Durt vs ARC (Egg debt)

[Durt]

Right, I need a bit help here. My debt was recently moved from DLC to ARC since DLC obviously weren't getting the money in quick enough. ARC sent out the standard heavy handed letters, including a few on Trevor Munn headed paper threatening CCJ etc. I responded as recommended with a template CCA request (the original agreement was well before 2006), sending £1 on a postal order. ARC as expected sent it back telling me to get in touch with Egg, not them.

 

All according to plan so far.

 

I waited for ARC to send me another request for payment, to which I responded with one of the other template letters from this site pointing out that they are in breach of the CCA since they failed to respond to my request for an original agreement, and that I would consider any further contact to be harrassment. This is where it gets sticky.

 

Their next letter contained the following:

 

'Please note that ARC (Europe) Ltd is a debt collection "agent", acting in good faith on the instructions from a "disclosed" principal, namely Egg Banking Plc. We are therefore authorised to write to you in connection with the above matter and to instruct Solicitors in contemplation of Court Proceedings wghere we consider it appropriate to do so. Please note there has been no "assignment" of the debt from Egg Banking Plc to ARC (Europe) Ltd.

 

We have acted in accordance with our client's instructions and within current collection legislation and guidance. We reserve the write (sic) to produce this letter to any Tribunal'

 

I have till the 18th to respond before they take any further action, I need to know where I stand.

 

Cheers.

[Bazooka Boo]

The CCA request clearly states:

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

You could simply send them that in response, but you MUST make a formal complaint to the OFT & TS via http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/contact

 

If they are threatening you with legal/court action then hit them where it hurts and reply with a request under CPR regs for the info they will be relying on in the courts.

[Reepo]

Subbing - Just had my P/O back from ARC aswell , is it an Egg CC ?

[Guest HeftyHippo]

In addition, complain about their latest letter which says they are entitled to instruct solicitors. As they admit there has been no assignment, they cannot instruct solicitors, only the creditor can do that. Only a judge can decide the costs, so to state that they know the costs in advance is totally untrue - a judge can award costs against them for example. Stating that costs will be awarded against you, and what those costs are, is simply designed to intimidate.

 

The letter 'from' Munns solicitors probably says something like

 

"On instructions from our client ARC Europe... documentation will now be prepared for the issue of a claim against you in the Northampton County Court....

 

 

....We have been instructed to prepare a County Court Claim in ten days.....

 

 

If it is necessary to take this step you will be liable for court costs of £xxx"

 

In which case, complain about ARC authorising that letter which is incorrect for the reasons I already gave, AND complain to the Solicitor's Regulation Authority about the letter 'writen' by Munn, for the same reasons - the letter is untrue, inaccurate, deliberately misleading and brings the legal profession (don't laugh) into disrepute and damages the public trust in the profession.

 

I know a couple of others have made that complain to the SRA in the last few weeks, they acknowledged mine this week, so another one will help convince the SRA to stop Munn.

 

You might also add that you suspect Munn allows companies like ARC to print their own letters on his paper, in which case, Munn has either allowed his name and profession to be used in a misleading way or does not supervise or audit the use of his paperwork properly. Either way, it is Munns responsibility and he carries the can. You may also ask their opinion on the practice of their profession renting it's name out like that.

 

The SRA is at

8 Dormer Place

Leamington Spa

Warwickshire

CV32 5AE

[Guest HeftyHippo]

ps

The OFT will say they note your comments but cannot act. Send a copy of your complaint to your MP, and in your letter to the OFT, ask specificity, why companies in this sector ignore the OFT guidelines so freely, and what enforcement action they take/are taking to protect the consumer. They wont want to answer that, but with a letter to your MP, they wont want to ignore it either.

 

Keep your letters, with slight editing, you can be using them regularly against everyone

[Durt]

Reepo, yes, it was a credit card.

 

Everyone else, thank you for your fast replies. Will get a letter out tomorrow and see if I can put the willies up them.

 

EDIT:

To Hefty, I know that the Trevor Munn letters are not generated by the solicitor, I used to work for a DCA and i saw how they play VERY fast and loose with their solicitor's writing paper. The fact that the postmarks and barcodes on the paper are the same kinda confirms it (this is true for ARC, DLC and global debt recovery).

[Bazooka Boo]

Warrants a complaint to the SRA even more so!

[twoman]

Hi Durt,

Had exactley the same letter as you had in post 1.

I reported them to TS via consumer direct and they are now subject to a TS investigation.

My local TS officer has even put a letter together for me to send to them which i have done.

They are very aggressive and obnoxious and talk to you as though you have just trod in something....take the advice on here,you will not go wrong.

He pointed out to me that on their website that they are affiliated too the CSA but according to my TS officer they were not following the protocols of the CSA and this is why they are being looked into.

[Bazooka Boo]

Yep toss a complaint into the CSA aswell, the more complaints the better.

 

http://www.csa-uk.com/page/codes-and-standards

[Durt]

Letters of complaint gone off to CSA and OFT. We shall see what happens now.

[Bazooka Boo]

OFT won't look into individual complaints so you'll get a letter back saying to that effect, however they will add it to the ever growing pile and once it tips the scales they'll act.

[Guest HeftyHippo]

Letters of complaint gone off to CSA and OFT. We shall see what happens now.

 

and the SRA? cut off the ability for them to make unfair legal threats and a lot of their power is gone. CSA is useless, they will pass on your complaint to the offender and ask them to address it. They won't check if they do anything, and certainly won't make sure they address it properly. Complaining to them is only worthwhile if you are willing to let it look like youve been fobbed off and then complain to the FSO about the complaint not being dealt with, AND complain to the OFT and your MP that there is no compliance control in the industry. Going to Trading Standards is not likely to produce any strong action - they are short on manpower and would rather deal with a more obvious, tangiable offence such as improper labelling, short measures, unsafe good etc.

 

In the end, you have to complain to everyone and keep asking the powers that be why so called protection to the consumer in this field is so ineffectual

[Durt]

Okay, another letter in the offing.

[Durt]

Just got a response from Consumer Direct, here is the interesting part

 

"Thank you for contacting Consumer Direct Wales.

 

From a legal point of view, you can make a formal request for a copy of your executed agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and enclosed a postal order for £1. This request can only be made to the trader with whom you have the credit agreement, not the debt collectors."

 

Now I'm a touch confused. My understanding of that section of the CCA was that after a debt was assigned to a DCA they would have the responsibility of responding to this request. Any advice?

[Bazooka Boo]

Yes it seems CD Wales are a tad confused also.

 

A CCA request goes to whoever is harassing you for money, they then in turn will need to forward your request onto said creditor (OC) who in turn either send you the agreement direct or through their chosen threat monkey, quite often some DCA's will try the 'we don't own the debt, therefore you need to send it direct yourself' which is a stalling technique used by the less well educated DCA's.

Maybe you could reply to CD and put them right on the matter?

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

[Durt]

Update, after receiving the "we will proceed without notice" letter I have heard nothing more from ARC on this matter. Of all the people in this thread HH seems to have been in the position most similar to mine, any news on your case?

 

I guess it's wishful thinking to think they have gone away, but from my own experience in the industry, we had highly intractable debtors who were written off as lost causes. We would send them a letter every 6 months in the end, just in a speculative way to see if they would finally pay.

[Guest HeftyHippo]

I've no news. My complaint is with SRA about the solicitor, OFT has been informed about ARC, my MP is taking the case up with the OFT. Freepost address I used for OFT may not have been accurate so sent it again by recorded. They've had that complaint for about 10 days. A bit early to complain about their lack of response, but I'm watching the clock on that.

 

ARC can't take action if they don't own the debt, and any threat to do so is against OFT guidlines

 

My letter to my MP states that NO ONE pays attention to the guidelines, and they are broken as a matter of routine by all DCAs, and the OFT are doing nothing about it.

 

ARC have gone very quiet since I complained to them. Letting them have the 8 weeks, and then complaint goes to FSO, with follow up to MP and OFT highlighting that they just have no respect for their obligations.

[Bazooka Boo]

Agreed, the more complaints the merrier, we will either end up with a more professional honest, law abiding DCA or they will simply be forced to go further underground in their mundane efforts.

[Guest HeftyHippo]

similar thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?257131-DLC-Egg&p=3106476&viewfull=1#post3106476