Freds/Carter claimform - Monument Card 'debt' ***Claim Struck Out****

[vjohn82]

Sorry, my mistake here. I thought you had only received that signature part through the post this morning... sorry.

 

I think you're in a difficult position here because you're reliant upon what the court staff are telling you. Hmmmm... I'm not sure what you can do. Click on the warning triangle and a member of the site team will advise on the best course of action to take.

[gh2008]

Why should anyone pay attention to a letter? It needs to be on an N244 with the application fee being paid. That's the ONLY way you can apply for a strike out of their case.

 

We make it clear that they have not complied with the order... job done.

 

TBH, the last app for strike out resulted in an 'or else' order

 

The Claimant has merely submitted further copies of the same documents rubbished by the DJ

 

The letter was merely to emphasize that fact

 

The Court SHOULD now automatically Strike Out the claim.

 

I would wait for a little while and see if there is any action by the Court - if your deadline looms then another app in

 

If you do make another app you don't need a hearing as it will be a paper exercise for the Court

[Upsetandfrustrated]

Thank you gh2008, I was starting to worry. I have not heard from the court on the matter yet. If it comes to it, what app do I need to make to the court? Another strike out?

[Upsetandfrustrated]

I have received this from the court.

 

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I sent in the letter and even attached one with a draft striking out order. I must stress again, they have not complied, just sent a blank T & C's document already put before the court. They have not sent a signed and executed agreement, not sent details of the account including the fee's, interest, manual interventions etc. I have had a letter from BCC offering me a chance to settle now before a CCJ gets lodged. I have just over a week to submit a full defence. How can I do that? I have nothing to work on or dispute. The court staff are plain stupid, they have told me to comply with point 3 or BCC will get judgement against me.

 

Please help.

[DonkeyB]

This is from a clerk, not a judge, and he cannot possibly know if they have complied with the order. He simply knows that documents have been sent.

 

So you have to jump through the same hoops again, and reiterate in your defence that exactly the same documents have been sent as were previously available to the judge.

 

If you had sent an N244 with the fee, it would have gone in front of a judge.

[Upsetandfrustrated]

But I thought the Judges words were explicit? So if I were to do a N244 (again) and ask for the striking out without hearing, will that get done this time? Or am I too late? I cannot put in a defence. The situation is stupid, I cannot defend what they say, they may as well be able to put their finger in the air and come up with a figure.

[gh2008]

TBH, the last app for strike out resulted in an 'or else' order

 

The Claimant has merely submitted further copies of the same documents rubbished by the DJ

 

The letter was merely to emphasize that fact

 

The Court SHOULD now automatically Strike Out the claim.

 

I would wait for a little while and see if there is any action by the Court - if your deadline looms then another app in

 

If you do make another app you don't need a hearing as it will be a paper exercise for the Court

 

The above still applies ....

[Upsetandfrustrated]

I will make another app then gh2008, thanks for your help.

[Upsetandfrustrated]

Today I submitted to the Court a N244 asking for a Strike out order.

 

I have submitted the draft order as below too.

 

 

IN THE XXXXXXXXX COURT CLAIM No:XXXXXXXXXXX

 

BETWEEN

 

ARROW GLOBAL LLC Claimant

And

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Defendant

 

DRAFT ORDER

 

1. The claimants have failed to provide by 4pm on the 21st February to the court or the Defendant a copy of the properly executed consumer credit agreement between Barclays Bank PLC and the Defendant together with a full record of all charges levied, credits and debits on the account referred to in the statement of XXXXXXXXX as ordered byXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX on the 24th January 2011, in paragraph 1 of her order.

 

2. The Claimant has merely provided further duplicate copies of documents already filed and placed before the District Judge at the hearing of Deputy District Judge XXXXX.

 

3. The Claimant is in default of points 1 and 3 of Deputy District Judge XXXXXXX order of the 24th January 2011 and therefore the claim should now be struck out.

 

4. The Defendant asks for costs in the case as ordered by Deputy District Judge XXXXXXXXX on the 24th January 2011 in item 4 of her order.

 

Statement of truth

 

I, XXXXXXXXXXXXXX, the Defendant, believe the above statement to be true and factual.

 

………………………………………………………………………………………

This statement is dated the XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

I asked that there was no hearing on the N244 form, plus added in the box items 1-4 of the draft order.

 

As my deadline for submitting my defence is Monday, should I still submit one even though I cannot form a defence as I have no information?

 

I do not want them to get a default judgement.

 

Quick question, if the DJ agrees and strikes out, then gives me a judgement (or what ever it is they give if I am successful) for my costs. As they are a USA based company, how would I get it? This is just a thought.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Upsetandfrustrated
Took out identifying details.

[Upsetandfrustrated]

Just had a really good discussion with the Chief Clerk at the court. She said that after looking at the file, one of the clerks had just stamped that BCC had submitted documents, not noting that they had failed to comply with the DJ. She said that it had to go in front of the same DJ next week who would then look to see if they had not complied. She said she could not say what she thought the DJ would do, but suffice if they had not complied the DJ would normally strike out. What I thought was stupid was that she went as far as saying the clerk who stamped that they had received something should not have done so and that they should have registered it as a failure.

 

It has just cost me £75.00 as she said it might mean a hearing. I ticked the without hearing box on the form. working it out, I have paid £150.00 in N244 fee's so far, let alone all the time, travel etc. It's really expensive defending what should not have even been allowed to court. If I get a strike out, I know I can apply for costs so hopefully I will get something, although she said the court could not act against a company that was based in the US. Why is justice or the court system so one sided? They being based in the UK, issue papers from their US office. If I win I cannot claim against the UK office according to the person I spoke to. Really unfair!

 

If I win, I would love to cause both Arrow and BCC as many problems as possible and would like assistance in doing that and help to save someone else the same problems in the future.

[Bazooka Boo]

I don't know about you being UAF but just reading this makes me UAF!!!

 

This is the exact story that needs to be seen by your local MP, so they can raise it in the commons.

 

As for the fees you have paid defending yourself, well I would possibly look at the small claims track, especially if it is struck out, quite why you are unable to counter claim for expenses is indicative of this country's disjointed thinking!

[vjohn82]

You can potentially make a claim against their solicitors (if they are using them) for costs, especially if vexatious litigation is the order of the day.

 

I note the court order was signed by K.Wilson... a weird individual if I have ever met one and easily wound up ;-)

[foolishgirl]

Sorry Upset, just jumped in on this thread after a long time so tell me to jump out again if this is irrelevant.

 

Was your claim from Arrow Global or Arrow Global LLC.? If the latter is not registered in the UK, have you checked they are registered at Companies House & have a registered UK credit licence? If not, they have no business with your debt or taking you to court.

 

Re. your wasted court fees because of court staff incompetence, you can write to the court manager, explain the situation & ask for a refund.

[Upsetandfrustrated]

I was taken to court by Arrow LLC based in the USA. I cannot see how if I were to win, I will get any money out of them as they are in the USA. A UK based DC, issuing summons from their US office knowing they a bullet proof (I assume they are).

[vjohn82]

Who are the solicitors acting for Arrow?

[Upsetandfrustrated]

Bryan Carter & Co. They issued even though they knew the account was in dispute. Their letters were for Arrow Global in the UK, they sent LBA for Arrow Global LLC and the POC in the same name.

[vjohn82]

Ahhh... good ole' Carter hey?

 

Look at this then:

 

Personal liability of legal representative for costs – wasted costs orders

48.7

 

(1)This rule applies where the court is considering whether to make an order under section 51(6) of the Supreme Court Act 19817 (court’s power to disallow or (as the case may be) order a legal representative to meet, ‘wasted costs’).

 

(2)The court must give the legal representative a reasonable opportunity to attend a hearing to give reasons why it should not make such an order.

 

(3)Omitted

 

(4)When the court makes a wasted costs order, it must –

 

(a)specify the amount to be disallowed or paid; or

 

(b)direct a costs judge or a district judge to decide the amount of costs to be disallowed or paid.

 

(5)The court may direct that notice must be given to the legal representative’s client, in such manner as the court may direct –

 

(a)of any proceedings under this rule; or

 

(b)of any order made under it against his legal representative.

 

(6)Before making a wasted costs order, the court may direct a costs judge or a district judge to inquire into the matter and report to the court.

 

(7)The court may refer the question of wasted costs to a costs judge or a district judge, instead of making a wasted costs order.

[Upsetandfrustrated]

Well today is the day for me to enter a fully particularised defence to the claim as the hearing is on the 22nd of this month.

 

I am struggling. I have as you all know nothing to go on apart from some alleged statements. No properly executed CCA, no other supporting documents. I have asked for the strike out order, only to get the letter from an administrator refusing it. Will the following suffice as a defence?

 

1. I, XXXXXXXXXXX of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as a defence to the claim made by Arrow Global LLC, 5996 W Touchy Avenue, Niles, IL, 60714 USA.

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the Claimant’s Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof.

3. The Defendant notes that the Claimants' claim is not fully particularised and offers no cause for action and is thus eligible for a strike out under CPR 3.4.2 (a).

4. I deny ever having applied for or operated an account with Arrow Global

5. The Claimant as failed to disclose appropriate documentation to support the Particulars of Claim, requested under CPR 31.14, which leaves the Defendant at a disadvantage and unable to plead effectively or at all.

6. The Defendant denies that they are indebted to the Claimant for the sum of £2028.29 and puts the Claimant to strict proof of this sum.

7. As the Claimant has not provided proof of the debt or the sums claimed the Defendant denies the Claimants claim for interest pursuant to s.69 of the county court Act 1984.

AND the Defendant;

8. Seeks an order that the Claimant’s action is struck out under CPR 3.4.2 (a), or otherwise dismissed, on the grounds that any claim cannot succeed and that the Claimant do pay the Defendant’s costs incurred in defending this action and the Claimant is default of the order by Deputy District Judge XXXXX on XXXX to file and serve a copy of the Consumer Credit agreement between Barclays Bank PLC and the defendant, together with a full record od all charges levied, credits and debits on the account referred to in the statement of XXXXX on XXXX January 2011.

9. I believe that the facts stated in the Witness Statement are true.

 

 

Or do I ask for another striking out order. Adding that the last DJ put an "or else" line in and get it in front of a judge. Will I have to do another N244?

 

 

 

I still cannot believe I have to go to court to defend this when they have no CCA, have not provided anything a Judge has asked for and I have to go on the behest of a court administrator.

 

Any help in the next would be great.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Upsetandfrustrated
Added Strike out option

[foolishgirl]

Only just read your post so hope this is not too late but IMO you should make more obvious reference to the court order that this claim be struck out if the Claimant does not produce the docs ordered.

 

So I would amend to read as follows:

 

1. I, XXXXXXXXXXX of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as a defence to the claim made by Arrow Global LLC, 5996 W Touchy Avenue, Niles, IL, 60714 USA.

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the Claimant’s Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof.

3. The Defendant notes that the Claimants' claim is not fully particularised and offers no cause for action. The Claimant was offered the opportunity to resubmit a properly particularised claim that complied with the Civil Procedure Rules on xxx. To date they have failed to file such.

4. The Claimant has failed to disclose appropriate documentation to support the Particulars of Claim, requested under CPR 31.14, which leaves the Defendant at a disadvantage and unable to plead effectively or at all.

5. The Defendant denies ever having applied for or operated an account with Arrow Global

6. The Defendant denies that they are indebted to the Claimant for the sum of £2028.29 and puts the Claimant to strict proof of this sum. The claim for interest pursuant to s.69 of the County Court Act 1984 is also denied.

7. The Claimant has not complied with an order of the court dated xxx & has failed to produce the documents listed therein (copy attached). The Defendant is therefore of the opinion that this claim is without merit & has been brought provocatively & without due cause.

AND the Defendant therefore now seeks;

 

An order that the Claimant’s action is struck out under CPR 3.4.2 (a), or otherwise dismissed

(a) on the grounds that this claim cannot succeed

(b) that the Claimant is in default of the order by Deputy District Judge XXXXX on XXXX to file and serve a copy of the Consumer Credit agreement between Barclays Bank PLC and the defendant, together with a full record od all charges levied, credits and debits on the account referred to in the statement of XXXXX on XXXX January 2011

© that the Claimant be ordered to pay the Defendant’s costs incurred in defending this action

 

8. I believe that the facts in this Statement are true and accurate.

[Upsetandfrustrated]

I have to put it in by 4pm today. so thank you for your help. I will keep everyone updated.

[Upsetandfrustrated]

Well I put the document into the court, (thanks again foolishgirl), but I have heard nothing from the other end. I expect they will not turn up like the other times.

 

Can anyone advise me on what to say or more importantly, not to say when I go to court?

 

I expect the DJ to ask if I had a card, did I use it, why did I make payments.

 

Once again. Thank you to everyone for their help.

[foolishgirl]

Have you got a date for court?

If not, don't worry about what to say. This should be dealt with by a DJ without hearing as it should be regarded as a simple strike out as they have not complied with the court's orders.

[Upsetandfrustrated]

I am in court today, well later today. The clerk sent that letter saying they complied, therefore I had to put in a fully particularised defence.

 

I altered the one you did Foolishgirl, but that is all I have submitted.

 

I am worried what will happen in court if the DJ starts to question me. What do I say? Will they ask if I had a card? Will I be asked whether I had paid anything etc? How come the fact the case has carried on even though they never complied with the "or else" order? Justice appears so one sided. They have not produced a signed and executed copy of the alleged agreement to date. They have not given the full details of the account including charges, levied penalties, interventions as already ordered by a judge. They can get away with anything.

 

I am so worried, so I not go and hope the DJ see's through their claim. I am a nervous wreak.

[AndyOrch]

I am in court today, well later today. The clerk sent that letter saying they complied, therefore I had to put in a fully particularised defence.

 

I altered the one you did Foolishgirl, but that is all I have submitted.

 

I am worried what will happen in court if the DJ starts to question me. What do I say? The less the better unless it aides your defence Will they ask if I had a card? You respond that you have had numerous cards Will I be asked whether I had paid anything etc? You have made payments to numerous legitimate creditors How come the fact the case has carried on even though they never complied with the "or else" order? Raise it at the hearing and ask the DJ that very point Justice appears so one sided. They have not produced a signed and executed copy of the alleged agreement to date. Therefore they have not proved that they can enforce it the law can not work on here say They have not given the full details of the account including charges, levied penalties, interventions as already ordered by a judge.Again raise this and ask when will you receive it to enable any counterclaim and why have they disregarded the DJs orders of XX XXX XXXX They can get away with anything. Only if you accept it

 

I am so worried, so I not go and hope the DJ see's through their claim. I am a nervous wreak.

.

 

No need to be nervous you only have one shot at this stand your ground raise your points and if you dont understand politely request they repeat it.

Ask questions if you are not satisfied ask again and ask for an explanation.

 

Im sure you will be ok but follow my suggestions.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[DonkeyB]

Just state the facts and the truth. Exactly as you have done here. State to the judge that a court order was made, and the claimant has not complied with it. Ask that the case therefore be struck out on these grounds.

 

Is there any possibility that documents have been sent to the court, but not to you? That is an old trick. If this does happen, state that you have not received the documents and request an adjournment.

 

Remember – facts, facts, facts. Apologise to the judge as soon as you get in to the court room, saying that you hope he/she will be accommodating as you are a litigant in person and not experienced in court room procedures.

 

It’s not ever as daunting as you expect. The majority of judges are decent and will understand your situation. Make notes of all the important factors as described on this thread, and take your time to consult your notes.

 

If they send a solicitor, and he says something you believe to be false, do not accuse them of fibbing, but respectfully point out to the judge that you believe the facts are very different, and you should be given your chance to ask their rep some questions and give your version of events. If he can’t answer, then he has been badly briefed.

 

Good luck. When you win, don’t forget to ask for your costs!