Parking Ticket NOT filled out correctly

[DontWantToPay2]

Hi there,

 

I need some advice please. I received a parking ticket on Saturday just gone. However, two bit of information have been ommited from the warden. who operates on behalf of Cannock Chase Council.

 

The ticket has the following information in the following order - personal details ommitted.

 

Contravention Code: 82

Date of contravention: 07/08/10

Location: Multi Storey levels 1-2 Car Park. Time 4:20

Vehicle Registration: (I'm not inserting this)

Vehicle Make: Toyata. Colour: Silver

Tax disc: (I'm not inserting this) Expiry: 28/02/2011

Observed from: 14:17 Observed to: 14:20

Pay & display Ticket No:

Expiry Time:

 

Notice how Pay & display Ticket Number was not filled out & expiry Time. Also the observation time was only 3 minutes. Do i have an appeal case?

 

Many thanks for your help.

[green_and_mean]

On the grounds you stated....no

[DontWantToPay2]

Oh - that's a shame. So even though there is no evidence of a ticket number or or expiry time that doesn't give me any options for challenging this?

[green_and_mean]

Its not needed on the PCN however some evidence would be needed such as the officers notes or photos of your ticket, if you think they don't have them you have nothing to lose in appealling within the 14 day period.

[DontWantToPay2]

cool - thanks for your help - i dont think he took a photo of the car. However, he may have done that on first pass of the car But thank you so much for your help. It is very much appreciated. I have only ever had one other parking ticket in 30 years of driving but I begrudge the phenomenal ammount for parking. I never grumble about the cost of parking - although I do about fuel. But parking tickets are rediculous. Once again - thank you for your help.

[lamma]

post up pictures of the PCN - both sides.

there could be other grounds. G&M limited his response to just the points you raised which are not an exhaustive list.

[DontWantToPay2]

ok - will do. My wife has my phone at the moment and wont be back till after lunch. Ill then take a couple of snaps and post it back up here. What are you thinking of?

[lamma]

I am thinking that we need to see the PCN to check it. they are not all perfect by any means.

check the council's website for its parking policy. And see if you can dig up the Off-Street Order for the car park.park as they are often rubbish.

[Bigdebtor]

Did the PCN have a Date of Issue? It needs that as well as Date of Contravention. I would also query why the PCN has a field for other information but that info was left blank.

[green_and_mean]

Did the PCN have a Date of Issue? It needs that as well as Date of Contravention. I would also query why the PCN has a field for other information but that info was left blank.

 

I do love it when people come on here have the cheek to slag me off then give someone totally incorrect and cr~p advice!

Date of issue has not been needed since the TMA 2004 was introduced and replaced by date of service.

[dragonkeeper]

I do love it when people come on here have the cheek to slag me off then give someone totally incorrect and cr~p advice!

Date of issue has not been needed since the TMA 2004 was introduced and replaced by date of service.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

dk

[starfarer]

Is it possible that you never had P&D ticket displayed? CEO either is new or really slow to print PCN in 3 minutes!! Usually anyone is done within 1 mins. OP not clear whether the P&D ticket was actually expired at the time of issue PCN.

 

As for the 3 mins mentioned, that's a grace period ie the vehicle is already on contravention but councils chooses not to issue PCN. Different to observation where it is needed to determine contravention. That's how I understand reading here in forum.

[Bigdebtor]

I do love it when people come on here have the cheek to slag me off then give someone totally incorrect and cr~p advice!

Date of issue has not been needed since the TMA 2004 was introduced and replaced by date of service.

 

I was referring to the most recent PCN which I had the misfortune to get. It does not have "Date of Service" as a field, which you seem to think it should have. Does that mean I can appeal it as not complying with RTA 1991 (As Amended) ?

[dragonkeeper]

 

I was referring to the most recent PCN which I had the misfortune to get. It does not have "Date of Service" as a field, which you seem to think it should have. Does that mean I can appeal it as not complying with RTA 1991 (As Amended) ?

 

 

 

Bigdebtor I think your need to start your own thread about your PCN and not hi-jack this OP's thread.

 

 

regards

dk

[Bigdebtor]

I am not seeking advice on my pcn and am not hijacking this thread.

 

I was trying to help the OP and had earlier queried if there was any date showing when the ticket was issued as it had not been listed by the OP as a term present on the pcn. This specific post was simply replying to an earlier post which suggested pcn's should now have a "Date of Service" field shown to be valid and pointing out that I have a recent one which does not have this specific field name and as an aside queried if this was valid.

 

To get back to helping the OP I make the point that I believe pcn's need two dates shown - I perhaps wrongly labelled one as "Date of Issue" and was told - not too politely - that it should now be called "Date of Service".

 

The relevant point is that I only saw a "Date of Contravention" and did not see any "Date of Issue", "Date of Service" or "Date of Notice" given when the OP stated in his first post the fields present on his pcn - and therefore suggest that this perhaps makes the pcn invalid as a second date is needed - the actual description of the second date (but that field specifying when the pcn is given, issued or served - whatever is the correct term) is perhaps less relevant than the complete absence of such a term no matter how described.

[green_and_mean]

the actual description of the second date (but that field specifying when the pcn is given, issued or served - whatever is the correct term) is perhaps less relevant than the complete absence of such a term no matter how described.

 

The actual description of the term is not less relevant a PCN can be issued on a Monday and then served on a Tuesday a whole day later, served and issued are two completely different things.

The OP hasn't posted for over a month and this thread was dug up by you for whatever reason, so until we see the actual PCN any further discussion is pointless.

[Bigdebtor]

Can you please confirm (or otherwise) the point about whether the absence of a second date field (howsoever described) renders the pcn invalid or not - and if it is present does it have to state "Date of Service"?

 

People don't need to be posting to threads but may be reviewing them - and be helped by them - so in the interests of clarity can you please answer the question if you know the answer?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

I was referring to the most recent PCN which I had the misfortune to get. It does not have "Date of Service" as a field, which you seem to think it should have. Does that mean I can appeal it as not complying with RTA 1991 (As Amended) ?

 

I am not seeking advice on my pcn and am not hijacking this thread.

 

Is it just me who sees an inconsistency here?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

I was referring to the most recent PCN which I had the misfortune to get. It does not have "Date of Service" as a field, which you seem to think it should have. Does that mean I can appeal it as not complying with RTA 1991 (As Amended) ?

 

The OP's PCN was issued in England and therefore was not issued under the RTA 1991 (As Amended).

 

The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007 apply under which a PCN served by a Civil Enforcement Officer must contain:

 

(a) the date on which the notice is served;

(b) the name of the enforcement authority;

© the registration mark of the vehicle involved in the alleged contravention;

(d) the date and the time at which the alleged contravention occurred;

(e) the grounds on which the civil enforcement officer serving the notice believes that a penalty charge is payable;

(f) the amount of the penalty charge;

(g) that the penalty charge must be paid not later than the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice was served;

(h) that if the penalty charge is paid not later than the last day of the period of 14 days beginning with the date on which the notice is served, the penalty charge will be reduced by the amount of any applicable discount;

(i) the manner in which the penalty charge must be paid; and

(j) that if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the period of 28 days referred to in subparagraph (g), a notice to owner may be served by the enforcement authority on the owner of the vehicle.

[Bigdebtor]

BtB

 

Thank you - so the date on which the notice is served must be contained. This seems to be absent if the OP has indeed posted all the details completely. That is all I wanted to know - and the point I was trying to make. It is a pity the OP could not have been alerted to this possibility on Day 1 or soon after by others who were reviewing this thread then.

 

I have paid my own pcn (Glasgow) since I did overstay the agreed time - and was not seeking to hijack the thread but simply using it to seek further clarity - which you have now provided.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

BtB

 

Thank you - so the date on which the notice is served must be contained. This seems to be absent if the OP has indeed posted all the details completely. That is all I wanted to know - and the point I was trying to make. It is a pity the OP could not have been alerted to this possibility on Day 1 or soon after by others who were reviewing this thread then.

 

I have paid my own pcn (Glasgow) since I did overstay the agreed time - and was not seeking to hijack the thread but simply using it to seek further clarity - which you have now provided.

 

There are two points you are missing. Firstly that the OP was alerted to this matter in two posts on 9 August and asked to post up images of the PCN. The OP said they would do so but hasn't. This was the last activity on this thread until you chipped in.

 

The second point is that your PCN was in Glasgow which even those of us with little experience and expertise know is in Scotland where different regulations apply.

[Bigdebtor]

You have a fair point on point 1 - I fully accept OP's do need to help themselves by providing as much info as they have - but they may well just give up when faced with insults and rudeness. Perhaps if the OP had been alerted earlier and more directly as to the possibility of some key elements being missed off his pcn - and therefore the huge importance of posting the pcn up - to confirm this or otherwise he might have done so. Perhaps he stopped looking at the thread after G&M's first negative post?

 

Point 2 is not a relevant point as I was never seeking advice - just trying to clarify point 1.

 

I accept that further posts on this thread will probably not help the OP in this specific case due to the time which ahs now elapsed - and would therefore like to drop this now as I believe I have made all the points I want to do on this thread (and in the parking forum in general).

[green_and_mean]

BtB

 

Thank you - so the date on which the notice is served must be contained. This seems to be absent ifthe OP has indeed posted all the details completely. That is all I wanted to know - and the point I was trying to make. It is a pity the OP could not have been alerted to this possibility on Day 1 or soon after by others who were reviewing this thread then.

 

I have paid my own pcn (Glasgow) since I did overstay the agreed time - and was not seeking to hijack the thread but simply using it to seek further clarity - which you have now provided.

 

'IF' being the crucial word!! Which is why unless the OP returns as requested there is no point in further discussion.

 

The fact that you have now introduced a Scottish RTA 1991 PCN into the thread is exactly why its POLITELY requested that people start their own threads as it does nothing to help the OP and causes confusion.

 

It is also for that reason I POLITELY requested in rather large letters on more than one occasion that habit of tagging new PCNs onto the 'my PCN maybe unlawful' thread from 2007 was not going to help anyone. The legislation from 2007 is now null and void and having a thread constantly at the top of the board stating that PCNs need a date of issue was confusing people and possibly costing them money.

 

If you think Pepipoo is so much superior and full of polite people maybe you should go and behave in the way you do here over there and see how long it is before you are banned. Go bump a 3 year old thread and stick your PCN on the end and if you are not moderated before the end of the day I'll eat my keyboard.

[Bigdebtor]

You are suggesting I have said or implied things that I have not - on this and other threads.

 

I do believe new OP's need to be given full, supportive and polite responses in order that they do not just give up at the first hurdle - but do then take things further by posting up the full pcn or nto etc. I have never said they are not asked to do so.

 

However I do think they become discouraged from so doing - by some of the dismissive and partial answers "shot from the hip". These are not conducive to encouraging a new OP to be more proactive in order to get as much advice as is available from the many experienced (and helpful) posters on this forum.

 

This is the single simple message I have wanted to convey over the last 3 days and, unless anyone disagrees with the fact that the key aim of CAG is to help others as much as we can, then hopefully this matter can be laid to rest now?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Point 2 is not a relevant point as I was never seeking advice - just trying to clarify point 1.

 

I was referring to the most recent PCN which I had the misfortune to get. It does not have "Date of Service" as a field, which you seem to think it should have. Does that mean I can appeal it as not complying with RTA 1991 (As Amended) ?

 

If your question above, which has no relevance to the OPs situation is not seeking advice then I don't know what is.