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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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BC Charges ***WON with Compound Contractual Int't***


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Judge in Brandon appeal ruled that charges are OK.

 

yes, and the pox on him! :)

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Paras 43 to 47 refer to penalty charges being part of the overall sum claimed and not, as far as I see, the issue of penalty charges in relation to the DN itself.

 

Of course, in the appeal judge's summary, he concludes that penalty charges are liquidated damages and not penalty charges. He seems to be on his own with that line of thinking and BC still refund these charges when pressed.

 

:-)

Edited by slick132
typo

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Hi,

 

I have received my court case number, it was served on 30 november 2010 and barclays have until 14 december to reply, is there anyway i can find out what is going on with my case?

 

Also the error with my schedule of charges where i entered one wrong digit could i phone the court to change this?

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Hi linz,

 

See my post #60. Write to the court, quoting your Claim Number, pointing out the error and ask for the correct a/c no. to be noted on your claim file.

 

Send a copy of this letter to Barclays Litigation Team at their HQ at Churchill Place, London.

 

The court will let you know when B's file their defence. There's nothing further to do until then.

 

Make sure you are preparing your Court Bundle for when it is needed by the court. Make a file on your PC and put together all the stuff you'll include.

 

See Fenris's case about how much paper was used. Make sure you have at least 500 sheets in case you need to print out your own (3rd) copy as well. Spare ink cartridges too !

 

8)

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Barclays have until the 14th of december which is tommorow to respond so far i have heard nothing back from the courts or barclays. Should i complete the judgement section that i received from the courts and hand it in tommorow or the day after? thats assuming barclays dont respond tommorow.

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Hi Linz,

 

The courts are unlikely to grant you a Judgement against BC so close to the AQ deadline, particularly when the postal service is recovering from recent bad weather and today is apparently the Post Office's busiest postal day of the year !

 

BC usually file their AQ's close to the deadline or even late, but their sol'rs will say there's a reason and they get away with it. :evil:

 

My advice would be to wait a week. If no AQ has been rec'd by 21st, apply for Judgement.

 

If you get Judgement now, Barclays may object and seek a Set-Aside, which will just delay you being paid.

 

:-)

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Hi,

 

I phoned the courts today and they have not received any response from barclays, but i will wait until the 21st before i file a judgement.

 

Eventhough barclays have passed the deadline for a reponse, in terms of a late response whats the latest date any court would accept for any given reason? I have a feeling when i do apply for a judgement barclays will say they never received the papers because it was sent first class not recorded delivery and the postal services have been quite bad the last few weeks so they will probably use the excuse they havent received it and it might have been lost.

 

From what i have read i was expecting barclays to respond just seems a bit unsual for them not to respond within the deadline.

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HI Linz,

 

The courts NEVER use Recorded Delivery and assume that anything sent out is delivered.

 

The bank's legal reps often get away with murder because they are professional (???) practitioners who would never fib about having overlooked something.

 

8)

Edited by slick132
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Hi,

 

So what difference does it make if i sent the court the judgement part now rather than next tuesday? i mean like you said the solicitors will get away with the excuse they will give to the courts so by sending the judgement early at least they will aknowledge the claim and respond rather than wait until tuesday and then wait for barlcays to respond?

 

Sorry if i sound confusing im just trying to understand the process of the courts.

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Hi Linz,

 

You're not sounding confusing at all.

 

What you say makes sense and, if you want to apply for judgement now, go for it.

 

I don't think it can do any harm.

 

Good luck ! 8-)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi,

 

I have had a reply from the courts and barclays have filed a defense. Slick.... I didnt apply for a judgement agianst barclays in the end eventhough they did miss the deadline. I have included their response below for someone to read and see if there is anything dodgy along with the allocation questionaire i have to fill in. Now i havent filled in the allocation questionaire as i dont want to put in the wrong information so if someone can tell me what to write in each section i would be gratefull, i am not being lazy just dont want to mess up my claim by imputting the wrong information.

 

 

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Hi Linz,

 

I'm concerned about item 1 of their defence - please confirm who you named as the Defendant.

 

See here for a guide to completing the AQ. It includes the Draft Directions that you will ask the court to adopt - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?565-Allocation-Questionnaires-A-guide-to-completion

 

All the stuff you need should be in the library. Read it thoroughly and come back with any Q's.

 

:-)

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Hi,

 

I have looked at my N1 claim form, and for the section where you have to state the defendant this is exactly what i put:

 

Barclays Bank PLC t/a Barclaycard

1 Churchill Place

London

E14 5HP

 

Is this correct? why do you think they have stated that in item 1?

 

A few sections i am unsure about and the link you gave me doesnt explain.

 

Section A settlement: Would you like to use the free small claims mediation service provided by her majestys courts service, to help you settle your claim with the other party, YES OR NO?

 

Section G is really confusing im just a little worried about getting this wrong, can you explain a little further what i should put in the box?

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HI Linz,

 

You have named them just fine in the claim. Why have they put this at item 1 - because they don't take as much care with such claims as we do !!

 

It really doesn't matter to them that they just use a copy from another case's defence. And that's because they are unlikely to defend the case properly when you have filed your evidence..

 

The answer to Mediation is NO. The reason is here although you don't need to write to anyone about this for now - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/83044-mediation-bad-idea.html#post742517

 

Re Section G on the AQ, all you need is in the link above although it helps to know what you DON'T need to include.

 

Print off the Draft Directions. The bit where it says QUOTE, and starts with "In the XXXXXX County Court.....;" and ends at "..... the Defence will be struck out without further order." Fill in your court name and claim number.

 

I'll dig out an example and send to you later. 8-)

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Hello Linz

 

You and I are pursuing banks through the courts at roughly the same time (I am waiting for a copy of Natwest's defence as we speak)

 

It seems to me they defend along the lines of

 

1. The charges were in the Terms & Conditions therefore they are legal

2. They say the interest claimed is wrong (always ignoring that it is interest in restitution)

3. They also say charges over 6 years old cant be claimed back as statute barred.

 

However I did notice in that defence you posted up, in section 14, they seem to be saying:

 

"Even if we lose this case on the grounds the charges were unlawful, we reserve the right to offset our losses, and these may not be limited to the value of the actual charges"

 

It does rather beg the question about how they would quantify their losses, but I hadnt seen that paragraph in other bank defences I had seen, and wonder what more legal minded

brains than mine would make of it.

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Hi Linz,

 

Further to my earlier post, here's a link that should help you - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?53570-New-strategy-for-Allocation-Questionnaires&p=482190&viewfull=1#post482190

 

The thread starts with the Draft Directions which you've seen already. And GaryH's examples show:-

 

1. Firstly, the text for the additional sheet that you'll enclose with the AQ and the Draft Directions.

 

2. What to write in box G of the AQ.

 

Re Still Surviving's comments above about the Barclays Defence, item 14 of the defence is rather ironic. It says if we (Barclays) can't charge the penalty charges (and have to repay them), please can we charge whatever loss we actually incurred. Now THIS is what we've said they should do all along - charge the debtor only what your failure to pay cost the bank. And this has been estimated to be perhaps a max of £1.50 per transgression.

 

I don't think their defence is anything to worry about as it's likely to be the last submission they make in relation to your court claim against them. They haven't yet filed evidence in support of a claim brought against them for penalty charges.

 

8-)

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Hi, thank you for replying back.

 

After reading the link you sent slick and i am starting to understand the process, just to make sure i will be attaching the correct info with my AQ, could you double check to see what i am going to attach with my AQ is correct?

 

 

In the XXXXXX county courticon

Claim number XXXXXX

 

 

 

 

 

Between

 

XXXXXXXX - Claimant

 

and

 

 

XXXXX - Defendant

 

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

 

* a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

 

* b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

 

* c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

 

* d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

 

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

 

* a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

 

* b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

 

* c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

 

* d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

 

* e) Any witness statements.

 

* f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

 

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

 

 

After reading the link people have sugested to include the following, but there are two that i found and im not sure which one to include:

 

1)

 

 

You -v- Bank Plc

Claim No:*******

 

 

 

N149/N150 Allocation Questionnaire

 

 

 

Section G/H - other information

 

If the court is in agreement, it is respectfully suggested that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

I believe the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute, and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

 

If the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, I would contend that it is incumbent upon it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are now routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, I believe the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, I would respectfully request that this claim is allocated to the small claims track, and estimate that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

 

 

 

 

2)

 

 

You -v- Bank Plc

Claim No:*******

 

 

 

N149/N150 Allocation Questionnaire

 

 

 

Section G/H - other information

 

If the court is in agreement, the Claimant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The Claimant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

- The actual loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a contractual service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is incumbent upon it to disclose such information.

 

Additionally, the Claimant is aware that the proposed directions are now routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Willesden and Mansfield County Courts.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

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Hi Linz,

 

Personally, I'd uses GaryH's example, ie the first and shorter version of the 2 you've shown.

 

Be aware that, if the court agrees to use your Draft Directions, you have just 14 days to File and Serve your evidence. You must therefore ensure that you have it all stored in a file, ready to access and print.

 

You'll need to do 2 copies of the court bundle initially - the 3rd can wait in case you need it for yourself if you go into court. So have at least a full ream of paper and ink refills as each bundle will run to 100 to 200 sheets of paper.

 

8-)

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Out of courtesy, you can send a copy of your AQ and attachments to BC if you wish, although you should not expect the same in return.

 

:-)

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Hi,

 

I handed in the allocation questionaire today at my local court. Just to double check i have handed in the right stuff can someone confirm this.

 

1) Allocation questionaire

2) Section G/H from Garyh example

3) Draft Directions

 

 

Also my deadline for the AQ was 15th of january, what are the next steps now? what will the courts do now and do barclays have to fill in an AQ with the same deadline as mine?

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BC have to file their AQ by the same deadline although they often leave it until the last minute or even file it late. The court will invariably accept it regardless.

 

Have you got your Court Bundle prepared in case the Draft Directions are used by the court.

 

8-)

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Hi,

 

No i havent got the court bundle prepared yet, i have been looking at previous posts from you where you have given me links but they dont seem to work anymore.

 

As a rough guide can you tell me what i need to include in my court bundle along with links please?

 

Hi

i managed to find the court bundle in the library

but the link for the court bundle is not working and giving me the following error message

"Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator"

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Hi Linz,

 

There may still be probs with the link but I don't want this to delay your progress.

 

I'll therefore send the court bundle zip file, that I have, to you by email.

 

You have email !

 

I'll see if we can get this court bundle link working, once and for all.

 

But, in the meantime, you should be able to get working on it.

 

8)

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