------  .  Your bank may only refuse a refund for an unauthorised transaction if:  .  ? it can prove you authorised the transaction  – though your bank cannot simply say that use of your password,   card and PIN proves you authorised a payment; or .  ? it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently,   or because you deliberately,   or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction  .  -----------------------  .  How quickly must my bank refund me for an unauthorised transaction?  .  The bank must make the refund immediately unless it has evidence that one of the above reasons applies.   Your bank may ask you to answer some questions and fill out a form confirming what has happened,   but it cannot delay your refund while it waits for you to return the form.  If the bank has evidence that one of the above reasons for refusing a refund applies,   it may investigate before making a refund   but must look into it as quickly as possible.   If your bank rejects your claim for a refund it should explain why.  If the transaction was on a credit card, the refund may not happen immediately.   But the card issuer cannot charge interest or ask for repayment of the amount unless it can prove you are liable to pay        
    • Only asking because I want to get my facts right before I approach the bank! Yes, BT is coming out of the same account.
    • not if they want to make the OP the named claimant no!! let them take the other party to court themselves!! the op can be a witness then..   one bitten...read this thread..      
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Kensington Mortgages - £1,300 in fees - HELP

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Hi there,


I hope you can help. Recently, due to a good job, I have been able to clean up my finances, but its been a hard road getting there.


I have a secondary mortgage loan with Kensington which started around 12k. I got the account in about 2006, and ran into money problems in about 2007, managed fairly well up to end of 2008 and things got much worse.


Recently, I managed to get on top of my arrears and am now out of the red and back on track. So i decided to send Kensington a letter asking them to provide me with a full statement, asking how they worked out the fees and that I feel badly treated during a difficult time.


I get a letter today which in rough tells me:


I signed a loan agreement i gave them the right to charge for the services they provide.

By signing the agreement to become bound by the Terms and Conditions, which included being responsible for any reasonable administration fees due to failure to comply with the T&C's


They list reasons why they charge for each of the following:

Returned Direct Debit

Monthly Arrears Management

Solicitors Letters

Court Fee

Solicitors Costs

Notice of Default fee.


There is nothing breaking down the costs, just lists of things they do. I also got my statement, went through it and have pulled out all the charges, which are:-


03/09/2007 Returned Direct Debit £25.00

31/10/2008 Monthly Arrears £50.00

01/11/2008 Compound Int on arr £0.69

01/12/2008 Compound Int on arr £1.69

31/12/2008 Monthly Arrears £50.00

01/01/2009 Compound Int on arr £1.61

31/01/2009 Monthly Arrears £50.00

01/02/2009 Compound Int on arr £3.10

19/02/2009 Notice of default £5.00

28/02/2009 Monthly Arrears £50.00

01/03/2009 Compound Int on arr £4.20

31/03/2009 Monthly Arrears £50.00

01/04/2009 Compound Int on arr £5.10

30/04/2009 Monthly Arrears £50.00

01/05/2009 Compound Int on arr £6.08

01/05/2009 Returned Direct Debit £25.00

21/05/2009 Solicitors Letter Fee £20.00

21/05/2009 Court Fee £30.00

30/05/2009 Monthly Arrears £50.00

01/06/2009 Compound Int on arr £7.53

30/06/2009 Monthly Arrears £50.00

01/07/2009 Compound Int on arr £6.36

29/07/2009 Solicitors Costs £292.85

01/08/2009 Compound Int on arr £4.57

01/09/2009 Compound Int on arr £3.77

01/10/2009 Compound Int on arr £3.97

31/10/2009 Monthly Arrears £50.00

01/11/2009 Compound Int on arr £2.97

06/11/2009 Notice of default £5.00

30/11/2009 Monthly Arrears £50.00

01/12/2009 Compound Int on arr £2.14

31/12/2009 Monthly Arrears £50.00

01/01/2010 Compound Int on arr £1.24

01/02/2010 Compound Int on arr £2.21

01/03/2010 Compound Int on arr £2.87

31/03/2010 Monthly Arrears £50.00

01/04/2010 Compound Int on arr £5.10

30/04/2010 Monthly Arrears £50.00

01/05/2010 Compound Int on arr £5.54

01/06/2010 Compound Int on arr £3.57

01/07/2010 Compound Int on arr £0.47

13/07/2010 Solicitors Costs £185.65

Total £1,313.28


They then offered me a refund of £50 saying "We are happy to offer a refund of 50% of each MAMF incurred during the months a payment has been received towards the mortgage. This comes to a total of £50 and has been included in the enclosed acceptance form. If you decide to accept this offer, we are also happy to re-work the interest charged on the fees reversed.


So, what do you think? Am I the one in the wrong? I won't deny the account was messy, missing payments here and there, paying bulk payments to try catch up. But never really got there, and all got messy.


What's my legal stance on this? I hope you can help.


Many thanks



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Hi JJ I have claimed mortgage fees from SPML, they charged monthy arrears fees and DD fees. I wrote to them adjusting the template letter saying they were unfair under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations. You can claim back the monthly arrears fee and DD fees together with the interest charged upon them until the date of settlement. Solicitors fees generally are not claimable because they actually use a solicitor and therefore actually do the work ditto with the court fee.


Say that if they fail to refund the charges with interest charged on them then you will take them to court to reclaim them. If however as you say back on the straight and narrow it may be best to use the financial ombudsman, they may take longer however less of a risk and you should recieve a cheque providing there are no arrears on the mortgage.


They will usually say that their fees justify the extra work, but I doubt it. If you want me to preview a letter before you send it feel free to ask. Also, how did you work out the interest on the payments? Were they on the statement?

If there are spelling mistakes on my posts, I blame the gremlins tapping my keys. :eek:

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Thanks for taking the time to reply, nutter.


Yes, the interest was on the statement so taken it straight from there. It shows the interest for the loan, and this compound interest which is obviously added on due to the arrears. I think the FO is probably the way forward, I am insulted they offered me £50, total pi*s take in my eyes.


I can write a letter from scratch, but was wondering if there is a basic template I could start with ? Any ideas which one I should use?


Again, thank you for helping

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Same with SPML offered refund of 2 months fees. told them where to go with that offer!!! Below is the template I used from the bank charges letter. Kept it nice and simple for the cretins.


I am writing with regards to the charges that have been applied to my mortgage account, these charges are unpaid direct debit fees, unpaid cheque fees and arrear management fees.

I do not believe the charges reflect the true cost to **** and are unfair and disproportionate. I am therefore requesting a refund based on the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

The charges total £****, in addition, I request that you pay me contractual interest on the amounts charged; I have calculated the sum of £**** at your rate of ****%.


I therefore ask that you repay me the full amount of £****. I have attached a full schedule of the charges and interest with this document. Please note that interest will be calculated up to the date of settlement and added to the final amount paid.

I look forward to a full response to this letter within 14 days.


If they reply in the negative or don't reply at all, do a follow up letter threatning court action and see what they say. Financial ombudsman may be best way forward, just let them know your serious, try and get them to do a final response so you can go to ombudsman soon as. Feel free to add to the letter.

If there are spelling mistakes on my posts, I blame the gremlins tapping my keys. :eek:

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I have written up the following letter, what do you think?


Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your letter dated xxx August 2010.

Unfortunately I decline your offer of £50, having calculated the charges since commencing the account it equates to £xxx.xx and is made up of:


• Compound Interest on arrears

• Monthly Arrears Fees

• Notice of Default

• Returned Direct Debit Fees


I do not believe the charges reflect the true cost to Kensington Mortgages, despite your vague explanations, but would like to point you at your own letter which states I would be responsible for reasonable costs, these are not reasonable. Also, I would like to note that as requested you have not explained how the costs are calculated. You have analysts who are employed to deal with these issues in bulk and are not solely hired to work on my account, the charges are unfair and disproportionate. I am therefore requesting a refund based on the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.


The charges total £xxx.xx, in addition, I request that you pay me contractual interest on the amounts charged which I have calculated the sum of £xx.xx, which is clearly stated in the statements you posted to me, under ‘Compound Interest on Arrears.


I therefore ask that you repay me the full amount of £xxx.xx. I have attached a full schedule of the charges and interest with this document.


During a time, when I was struggling with payments you have continued to charge me these costs, and as a result it has taken me longer to pay back and put me under undue stress. The situation became more difficult and in total, including solicitors costs I have paid over £x,xxx in charges which includes the above payments. I understand the solicitors costs are because of my troubles and accept I have to pay them.


You also state you sent me a letter dated xxxx July, highlighting the solicitors costs, to date I have not received this letter. I also ask that you supply me with the letters of defaults you alleged I was sent, as I do not have a record of this either.


Lastly, I will be forwarding a copy of this letter along with a full complaint to the Financial Ombudsman for further investigation, and ask for your full cooperation in this matter.


I look forward to a full response to this letter within 14 days.


Kind Regards



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Hi JJ Have tweaked the letter slightly, let me know what you think. If ok send it recorded delivery to their legal department. I have'nt mentioned the default notices because its best to keep those issues seperate. I will get a letter done for that as well in a while for you to send. I have headed it LETTER BEFORE ACTION to show you mean business, this won't affect going to the Financial Ombudsman but they may just start negotiating hopefully.




Dear Sirs


Re. Charges applied to account (XXXmortgage account numberXXX)


Further to your letter of xxx August 2010, I must decline your offer of £50.00 in respect of a refund towards default charges that have been applied to my account.


I have reviewed my statements and note the following default charges that have been applied to my account:-


Monthly Arrears Fee

Returned Direct Debit Fee

Notice of Default Fee


I do not believe that these default charges as above reflect the true cost to Kensington Mortgages and despite previous request for a breakdown of these charges this has not been forthcoming. Therefore, I believe these charges are unfair and disproportionate. I am therefore requesting a full refund of these charges based on the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.


I also note that contractual interest has been added to each charge at a rate of xxx % and I request that you also refund this interest that has been attached as the charges are unfair and I should be placed in a position of financial state that had I not paid the charges, I would not have paid the interest.


In addition, I am also of the opinion that this money has been unlawfully withheld from me under the impression that these charges were portrayed as fair and proportionate, I am therefore also requesting that you pay an additional 8% interest on the charges, this is the amount a court will award and I would view this as fair compensation for being misled over the nature of these charges.


I therefore request that you repay me the full amount of xxx, this being the sum of the original charges, contractual interest added to the charges and 8% interest, this being the amount a court will award. I have attached a full schedule of these charges and their respective interest with this document.


Furthermore, with regards to the solicitors fees shown on my statement, I still have not recievd a breakdown of their fees and disbursements despite requesting this in previous correspondence sent in July 2010.


Please note that you may consider this a letter before action and should I not receive a reply within the next 14 days, then I will commence county court proceedings without further recourse to you.


I look forward to hearing from you in due course.


Yours sincerely

If there are spelling mistakes on my posts, I blame the gremlins tapping my keys. :eek:

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wow this letter is excellent and reads clearer than mine, I cannot thank you enough.


I am going to get this sent off Recorded Delivery tomorrow along with a separate breakdown of the costs.


If I get a better figure back for this I will be sure to donate some of the cash to this forum, this place has been my 'find of the year'. At last, I am able to fight back with knowledge.


Again, thanks nutter, I will keep you posted on progress.

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As soon as they reply let me know. Love to see justice against these companies. Remember if they ring you just say that you wish all correspondence to be made in writing.

If there are spelling mistakes on my posts, I blame the gremlins tapping my keys. :eek:

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Guest Jason King

It wouldn't be wise to start legal proceedings against these scumbags because your contract will almost certainly have an indemnity clause and you will end up paying their legal fees-even if you were to win.


Also, I believe they are able to rank up your APR as and when they like. Just bear that in mind should they get upset!


I'd go for them once I'd paid them off.

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As I said the threat of court is so that the OP is taken more seriously by the company and ultimately the best thing to do is to claim via the FOS.


Also, if they rack up the interest rate it would depend however on whether it is fixed or whether the OP can switch to another provider.

If there are spelling mistakes on my posts, I blame the gremlins tapping my keys. :eek:

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Thanks for the heads up, however, I will not be bullied. If they want to take that road, bring it, I will fight them.


In the meantime, I will go through the FOS. If my interest suddenly goes up, I will ask for an explanation why, I will then go for them on the grounds of victimisation and bullying. There are some things you just can't get away with.

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I am behind with my mortgage with ge money and the charges are dreadful but they cant go for repo as my house is awaiting to be sold (just awaiting for my buyer to sell) what Im doing is awaiting for all to be paid off when done and dusted then sting em revenge is a dish best served cold.

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Well, I received a response to my second letter this morning and it says


"Thank you for your updated letter.


We refer you to our letter dated 12th August, which clearly sets out our position regarding the fees applied to your account. This was our full and final response and we advise you now have the right to refer to your Financial Ombudsman Service.


As requested, please find enclosed a copy of your invoices received from our solicitors in relation to your account."


So, looks like FOS it is then. I am happy with the solicitors invoices, a true reflection of the costs involved and I am prepared to pay them. Its the other fees I am not happy with, ridiculous.

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hi jimjams have been away from CAG a while. I take it you have complained to the FOS. They may take a while but it is better than chancing it in court. Let me know how things go from here.

If there are spelling mistakes on my posts, I blame the gremlins tapping my keys. :eek:

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I'd be interested to know how you get on with this ****, because I'm probably at the stage where I need to go down the FOS route.


I've no mortgage anymore and live in Scotland so the FOS is really the only route for me.


The response you've received is fairly typical this modern day crew of bandits usually play hard ball right up until court then bottle at the last minute. Its a tactic employed by the DCA's and unfortutely it works some of the time, but not with me.:lol:

We live in an unmoderated country why should the net be any different?

Bring back free speech we miss it!

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Solicitors fees CAN be claimed back, especially if they charge a blanket fee rather than the ACTUAL fee. GMAC got hammered by the FOS on this, they were charging £1000 when the actual cost was £350.... a nice little earner....


Solicitors costs need to be fully itemised as they often include court costs, then the court costs get added to your account, again a nice bit of double accounting.

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