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Rayne

Rayne Vs Streamline.net

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Not sure if this is the corect forum so apologies in advance if not.

 

Streamline.net, a web hosting company, in my opinion has just ripped me off to the tune of £117.48. I had a trial account with them which I never used as the domain registration was incorrect. For the last 3 days I've had the amount pending against my wife's bacnk account with no idea why until today. No email notification from them, even though they sent one on 09/08/10, refusal to close the accounts with them until they receive a "Support Ticket".

 

I've been readiing through the limited number of threads on here with regards to them and Andrew Dollamore, and have taken the opportunity of contacting my wife's bank to advise them that the money was taken without consent.

 

The sticking point is that their T&C's state:

 

1.4 If You don't upgrade or cancel Your Trial User account before the end of the three month trial term, Streamline.Net will automatically upgrade You to the Plus package and charge Your credit/ debit card for Your first two year's of service. Any payments made after the trial term ends will be non-refundable and subject to the renewal and cancellation policies as shown in sections 6 and 7 of this Agreement. If You do terminate Your Trial User Package You will not be entitled to a refund for any additional services purchased during the trial term, including domain names.

 

Their full T&C's can be found here: http://www.streamline.net/about-us/terms-and-conditions/

 

Obviously I'm going to close all accounts with them etc via their own methodology, however my question is, "what next?"

If there's a way of taking them to court over this I'm happy to do so. I don't want the company, I want Dollamore, which is what I advised them on the phone this morning. Perhaps I shouldn't have done but I'm seriously livid right now to the point I'd happily swing for "someone". Whether or not that's libellios or whatever I don't really care, in fact as far as I'm concerned it's not, it's an expression of feeling which I firmly believe we're all entitled to.

 

Rgds and well and truly hacked off


DCA's - they have the same power as an infinite number of untrained chimps working on a script for Hamlet, but the chimps would probably at least get it right :D

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Look at this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?128159-Streamline-net-taking-money-from-my-account&p=3085350#post3085350

 

Pages 10 and 11 have a lot of legal info on them. (I also pointed people in this direction aswell ;))


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Locutus of Borg, thanks for that, just had a very quick skim on that page and looks good - will sit down and read properly once the kids have stopped beating each other up :D


DCA's - they have the same power as an infinite number of untrained chimps working on a script for Hamlet, but the chimps would probably at least get it right :D

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Rayne,

 

nobody (not even the Queen or Prime Minister) is allowed to take money from your bank account without first telling you, and against a contract you have signed and accepted.

 

To do so, without your knowledge, expectation or consent is a criminal cotravention of the Theft Act (1968, and later ammendments) and punishable by up to 10 years in prison plus a fine - criminals can have their ill-gotten gains confiscated.

 

Andrew Dollamore sold out to the firm that put him on the road to infamy, fasthosts.co.uk, some 2 years ago, and fasthosts is owned by Allied Internet AG ( mostly owned by Ralph Dommermuth, the iGerman internet billionaire.

 

Google 'streamline.net , legal' and then, of the many forums, click on 'vinylonthe.net'

 

You will see the empty stable block that used to be Mr Dollamore's jibe and ploy, and my letters that threatened to put the whole shebang of conmen inside.

 

After reading same please tell us on this forum whether or not you have sufficient info to hang all these twats out with the washing at one of Her Majesty's establishments for the re-education of nasties

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looking thru now. fyi, there response to my account closure request. dont worry there is less than zero chance of my letting this lay.

 

Thank you for your query

 

I have checked your account and the hosting package cannot be closed at this time as it is currently in contract until June 2011. If you do wish to close you need to contact us after the payment in May 2011 in order for us to schedule the closure.

 

Please note we are unable to close the hosting package or schedule the closure before this time.

 

Please also note that you can use any domain name with this existing package, not just the one it was set up for. If you would like some help to add another domain name to the hosting package, or if you are experiencing any technical difficulties with your services, please contact the Technical Support Team on 0844 941 1000.

 

 

 

 

 

my response

 

Thank you for your rapid response.

 

I hereby give you notice that I fully intend to prosecute your company now under the Theft Act for removal of monies without consent.

 

Your T&C's are bordering on the unlawful, if not illegal, and are certainly downright immoral.

 

I look forward to seeing you in Court

 

Happy days

 

 

 

 

maybe not worded as it should be but they'll certainly be receiving a formal notification. derbyshire ts will be getting a phone call tomorrow as well


DCA's - they have the same power as an infinite number of untrained chimps working on a script for Hamlet, but the chimps would probably at least get it right :D

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Agree with the above. I would get on to your bank and advise that the money has been taken without authority.

 

I would also get onto Trading Standards as well.

 

If you wanted a domain for business then this link here for a free website and hosting may be of interest. I've signed up for a simple site for a small computer business that I run as a sideline for my main job.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

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Heya, thanks for that :) Also just contacted Watchdog and will be contacting my local constabulary in the morning as well as TS. Bank was notified this morning when we first realised and when I read relative posts to this so hopefully that will come up trumps as well. However, its now not enough for them to just return the money. Not now, not after reading everything else on them. Now i WANT to take them to court.


DCA's - they have the same power as an infinite number of untrained chimps working on a script for Hamlet, but the chimps would probably at least get it right :D

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Saying that, their office is in town......


DCA's - they have the same power as an infinite number of untrained chimps working on a script for Hamlet, but the chimps would probably at least get it right :D

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Sirs

 

I would like to report the taking of money without either my wife’s or mine consent from a bank account with Jupiter Banking. Account number *********, based at Petrol Filling Station on Titan. The sum is for £117.48, however I believe under the Theft Act 1968, the actual amount is not relevant. The company that debited the amount, with no notification at all, although they state differently, and without consent, is Streamline.net, who I believe have offices at 154 Southgate Street, Gloucester.

 

At this time all I wish is for the incident to be recorded and given an incident number.

 

In relation to this I have also contacted BBC Watchdog via their website, and will be contacting Trading Standards also. This incident is not related to just myself. Any google search for Streamline.net will turn up on the first page alone any number of similar incidents and stories.

 

I would also appreciate your guidance on how best to proceed at this point as I believe it falls under Sections 15, 15A with regards to the theft itself. Section 18 I believe refers to those responsible with it being a company. Apologies if that sounds like I’m trying to tell you your jobs as that is not the intent. I also believe that the Chief Constable has been previously contacted regarding this company and similar incidents.

 

Kind Regards


DCA's - they have the same power as an infinite number of untrained chimps working on a script for Hamlet, but the chimps would probably at least get it right :D

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Thank you for your E Mail.

 

Please report this to http://www.actionfraud.org.uk. They will be able to advise you and take details as necessary. They will then pass all details onto the the police for any further investigation.

 

 

Police Contact Centre Operator

Contact Management Department

Gloucestershire Constabulary

 Gloucestershire Triservice Emergency Centre|Waterwells Business Park|Quedgeley|GL2 2BP

 (0845) 901234|Fax: 01452 759126

http://www.callcentre@gloucestershire.pnn.police.uk

 

 

 

 

 

 

DId that and had the following response:

 

 

Please Call Your Local Police

 

 

As Action Fraud does not at present collect reports for your fraud type please report this incident directly to your local police. However, if you are in immediate danger of a physical attack or lose of money then you should call 999.

 

For further advice on fraud, and how to avoid it, please return to our website:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Emailed the police back:

 

Thank you for your response. After completing all the information requested by the web address you supplied, I received the following response:

 

 

 

 

Please Call Your Local Police

 

As Action Fraud does not at present collect reports for your fraud type please report this incident directly to your local police. However, if you are in immediate danger of a physical attack or lose of money then you should call 999.

For further advice on fraud, and how to avoid it, please return to our website:

 

 

 

 

Therefore I’m requesting AGAIN, that this be recorded as originally requested.

 

Many thanks


DCA's - they have the same power as an infinite number of untrained chimps working on a script for Hamlet, but the chimps would probably at least get it right :D

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Response from Streamline:

 

Thank you for your query

 

I am sorry that you feel we are being unfair but you agreed to the minimum term when you took the account out.

 

Please contact us again after the last payment has been taken in May 2011 and we will be happy to close the account at that time for you.

 

 

 

My reply:

 

Thank you for your response.

 

Now that we both know where we both stand it should make things somewhat clearer.

 

In the meantime, under the CPR Section 31.2 I now require you to provide evidence that, as per our telephone conversation yesterday, that an email was sent and received on 9th August 2010 regarding the unrequested upgrade of a trial account to a FULL account.

 

As this is a perfectly legal request with the guidelines of the CPR I expect you to fully comply with this request. Where you are unable to I request a full reason with supporting evidence.

 

Thank you

 

 

not 100?% on the CPR guideline but it looks correct to me as I do fully intend taking them to court to both recover the money they stole plus compensation for the extreme inconvenience and hardship.


DCA's - they have the same power as an infinite number of untrained chimps working on a script for Hamlet, but the chimps would probably at least get it right :D

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email bat and ball:

 

Thank you for your query

 

I can not find any record of a telephone call yesterday, if you can provide me with the name of the person you spoke to or account details if it is on a different accoutn I will look into this further for you.

 

The packages on this account were upgraded before the end of any trial period to specific packages rather than the automatic upgradfe at the end of the 3 month trial to a 2 yearly Plus pakcage. The only reason this would be done is if this was specifically reqeusted due to this there would not be any email sent about this as it was not an auotmated process.

 

 

 

 

 

My response:

 

Sir

 

I continue to be surprised by your company's seemingly cavalier attitude to this matter.

 

The phone call I made yesterday morning at approximately 09:30 was in direct relation to this account as the "gentleman" on the other end of he phone was well aware.

 

However, in the interests of keeping clarity, I currently have two email addresses registered with you graemeph70@googlemail.com and graemeph@hotmail.co.uk, so it may well have been entered under any domain or sub domain belonging to either of those email addresses.

 

If you so require I am happy to ask my phone provider to furnish exact details as to call time and length.

 

You also say that this upgrade was a specific request. However I can assure you that I have never made such a request. I would welcome any possible explanation as to why I would request such a thing if, as previously pointed out in prior tickets, the domain name was incorrect.

 

Saying that, not too long ago I doscovered a "keylogger" on my system, which came to my attention through an online gaming account being compromised.

 

If that is the case, and the cause, then I fail to see how I can be held accountable as all reasonable steps are taken to ensure my system security.

 

In view of this fact, I would be happy with a complete refund, the assurance that no further amounts will be debited, the closing of this and any other accounts as specified above.

 

Once these have been confirmed then I would be happy to drop my case against your company with the police, trading standards and any other body I may see fit to notify in the meantime.

 

Kind Regards


DCA's - they have the same power as an infinite number of untrained chimps working on a script for Hamlet, but the chimps would probably at least get it right :D

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Can someone explain this part of the UTCCR please?

 

©making an agreement binding on the consumer whereas provision of services by the seller or supplier is subject to a condition whose realisation depends on his own will alone;


DCA's - they have the same power as an infinite number of untrained chimps working on a script for Hamlet, but the chimps would probably at least get it right :D

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Never mind, result :D:D

 

Thank you for your query

 

This account has been cancelled and the payments taken for it have been refuned.

 

This is because the details you have put in for the domain are not valid and so the account should not have been activated. Please note the refund of the £117.48 may take a few days to show in your bank account.

 

With regards to the other account as far as we can tell from the system the accoutn was set up by yourself with your detaisl on the account. Due to this we will not close them down whilst they are in contract or refund any payments taken on them.


DCA's - they have the same power as an infinite number of untrained chimps working on a script for Hamlet, but the chimps would probably at least get it right :D

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Wow, I wish I had seen this a few days ago. This company streamline.net is the pits.

 

I tried to register a domain name with them and they took my cash but have not registered my domain name.... infact nothing happened at all apart from the invoice email and debit from my bank account. They are now ignoring my support ticket requests to know what is going on. I have since registered the same domain name with a different company and they had it up and running with email access within 30mins!

 

I've only been ripped off for £10.20, but that isn't the point!

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This 2011 judgement and legal advice based on it, could provide useful ammo. in many different ways . Give it a Google.

 

Office of Fair Trading v Ashbourne Management Services Ltd and others [2011] EWHC 1237 (Ch), 27 May 2011, Kitchin J.

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Streamline provide web hosting and is therefore an ISP. Consequently it would seem they are regulated by Ofcom. I believe Ofcom has ruled that from 31st Dec 2011, no new Automatic Rollover Contracts may be offered and existing ones must terminate by 31st Dec 2012. Hopefully, this will nix their current predatory practice.

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Web hosting and an ISP are different things. Although I would say the same reasoning behind the fairness applies here...


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Apparently, locutus is correct. Web hosting is not covered by Ofcom regulations. However, general consumer rights still apply and with a little more research, I found the latest from Office of Fair Trading, published 12 December, which does have relevance to contracts with companies like Streamline. Here is the main text:

 

Principles for use of Continuous Payment Authority

Introduction

A Continuous Payment Authority (CPA) authorises a business to withdraw sums from a customer's account without having to seek repeat authorisation for each payment. CPAs are often used to collect payments for the purchase of goods and services such as vehicle breakdown services, insurance policies, broadband and mobile phone services and magazine subscriptions.

The following principles are designed to assist businesses by indicating the core standards of behaviour which, in the OFT's view, should underpin CPA use to ensure fairness to consumers and/or compliance with the law.

This is not intended to be a comprehensive statement of the law in this area. Businesses are advised to familiarise themselves with the Financial Services Authority guidance on the Payment Services Regulations 2009 (PSRs) and - in the case of creditors collecting consumer credit debts - the OFT's revised guidance on debt collection.

General guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPRs) and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (UTCCRs), which are relevant in this area, and other consumer protection legislation, can be found in Business Advice.

 

Before contract

If a CPA is to be used, the business should prominently disclose this to potential customers as soon as possible. In particular, the scope of the agreed authority should be clear. The consumer should specifically agree to the amounts to be debited (or the basis on which these will be calculated), the timing/frequency of payment attempts, and the account to be debited. These should be documented appropriately and explained to the consumer.

In the case of third party accounts, the business should be satisfied that the third party has authorised use of their account.

Consumer consent to a CPA should not be assumed - such as through the use of opt-out provisions. The consumer must positively indicate their informed consent to the use of a CPA. For example, where a consumer is offered a free trial, after which payments will be taken, the consumer should be asked to agree to the actual liability before any payments are taken. Failure to do so may result in the contract being considered unenforceable, with the consumer being entitled to a refund of all payments made.

All relevant terms of the CPA agreement should be set out clearly and in plain, intelligible language, and brought prominently to the consumer's attention. They should not just be contained in 'terms and conditions'.

It is good practice to highlight the name that will appear on the customer's statement following payment.

Where the consumer has a cancellation right or there is a free trial period, the consumer should be given clear and prominent information on how to cancel and the associated procedures. The means of cancellation must be reasonable.

 

During the life of the contract

Any changes to the scope of the agreed authority, such as the amount or timing of payments, or the relevant account, should be made only if the contract allows for this, or the consumer expressly consents, and should be notified to the consumer before they take effect.

It is good practice to provide customers with either a brief statement each time a payment is taken or a summary annual statement at year end. The customer should be given reasonable prior notice of renewal of the contract. If a contract is being renewed for an additional fixed period this should be treated as a new contract for the purposes of disclosure and information regarding cancellation rights.

 

Cancellation of the contract

Businesses should ensure that customers are aware of any statutory or contractual right to cancel the CPA, or the underlying contract, or to cancel automatic renewal terms, and that they are clear about the process involved and alternative payment options.

The procedures for cancellation or amendment of a CPA should be reasonable and should not be subject to any unnecessary or unduly complex process.

Requests for cancellation should be responded to promptly, and no obstacles should be put in the way of a customer cancelling.

It is good practice to enable the customer to cancel using the same medium as was used for CPA sign-up (for example, if sign-up was online, there should be an option to cancel online).

If a consumer cancels the CPA, the business should stop attempting to take money from the consumer's account. No fee or penalty should be charged for the act of terminating a CPA itself (and any underlying contractual liability will be subject to the UTCCRs).

Businesses should be aware that in certain circumstances a minimum term period in a contract may be unenforceable under the UTCCRs, and in such cases attempts to enforce such a term may be a criminal offence under the CPRs (see press release High Court rules that terms in thousands of gym contracts are unfair, following OFT action, 27 May 2011).

Customers should not be misled regarding their rights to cancel. In particular, they should not be told they are required to contact the business before (or instead of) the payment service provider.[see note 4]

 

note 4. Under the PSRs, consumers can cancel any future transaction at any time up to close of business on the preceding day. The transaction can be cancelled either with the trader or the payment service provider (the customer's bank or card issuer). It is good practice to notify the trader, particularly where there may be an underlying contractual liability, but this is not a pre-condition for cancellation.

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Continuous Payment Authority refers to paying by credit/debit card and the company taking payments at later dates also. The "note 4." paragraph along with the ruling against Ashbourne should make any reasonable law abiding company stop these sharp practices... too bad there are so many companies that like to skirt close to the wind on these issue.... also the OFT have no real teeth to bite with when companies go against their "advice"


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I think it may be hard to get a company like Streamline to make a concession to a customer based on "fairness" guidelines. The customer would have to show the original contract is "unfair" based on the Ashbourne 2011 Court ruling of Kitchin On the other hand, Streamline has been and is still hounding customers for payments on what is now considered a sticky wicket. When I recently sought advice from Citizens Advice, I was more-or-less told by their uninformed volunteers that "Contract is King". Since the Court case of 211, this is no longer so. Yet, Streamline has no compunction in trying to force automatic renewal of a contract

 

1) when payment for renewal has been blocked by the subscriber

2) when no exit option was provided in the renewal notice

3) with making the subscriber pay for the full term of the contract in order terminate the contract

4) without making a reduction for early termination

5) with making intimidating references to debt collection and its affect on one's credit worthiness

 

Any one of these points, which fly in the face of OFT "advice", could sway a judge to rule against a claim for payment from a customer. So I hope readers of this blog will feel stronger in standing up for their consumer rights.

 

For further legal opinion on the Ashbourne 2011 Court ruling of Kitchin see uk.practicallaw.com/3-506-4863

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Cases like these will rarely see the inside of a court room tho. Streamline + DCAs are all mouth and no trousers, and ultimately know they will get a hiding if they take court action... and the customer refusing to pay has no reason to take court action as they are not owed any money.

 

What we really need is the overpaid qangos to get some teeth and some balls to fight unfairness, no leaving us to fend for ourselves when a big company decides it's a law unto its self!


If in doubt, contact a qualified insured legal professional (or my wife... she knows EVERYTHING)

 

Or send a cheque or postal order payable to Reclaim the Right Ltd.

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Click here if you fancy an email address that shows you mean business! (only £6 and that will really help CAG)

 

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