Jump to content

  • Tweets

  • Posts

  • Our picks

    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
      • 49 replies
    • Oven repair. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/427690-oven-repair/&do=findComment&comment=5073391
      • 49 replies
    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
        • Thanks
      • 3 replies
    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
        • Thanks
        • Like

BC Charges ***WON with Compound Contractual Int't***


Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 3454 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 126
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Judge in Brandon appeal ruled that charges are OK.

 

yes, and the pox on him! :)

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Paras 43 to 47 refer to penalty charges being part of the overall sum claimed and not, as far as I see, the issue of penalty charges in relation to the DN itself.

 

Of course, in the appeal judge's summary, he concludes that penalty charges are liquidated damages and not penalty charges. He seems to be on his own with that line of thinking and BC still refund these charges when pressed.

 

:-)

Edited by slick132
typo

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I have received my court case number, it was served on 30 november 2010 and barclays have until 14 december to reply, is there anyway i can find out what is going on with my case?

 

Also the error with my schedule of charges where i entered one wrong digit could i phone the court to change this?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi linz,

 

See my post #60. Write to the court, quoting your Claim Number, pointing out the error and ask for the correct a/c no. to be noted on your claim file.

 

Send a copy of this letter to Barclays Litigation Team at their HQ at Churchill Place, London.

 

The court will let you know when B's file their defence. There's nothing further to do until then.

 

Make sure you are preparing your Court Bundle for when it is needed by the court. Make a file on your PC and put together all the stuff you'll include.

 

See Fenris's case about how much paper was used. Make sure you have at least 500 sheets in case you need to print out your own (3rd) copy as well. Spare ink cartridges too !

 

8)

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Barclays have until the 14th of december which is tommorow to respond so far i have heard nothing back from the courts or barclays. Should i complete the judgement section that i received from the courts and hand it in tommorow or the day after? thats assuming barclays dont respond tommorow.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Linz,

 

The courts are unlikely to grant you a Judgement against BC so close to the AQ deadline, particularly when the postal service is recovering from recent bad weather and today is apparently the Post Office's busiest postal day of the year !

 

BC usually file their AQ's close to the deadline or even late, but their sol'rs will say there's a reason and they get away with it. :evil:

 

My advice would be to wait a week. If no AQ has been rec'd by 21st, apply for Judgement.

 

If you get Judgement now, Barclays may object and seek a Set-Aside, which will just delay you being paid.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I phoned the courts today and they have not received any response from barclays, but i will wait until the 21st before i file a judgement.

 

Eventhough barclays have passed the deadline for a reponse, in terms of a late response whats the latest date any court would accept for any given reason? I have a feeling when i do apply for a judgement barclays will say they never received the papers because it was sent first class not recorded delivery and the postal services have been quite bad the last few weeks so they will probably use the excuse they havent received it and it might have been lost.

 

From what i have read i was expecting barclays to respond just seems a bit unsual for them not to respond within the deadline.

Link to post
Share on other sites

HI Linz,

 

The courts NEVER use Recorded Delivery and assume that anything sent out is delivered.

 

The bank's legal reps often get away with murder because they are professional (???) practitioners who would never fib about having overlooked something.

 

8)

Edited by slick132
typo

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

So what difference does it make if i sent the court the judgement part now rather than next tuesday? i mean like you said the solicitors will get away with the excuse they will give to the courts so by sending the judgement early at least they will aknowledge the claim and respond rather than wait until tuesday and then wait for barlcays to respond?

 

Sorry if i sound confusing im just trying to understand the process of the courts.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Linz,

 

You're not sounding confusing at all.

 

What you say makes sense and, if you want to apply for judgement now, go for it.

 

I don't think it can do any harm.

 

Good luck ! 8-)

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Hi,

 

I have had a reply from the courts and barclays have filed a defense. Slick.... I didnt apply for a judgement agianst barclays in the end eventhough they did miss the deadline. I have included their response below for someone to read and see if there is anything dodgy along with the allocation questionaire i have to fill in. Now i havent filled in the allocation questionaire as i dont want to put in the wrong information so if someone can tell me what to write in each section i would be gratefull, i am not being lazy just dont want to mess up my claim by imputting the wrong information.

 

 

06-01-2011230337.jpg

06-01-2011230507.jpg

06-01-2011230648.jpg

06-01-2011230752.jpg

06-01-2011230917.jpg

06-01-2011231059.jpg

06-01-2011231159.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Linz,

 

I'm concerned about item 1 of their defence - please confirm who you named as the Defendant.

 

See here for a guide to completing the AQ. It includes the Draft Directions that you will ask the court to adopt - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?565-Allocation-Questionnaires-A-guide-to-completion

 

All the stuff you need should be in the library. Read it thoroughly and come back with any Q's.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I have looked at my N1 claim form, and for the section where you have to state the defendant this is exactly what i put:

 

Barclays Bank PLC t/a Barclaycard

1 Churchill Place

London

E14 5HP

 

Is this correct? why do you think they have stated that in item 1?

 

A few sections i am unsure about and the link you gave me doesnt explain.

 

Section A settlement: Would you like to use the free small claims mediation service provided by her majestys courts service, to help you settle your claim with the other party, YES OR NO?

 

Section G is really confusing im just a little worried about getting this wrong, can you explain a little further what i should put in the box?

Link to post
Share on other sites

HI Linz,

 

You have named them just fine in the claim. Why have they put this at item 1 - because they don't take as much care with such claims as we do !!

 

It really doesn't matter to them that they just use a copy from another case's defence. And that's because they are unlikely to defend the case properly when you have filed your evidence..

 

The answer to Mediation is NO. The reason is here although you don't need to write to anyone about this for now - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/83044-mediation-bad-idea.html#post742517

 

Re Section G on the AQ, all you need is in the link above although it helps to know what you DON'T need to include.

 

Print off the Draft Directions. The bit where it says QUOTE, and starts with "In the XXXXXX County Court.....;" and ends at "..... the Defence will be struck out without further order." Fill in your court name and claim number.

 

I'll dig out an example and send to you later. 8-)

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Linz

 

You and I are pursuing banks through the courts at roughly the same time (I am waiting for a copy of Natwest's defence as we speak)

 

It seems to me they defend along the lines of

 

1. The charges were in the Terms & Conditions therefore they are legal

2. They say the interest claimed is wrong (always ignoring that it is interest in restitution)

3. They also say charges over 6 years old cant be claimed back as statute barred.

 

However I did notice in that defence you posted up, in section 14, they seem to be saying:

 

"Even if we lose this case on the grounds the charges were unlawful, we reserve the right to offset our losses, and these may not be limited to the value of the actual charges"

 

It does rather beg the question about how they would quantify their losses, but I hadnt seen that paragraph in other bank defences I had seen, and wonder what more legal minded

brains than mine would make of it.

Card 1 - Charges reclaim £464 + Interest...ongoing

Card 2 - Charges reclaim £520 + Interest...ongoing

Card 3 - Charges reclaim £396 + £1179 Imterest **WON**

Card 4 - Charges reclaim £296 + £147 Interest **WON**

------------------------------------------------------------

4 x CCA requests

1 received.....Blank Application Form

1 received.....Terms & Conditions

1 received.....Sent agreement relating to a previous card :confused:

1 response....Have lost the agreement :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Linz,

 

Further to my earlier post, here's a link that should help you - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?53570-New-strategy-for-Allocation-Questionnaires&p=482190&viewfull=1#post482190

 

The thread starts with the Draft Directions which you've seen already. And GaryH's examples show:-

 

1. Firstly, the text for the additional sheet that you'll enclose with the AQ and the Draft Directions.

 

2. What to write in box G of the AQ.

 

Re Still Surviving's comments above about the Barclays Defence, item 14 of the defence is rather ironic. It says if we (Barclays) can't charge the penalty charges (and have to repay them), please can we charge whatever loss we actually incurred. Now THIS is what we've said they should do all along - charge the debtor only what your failure to pay cost the bank. And this has been estimated to be perhaps a max of £1.50 per transgression.

 

I don't think their defence is anything to worry about as it's likely to be the last submission they make in relation to your court claim against them. They haven't yet filed evidence in support of a claim brought against them for penalty charges.

 

8-)

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, thank you for replying back.

 

After reading the link you sent slick and i am starting to understand the process, just to make sure i will be attaching the correct info with my AQ, could you double check to see what i am going to attach with my AQ is correct?

 

 

In the XXXXXX county courticon

Claim number XXXXXX

 

 

 

 

 

Between

 

XXXXXXXX - Claimant

 

and

 

 

XXXXX - Defendant

 

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

 

* a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

 

* b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

 

* c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

 

* d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

 

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

 

* a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

 

* b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

 

* c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

 

* d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

 

* e) Any witness statements.

 

* f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

 

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

 

 

After reading the link people have sugested to include the following, but there are two that i found and im not sure which one to include:

 

1)

 

 

You -v- Bank Plc

Claim No:*******

 

 

 

N149/N150 Allocation Questionnaire

 

 

 

Section G/H - other information

 

If the court is in agreement, it is respectfully suggested that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

I believe the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute, and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

 

If the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, I would contend that it is incumbent upon it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are now routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, I believe the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, I would respectfully request that this claim is allocated to the small claims track, and estimate that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

 

 

 

 

2)

 

 

You -v- Bank Plc

Claim No:*******

 

 

 

N149/N150 Allocation Questionnaire

 

 

 

Section G/H - other information

 

If the court is in agreement, the Claimant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The Claimant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

- The actual loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a contractual service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is incumbent upon it to disclose such information.

 

Additionally, the Claimant is aware that the proposed directions are now routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Willesden and Mansfield County Courts.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Linz,

 

Personally, I'd uses GaryH's example, ie the first and shorter version of the 2 you've shown.

 

Be aware that, if the court agrees to use your Draft Directions, you have just 14 days to File and Serve your evidence. You must therefore ensure that you have it all stored in a file, ready to access and print.

 

You'll need to do 2 copies of the court bundle initially - the 3rd can wait in case you need it for yourself if you go into court. So have at least a full ream of paper and ink refills as each bundle will run to 100 to 200 sheets of paper.

 

8-)

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Out of courtesy, you can send a copy of your AQ and attachments to BC if you wish, although you should not expect the same in return.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I handed in the allocation questionaire today at my local court. Just to double check i have handed in the right stuff can someone confirm this.

 

1) Allocation questionaire

2) Section G/H from Garyh example

3) Draft Directions

 

 

Also my deadline for the AQ was 15th of january, what are the next steps now? what will the courts do now and do barclays have to fill in an AQ with the same deadline as mine?

Link to post
Share on other sites

BC have to file their AQ by the same deadline although they often leave it until the last minute or even file it late. The court will invariably accept it regardless.

 

Have you got your Court Bundle prepared in case the Draft Directions are used by the court.

 

8-)

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

No i havent got the court bundle prepared yet, i have been looking at previous posts from you where you have given me links but they dont seem to work anymore.

 

As a rough guide can you tell me what i need to include in my court bundle along with links please?

 

Hi

i managed to find the court bundle in the library

but the link for the court bundle is not working and giving me the following error message

"Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator"

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Linz,

 

There may still be probs with the link but I don't want this to delay your progress.

 

I'll therefore send the court bundle zip file, that I have, to you by email.

 

You have email !

 

I'll see if we can get this court bundle link working, once and for all.

 

But, in the meantime, you should be able to get working on it.

 

8)

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...