Problems with a motorcycle dealer selling me a dodgy vehicle - advice please?

[tastyweat]

Hi,

 

I'm looking for some advice on where to go next with an issue I'm having with a motorcycle dealer, any advice/help would be greatly appreciated. Apologies in advance for the long read!

 

3 weeks and 2 days ago (Friday 16th July) I accepted delivery of a motorcycle I bought over the phone after being cross-sold from a bike I saw on ebay. I had done as much research as I could over the internet & could not find more than one previous issue under their current trading name. Hence being silly and trusting that I would be receiving a roadworthy vehicle.

 

It was put through its MOT by a neighboring garage the day before I received it.

 

Having found numerous issues with the bike (including multiple that would be an MOT failure points) I'm looking to return it to the dealer and get my money back.

 

After trying for days to contact them by phone with no answer, I composed an email/letter to get my issues to them in writing. Which is as follows:

 

Dear AK Motorcyles, Regarding the Aprilia RS125 you sold to me with registration *******.

 

I am sure you have been anticipating this contact...

 

I am simply appalled with the state in which this bike has been sold to me.

 

A list of issues for your perusal:

 

• The throttle cable snapped in the middle of heavy London traffic;
  
• All of the fuses had been wrapped in copper wire, so they are effectively a straight connection, completely negating the entire point of having a fuse box;
  
• The thread on the left fairing/slider mount is wrecked, meaning the left side of the fairing flaps about in the wind;
  
• Upon description I was instructed I would be receiving a bike with 19,000km/12,000miles, when it showed up it had over 31,000km... something I was going to overlook considering I had been instructed a full rebuild had taken place. However, I’m sure the guy who delivered it will have told you I did make a fuss about it and very nearly rejected delivery;
  
• As of today the bike will not start by the starter motor, it’s only possible to get it going by bump starting!
  
• After delivery, upon further inspection, I discovered there was no bulb in the high beam headlamp;
  
• The flash to pass trigger does not function at all;
  
• The brake light is always-on... whether the headlights are on or off and with or without any brake being depressed;
  
• The chain has not been well looked after – not oiled in a long time;
  
• After having the above issues, I performed an HPI check on the vehicle today to discover it is a cat D write-off. This was never declared to me as it should have been and had there been the slightest mention I would never have agreed to purchase the bike in the first place due to the insurance ramifications.
  
• The fresh MOT certificate is yet to show up. However, today I checked on the direct.gov website to double check it had actually been put through an MOT... which it was the day before it was delivered to me. Something must be awry, because multiple of the above are instant MOT fails.
  

The bike is quite clearly not fit for purpose. How can I possibly feel safe riding it waiting for the next thing that’s been badly bodged to fail? Or to be pulled over by the police, who after inspecting the bike would deem it not to be roadworthy. Therefore resulting in my insurance being invalidated and at least 6 points issued on my licence, causing me to lose my driving license and subsequently my job.

 

You have also breached the Trade Descriptions Act.

 

I expect you to come and collect this bike immediately, return my money in full including the fee I have incurred after being forced to cancel my insurance on disclosure of its category d status (£73.29). Otherwise I will not hesitate to report you and your local friendly MOT station to the appropriate authorities and take legal action.

 

You have 48 hours after receipt of this letter to get in touch with me by phone or email and one week to resolve the issue completely or further action will be taken.

 

Regards,

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this!

 

This email was sent to both their supplied email address and through ebay on Thursday 29th July.

 

After waiting a week for a response, I sent the same via recorded delivery.

 

On friday 6th August I received the following two responses:

hi john im sorry to hear you are having so called issues with the bike however i would advise you to arrange to get the bike back to us so we can sort any issues that need to be dealt with this is why when you buy from the trade we can help if needed we are very strict on checking our bikes out before they leave us however if issues have arisen this is not uncommon on a ten year 2ndhand bike as we do approx 3x test rides and usually do 30-40 miles and when we are happy we then deliver the bike unfortunatley we cannot see what will happen further down the line be it 1 mile oe 1000miles however we are willing to help as for the catd claim this we did not no of so therefore we could not advise you that aside rest assuered the bike was fit for purpose and safe to ride having passed an mot and had a checkover from ourselves catd usually means cosmetic damage and insurers decided not to repair which means the bike has cosmetic cracks scratches etc hence the £450 paintwork that is on the bike we do this when bikes are scuffed or scratched and speciffically ordered by the customer most 125 bikes which are used by learners and novices usaually are dropped due to learning on the bike you have is in excellent condition if you require us to look at the bike please call 01788574777 and we will arrange to pickup the machine if however you wish to tell all the appropriate legal departments your concerns then carry on but i assure you it will be long time before things get resolved i await your call thankyou

hi if you have an issue ring the shop however the items you mention are not uncommon with a used 2nd hand bike the fuses have not been wrapped in copper wire and as for the cable snapping thats not something we could have anticipated if you reqiure any parts we are here to help the bike had a repaint and was checked over before leaving us as for the mileage you spoke to mark and he was under the impression you were fully aware the bike had done approx 20k miles the bike had been fully inspected but as it is 2ndhand we cannot forsee any problems that may occur however please ring the shop and we will do our best to help out thankyou 01788574777 mon-fri 9-4 sat 9-12 as for anticipating this contact we certainly were not expecting it that is not the nature of our buiseness communication and manners get people a long way thanks

Now I'm trying to figure out exactly what to do next.

 

I've started composing another letter/email, but haven't sent it yet.

 

I have no work booked for tuesday, so plan on visiting the CAB and trying to get a free solicitors consultation. I'm also going to visit the mechanic across the road and ask him to take it in and write a full report about everything that's wrong with it.

 

My draft email/letter is as follows:

 

Andrew,

 

Thank you for finally getting back to me after nearly two weeks! With regard to the email you sent through ebay, I have been trying to phone the shop and your mobile with no answer since Monday 26th July.

 

As purchase of this bike was agreed over the phone, money changed hands before delivery and you still have yet to provide the appropriate written information to conclude the distance selling contract, I wish to return this bike immediately under the Distance Selling Regulations. To add to this, notification of my wish to cancel was dispatched to you on 29th July. Contact in writing would have been made sooner had it not taken four days of research to discover your email address, let alone your street address, something which should have been provided to me in order to conclude the contract of sale.

 

Further to the above, since my initial contact, upon further inspection by a local mechanic. More problems have been discovered;

 

- the left mirror mounting is unsecure

- the idle screw is all the way in, indicating something's very wrong. Had it even been rebuilt as was quoted to me at point of sale?

- he believes the oil mixture to be too rich or the compression too low

- the kick stand does not stop the engine when gears are engaged as it should

- the rear reflector is missing (another MOT failure point)

 

If the bike had a £450 paint job, why was it scratched on delivery down the right hand side? As far as I can see... it's had a new(ish) mis-matched fairing and a few stickers. I also specifically stated on the phone that I was not interested in what it looked like as long as it had a rebuild and was mechanically sound. If it really has had a paint job counter to my instructions then it is not what I ordered.

 

I don't see how this bike can possibly have gone through a legitimate MOT with the following issues:

- Brake light constantly on

- Missing headlamp bulb

- Missing rear reflector

- Fuses wrapped in copper wire

- Broken fairing mount

- Non-working flash-to-pass trigger

 

As for the fuses wrapped in copper wire, see the attached picture. Discovered when the throttle cable snapped and having no ignition after repair.

 

As for the mileage, I was very clearly told it had ≈19,000km on the clock "which is about 12,000 miles". However, due to the instruction that it had been rebuilt, I was willing to overlook the discrepancy. At initial point of sale, I would not have offered to purchase the bike had I been informed of its true mileage (31,000km) as I was looking for something with a lower mileage.

 

Then to the power, I specifically asked for it to be full power and yet I can tell the CDI ignition retardation is still in place. Plus I am sure that if I were to look, there would be no powervalve. Another breach of the trade descriptions act.

 

I was hoping you would be reasonable and that we could get this resolved in a respectable and timely manner, judging by your replies this is not the case.

 

 

Should you not collect this bike and issue me a refund immediately, giving me no option but to take this to court; on top of currently outstanding monies, you will also be liable for the court fees, solicitor fees and expenses.

 

My next step is to take the bike to a local MOT station and have a full report constructed detailing all issues which will be attached to my small claims court submission. You will also be immediately reported to trading standards and your friends at R&J Motorcycles will be reported to VOSA for issuing a false MOT.

 

Please arrange collection for Tuesday (whole day), Thursday (mid-afternoon onwards) or Saturday as these are the only times I have available to hand-over this coming week.

 

You have up to and including the 16th August to resolve this, otherwise further action will be taken... even if it will take months to get my money and expenses back from you.

 

Regards,

 

Thanks for reading!

[tastyweat]

Can't seem to edit my original post...

 

Here's my second draft of the reply:

 

Andrew K******,

 

RE: *******

 

Thank you for finally replying after nearly two weeks! With regard to the email sent through ebay, I have been attempting to phone the shop and your mobile with no answer since Monday 26th July.

 

As purchase of this bike was agreed over the phone, money changed hands before delivery and you still have yet to provide the appropriate written information to conclude the distance selling contract, I wish to return this bike immediately under the Distance Selling Regulations. To add to this, notification of my wish to cancel was dispatched to you on 29th July. Contact in writing would have been made sooner had it not taken four days of research to discover your email and street addresses, something which should have been provided in order to conclude the contract of sale.

 

Upon further inspection by a local mechanic, more problems have been discovered;

 

- the left mirror mounting is broken, leaving the mirror unsecure

- the idle screw is fully tightened. Had it even been rebuilt as was quoted to me at point of sale?

- the oil mixture to is too rich or the compression too low to allow the starter motor to run the engine

- the kick stand does not stop the engine when gears are engaged as it should

- the rear reflector is missing (another MOT failure point)

 

If the bike had a £450 paint job, why was it scratched on delivery down the right hand side? As far as I can see... it had a new(ish) mis-matched fairing and a few stickers. I also specifically stated on the phone that the cosmetics were not of interest as long as it had been fully rebuilt and was mechanically sound. If it really had a paint job counter to my instructions then it is not what I ordered.

 

It is not possible for the bike to have passed a legitimate MOT with the following issues:

- Brake light constantly on

- Missing headlamp bulb

- Missing rear reflector

- Broken fairing mount

- Non-working flash-to-pass trigger

 

With regard to the fuses wrapped in copper wire, see the attached picture. Discovered when the throttle cable snapped and having no ignition after repair.

 

As for the mileage, I was very clearly told it had ≈19,000km on the clock "which is about 12,000 miles". At initial point of sale, I would not have offered to purchase the bike had I been informed of its true mileage (31,000km) as I was only interested in something with a lower mileage.

 

Then to the power, I specifically asked for it to be full power and yet the CDI ignition retardation is still in place. Plus there is no powervalve, another breach of the trade descriptions act.

 

I hope we can get this resolved in a respectable and timely manner. Should you not collect this bike and issue a refund within two weeks, there will be no option but to take this to court. On top of currently outstanding monies, you will also be liable for the court fees, solicitor fees and expenses.

 

The bike will be taken to a local MOT station and have a full report constructed detailing all issues to be attached to the small claims court submission. You will also be immediately reported to trading standards and R&J Motorcycles will be reported to VOSA for issuing a false MOT.

 

Please arrange collection for Tuesday (whole day), Thursday (mid-afternoon onwards) or Saturday as these are the only times available to hand-over this coming week.

 

You have up to and including the 23rd August to resolve this.

 

Regards,

 

[Conniff]

Sorry we missed you tastyweat, have things progressed? Have you sent that letter?

[tastyweat]

No worries,

 

Spoke with a solicitor who specialises in this kind of thing.

 

Would have to handle the court case myself seeing as through small claims court you can only reclaim ~£260 worth of legal fees from the other side.

 

Plus judging by the responses I've had, they would eak it out as long as they possibly could...

 

I've decided to let them have the opportunity to fix it... I doubt they will, but it's worth giving them the opportunity & according to the solicitor it would make me look reasonable to the judge if/when it gets that far.

 

Should they not fix it... court it will be

[Conniff]

To go to court to ask for it to be fixed isn't half as easy as going through the small claims court for money. Give them this one last chance to fix and then if you are not satisfied, take it elsewhere and pay the bill. You then send a copy of that bill to the seller for reimbursement. Failure to pay means that you can then proceed through the small claims which will cost about £40 for a few thousand pounds worth, you can also do it on line.

 

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

 

If they attempt to eak it out, then you make time of the essence

[tastyweat]

That's probably the best way to go about it, rather than trying to reject it and have it sitting outside for a year or however long it takes.

[tastyweat]

Had a feeling they wouldn't do anything... didn't think they'd go so far as puncturing my front tyre to try and get even more money out of me!

 

My partner was with me when the father picked the bike up on thursday night & witnessed there was no puncture in the front tyre (she even pushed it part of the way to the van!).

 

Here's the theiving, criminal damage causing bar-stew-ards reply:

 

yes jon we have an update firstly im a little disapointed that you didnt tell us that you have dropped or fell of the bike whilst it may have slipped your mind the damage is plain to see rightand lower panel damaged the sticker has chips consistent with touching the floor then we have the front brake lever bent consistent with hitting the floor then we have indicator scuffed the handlebar bent and loose then the righthand footrest peg damaged along with the rear brake lever being bent in whilst these may not have been items to wanted to tell us about they are plain to see i do have photographic evidence to support. we then notice you have a slow puncture on the front tyre this we have noticed as soon as the bike came to us as it was very heavy on the steering. the bike had indeed been rebuilt as the barrel is a good quality replacement part named mitaka. i have to inform you that when this bike left us it was fit for purpose motd and rideable hence the reason when it got to you it started and ran and ticked over i no this because i was the person who test rode the bike and my mechanic mark also test rode it i must also add the previuos owner also road the bike with no problem i have a statement from them to verify this. whilst you mention your throttle cable snapped this was unfortunate but not uncommon for a 10 year old 2ndhand machine it was not a brand new machine, this aside you then mention that the bike wont run unless bump started when the bike arrived i turned it on and attempted to start the bike unfortunately it wouldnt i then inspected the bike further and my conclusion is that you have had a topend seizure which i would say with years of experience has been caused by over stressing the machine and given the miles you have covered since taking delivery i think you have not taken appropriate care of it. so combined with the accident damage and the misuse i find all you previuos emails very offensive, at no time did i not try to help or start being awkward unlike yourself this aside i am willing to help you with getting the bike up and running again firstly i will offer to sort your accident damage issues at cost price this is without prejudice this is purely because im a nice person who values his customers the running issue i will qoute a maximum cost of £200 this again is at cost price and without prejudice the front tyre i can only really advise replacement or we can pump it up and you can source a tyre i will await your decision thankyou andy

 

Can't believe he's even trying to make out I dropped it :S

 

As for seizure? If seized it wouldn't turn over at all.. let alone start by bumping! Even if the valves had stuck open, there's no way it would bump start...

 

I know how to run in 2 stroke engines ffs... I raced gearbox karts for 3 years!

 

Any way I can report them for criminal damage in puncturing my tyre do you think?

[tastyweat]

Now I'm stumped as for where to go next... I replied this morning and just received another reply from the ****:

 

Andy,

 

- I never dropped or fell off the bike, it was sent back to you in the same condition it was received. I have timed and dated photographic evidence to prove this. I clearly stated in my original sales call aesthetics were not an issue as long as the bike was mechanically in good order, hence why no comments had been made about such things.

 

- There was no puncture when it left me on thursday night - interesting how one developed so quickly.

 

- I followed your instructions to the letter running the engine in... keeping it idling on the throttle at ~4,000rpm so the plug doesn't oil until it had warmed up before even thinking of moving off (and at traffic lights) & not going over 8,000rpm until 500km had been reached.

 

- Had it seized, it would not bump start or turn over. If valves had stuck, it would not bump start.

 

- Replace the throttle cable

- Fix the brake light

- Fix the kick stand auto-cut-off

- Replace the fuses

- Fix the left fairing mount... the marks you mention are on the right side of the bike so you can't start trying to claim that was me

- Add a rear reflector

- Fix the flash to pass trigger

 

All of the above is either covered by your "warranty" or should have been done before delivering the bike.

 

The bike was not fit for purpose when it was delivered.

 

I have been more than reasonable trying to give you the opportunity to rectify your mistake. Should the engine not be fixed before returning it to me, it will be taken to a trusted mechanic and the bill will be passed on to you.

 

You have 7 days to get the bike back to me or issue a refund.

 

Jon MacRae

 

john please note your previuos email where you stated you nearly refused accepting the bike when it was delivered you then seem to mention nothing of that when i explained it was my father who had delivered it and at no time did you go to refuse it so as your comments were false a i have took it as you had tried to muddy the waters whith such comments also explain this if you had not dropped or fell of the bike y indeed is there clear and positive evidence to prove you have also the items i have listed are something you would have picked up on if delivered to like this as you would not have been able to ride it properly the comments of the aesthetics as you mention are nothing to do with the items other than the panel the sticker was put on the bike before the bike arrived to you and was new and had no marks when it left us so explain how now it has damage to it all this aside you have 7days to collect the bike from our premises or storage charges of £15 plus vat per day will be charged i am not going to listen to what i feel is a load excuses to cover what you have caused i also have statements, photographic evidence to provide in a court of law i hope to hear from you or alternatively you may wish to call and try and resolve this issue before your 7 days are up thankyou

 

I want to report it as theft but don't think I can...

[Conniff]

Looking a couple of post back, the mileage is mentioned as 'km', is the speedo in km ?

[tastyweat]

The speedo is in both kph and mph

[Conniff]

Ah poo - was hopeing you might have been able to claim it is not road legal.

[tastyweat]

ah well

[Conniff]

Any further along the road with this TW?

 

They have obviously been in this position before or they wouldn't have made their letter 'without prejudice'.

[tastyweat]

When I went to collect the bike the other day, I met Andy, we had a good discussion and have come to an agreement that we're both happy with.

 

He's a good a reasonable guy, even after this I would now consider dealing with him again.

 

The majority of the bad blood between us stemmed from the first contact, Andy was on holiday and returned to my first, rather abrupt email.