Son being sacked for turning 18

[feelinglow]

Hi All

 

My son is 17 and at collage he got himself a part-time job in a social club collecting glasses at the weekends for some extra money he is on £3.65 an hour. He started about 4 months ago.

The manager approched him the other day and told him that because he was turning 18 next tuesday the committee are not prepared to pay him an extra £1 on his wages so he has got to leave. Sunday will be his last shift.

He went to the CAB this morning and they told him there was nothing he could do. Is this right ? Basically he is getting sacked just for turning 18.

Now if he was to sign on he wouldn't be allowed because you get suspended by the benifit people for so many months for either giving up a job or being sacked... (if this is still inforce...not sure)

Fortunately he's at collage so doesn't have too sign on.

Surely they can't just sack some1 for turning 18 that can't be right ??

Hope some1 can shed some light on this for me. Thanks for looking.

 

Rgds

FL

[phoenix11]

Being sacked for such a disgraceful reason should not be held against him if he did need to claim benefits.

 

I take it he has not got this in writing? If not, he could ask the CAB to write to the company concerned and request clarification on why his job has been terminated.

 

He could also, perhaps with your support, writ to the company to say that he is very disappointed to be losing his part-time job which has meant so much to him simply because he turns a year older and would be eligible for increased pay in law. He should ask them to reconsider as the position means a lot to him both in helping him pay his way and in holding down a continuous part-time position whilst at college.

[ForestChav]

Reason for doing so aside, as far as I know, you have pretty poor employment rights within the first year and even worse within the first six months. Basically, regardless of whether or not he has a contractual probationary period it is really simple to get rid of someone of that length's service - and unless you can prove he has been discriminated against and take them to a tribunal, where the odds are pretty much stacked against you because of the length of service anyway, sadly there isn't anything much you can do.

 

I guess the reason is tangible - an extra £1 an hour purely because of his age which they can't afford. It isn't being sacked - he hasn't done anything to cause this other than to get older, and he hasn't given it up either, basically they have made him redundant because they can't afford an 18 year old in that position. Maybe ask the job centre but as he hasn't done anything wrong or asked to leave I don't think that would apply anyway - but as he's a student he can't really sign on anyway.

 

You/he could ask a solicitor but quite frankly I don't see the point. A job at that age is about money and possibly a reference for some employment history, they're not important career moves, he might as well just chalk it down to experience, realise that employers generally have no loyalty to their staff, look for another part time job and move on As he hasn't done anything wrong they will probably give him a reference (and get another 17 year old to do the same job, no doubt!).

 

All that aside, what a disgraceful reason to terminate someone's employment - especially a seventeen year old child.

[antone]

Being sacked for such a disgraceful reason should not be held against him if he did need to claim benefits.

 

 

This. If he does need to claim benefits he'll probably be OK. He didn't leave voluntarily and turning 18 hardly qualifies as "misconduct" - at least, not to anyone who doesn't read the Daily Mail.

 

Decision Makers have some discretion over these things.

[elpulpo]

Being dismissed for becoming 18, and therefore qualifying for the relevant rate of NMW is an automatically unfair reason for dismissal.

Your son needs to seek to substantiate that that is the reason for his employer dismissing him - I doubt that his employer would be so foolish as to give him this in writing, it may be necessary for him to resort to recording his manager, either in person or via a phone call, stating this

[mariefab]

Does your son have (or can he get) any evidence that this is the reason for his dismissal?

 

It's an automatically unfair dismissal, so he doesn't need to have worked there for a year in order to make a Tribunal claim.

Employment Rights Act section 104A, below:

 

The national minimum wage.

(1)An employee who is dismissed shall be regarded for the purposes of this Part as unfairly dismissed if the reason (or, if more than one, the principal reason) for the dismissal is that—

 

©the employee qualifies, or will or might qualify, for the national minimum wage or for a particular rate of national minimum wage.

[Sidewinder]

Absolutely right, and disgraceful behaviour. If they can't afford the extra £1 an hour, then they should have thought of that before giving him the job, knowing that they would have to increase the rate of pay on turning 18.

 

Get a letter in to them TOMORROW (Saturday) and certainly before he leaves on Sunday, stating that having taken legal advice, he has been assured that the actions of the social club in dismissing him constitute an automatically Unfair Dismissal under the section of the ERA quoted above by Mariefab, and that this will be enforced via an Employment Tribunal should they insist on dismissal.

 

I am fairly certain that they will reconsider their decision swiftly with squeaky bums and sweaty palms!

[ForestChav]

Hmm, I hadn't thought of this contravening any NMW legislation... (which is why you should always ask a lawyer not a forum).

[feelinglow]

Hi All

 

Thanks for the replies... I've told him to try and get the letter from them not sure he will get the truth though. Not sure where to start with the letter though if you could help me there would be much appreciated Thanks again every1

Rgds

FL

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

I entirely agree with 'mariefab'...

 

Your son cannot be dismissed for the principal reason that he is asserting his rights to NMW once he turns 18 by qualifying to a higher rate.

 

Beside the fact that it is automatically unfair to dismiss for this reason only, there is an element of age discrimination, in which your son is being dismissed for reaching his 18th birthday.

 

However, in conjunction with getting written reason(s) for dismissal (they just might not do so as he would not be entitled to such a letter - not a legal requirement below one year continuous service) it would be interesting to read the employer's reaction(s) to a grievance, to which they should be compelled to reply.

[honeybee13]

Hello. Your son is lucky to have you on his side. I can't add to what's been said already, but as for the letter, can you adapt what Sidewinder advised you to say? It doesn't need to be a long letter and you could 'soften' it by saying how much he's enjoyed the job and how disappointed he is in their decision.

 

I hope they see sense.

 

HB

[Philip23]

That is terrible - best of luck with this.

[mariefab]

What your son could do is write a letter to the Committee and send it by recorded delivery.

Perhaps something like this:

 

son's address

date

 

Dear Committee,

 

(Name of mamager) informed me on (date) that because I am turning 18 on (date) the committee are not prepared to pay me an extra £1 on my wages so I have to leave. I guess that the social club can't afford it.

 

I know that I have only worked at the social club for 4 months, but would I be entitled to any notice pay?

 

Yours etc.

 

If they reply with an answer about the notice pay but they fail to address (or make any correction to) the reason for his dismissal he could then use this letter as evidence of his dismissal on NMW grounds and, as BRB spotted, age discrimination.

[feelinglow]

Hi mariefab

 

Thanks for the reply.. He was told yesterday that he will be paid for this weekend + they will be giving him some holiday pay as well not sure how much though.

 

Rgds

FL

[feelinglow]

Hi All thanks for your comments and advice..

 

Rgds

FL

[mariefab]

In that case, perhaps instead of...

 

I know that I have only worked at the social club for 4 months, but would I be entitled to any notice pay?

 

...he could write:

 

I have since been told that I'll be paid for this weekend and I'll be paid some holiday pay as well.

 

I would be grateful if you could send me a written reference to help me to find another job.

[Conniff]

Of course they are giving him holiday pay, he is entitled to it.

[ForestChav]

He's also entitled to keep his job - at the NMW for 18 year olds - but they aren't giving him that. For the sake of what, £1 an hour, for a young lad working a few hours at weekends? That's gonna be what, the cost of a couple of drinks each night?

[R&J]

The previous advice is pretty much spot-on.

 

Any dismissal relating to someone trying to assert their NMW rights is automatically unfair. There might also be an age discrimination point here.

 

If you could get evidence then this would be a slam-dunk in the Employment Tribunal. Even if you can't get evidence the fact that they are dismissing him when he turns 18 looks very suspicious, and the Tribunal might be prepared to 'read in-between the lines', if you know what I mean.

[wheelergeezer]

I might be wrong here and am happy to be corrected, but don't you have to be 18 to work in a bar in the first place? I know he isn't serving alcohol, but he is handling it (albeit dregs in glasses).. In supermarkets IIRC you cannot stack the booze isle if you are not 18.

 

As for terminating his employment because he now meets NMW, that is not allowed and he should most certainly take this up with the relevant authority.

[Sidewinder]

I might be wrong here and am happy to be corrected, but don't you have to be 18 to work in a bar in the first place? I know he isn't serving alcohol, but he is handling it (albeit dregs in glasses).. In supermarkets IIRC you cannot stack the booze isle if you are not 18.

 

As for terminating his employment because he now meets NMW, that is not allowed and he should most certainly take this up with the relevant authority.

 

You can work in any licenced premises if you are under 18, you can even serve behind the bar if you are under 18, although you must be supervised by the Licensee, or a designated person. Similarly, you can stock the booze aisle in a supermarket, but not sell alcohol unless the transaction is supervised. Many checkout operators can be seen ringing for a supervisor if under 18 and a bottle comes down the belt, and many waiting staff in pubs and restaurants are under 18 and doing similar duties to the OP's son.

[R&J]

Would be interested to know what (if anything) has happened on this one, should to OP still be on these forums.

[feelinglow]

Sorry for the delay he went back to collect his holiday pay and that was it no letter or anything I think because of the way they finished him has left him abit upset as his reaction when he got back was I ain't working for those ****** ***** again even if they did offfer me my job back after the way I've been treated they can stick it ********** you get the picture.. I'm affriad he no longer wants to persue it and is looking else where.. Thanks for all the help and responses only sorry I couldn't convince him to carry on. Thx again every1.

Rgds

FL

[honeybee13]

Thank you for letting us know. I hope he can move on and find something better. It's a shame you haven't been able to sort them out.

 

HB

[Conniff]

Perhaps now is the time to name and shame this social club.