Parking on grass verge on restricted road

[skysurfer666]

Along with dozens of other motorists today I seem to have fallen foul of the law by parking on a grass verge alongside double yellow lines along a road in Swanage, Dorset currently enjoying its Regatta Week.

 

I arrived at the car as some kind of warden was making notes about each car and taking photos.

 

I asked him if he was 'doing' all these motorists (including me) and he said "every one".

 

I argued the cars were not causing any obstruction and there was no footpath on this side of the road and a fence bounded fields.

 

He quoted some regulation that the double lines restriction covered the distance from the centre of the road to the boundary and "people ought to know that"

 

Of course he knows full well that most people don't "know that" and parked there thinking that if they were off the road there was no obstruction and therefore no problems for anyone.

 

It's my job and it's the law, he says but personally I don't know how he sleeps at night ruining everybody's happy day.

 

I have noticed this has come up before on these forums but wanted to ask specific questions about this case.

 

There were no signs on posts or walls on this side the road, although there were signs to match double lines on the opposite side of the road.

 

He argued that no signs are now necessary according to some Traffic Regulation I think of 2004.

 

I also noted that no tickets were fixed on my car or anybody else's so no doubt we'll just get something in the mail.

 

Is this legal please anyone?

 

So please help with 1 - Is he right that no signs are needed? and 2 - no tickets have to be slapped on cars?

 

And any other advice on whether to pay up or try to appeal against this.

 

Many thanks to the caring folk who spend time answering queries like this.

[sailor sam]

Hi welcome to CAG.

 

Good news (maybe) and bad news. Bad news first; double yellows do not need signage and they cover the road and any adjacent footpath, verge or any other area which is part of the public highway.

 

Good news (maybe); are you sure this guy was a 'warden' working for the local aurhority? (They are called Civil Enforcement Officers or CEO's by the way). I ask because they should issue a PCN from a machine at the time of the 'offence'.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

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[green_and_mean]

I dont think Swanage is decriminalised.

[skysurfer666]

Thanks so much Sailor Sam for your prompt reply.

I regret to say that I was so upset by all this that I just saw his peaked cap and didn't suss much else.

I recall him saying something about people had complained about the parking so the police either were called or the police asked then to take action.

I've obviously been Googling this a bit and the problem seems to be that the change the laws every few years and a lot of legal advice is outdated.

I thought I was on a winner also because no ticket was issued to anybody and wondered if this would mean we would all get some warning letter from somebody.

But then I read this piece dated July 2010. Please let me know what you think - thanks.

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/fight-parking-tickets

They never put the ticket on my car

It used to be the case that if you received a Notice to Owner in the post, but no ticket was applied to your car, then you could appeal.

For a ticket to stand, previously it had to have been physically applied to the car. So if you return to your car and find that a parking attendant is in the process of writing a ticket, you could drive off without being pursued for the offence. The attendant might say 'I have already started writing the ticket', or may ask that you wait while he completes it, but you are not required to remain at the scene.

Note that this only applied when the ticket is being issued by a parking attendant. Police officers and traffic wardens can also issue tickets, although the overwhelming majority are handed out by parking attendants.

Changes in the rules for parking tickets in April 2008, meant that this defence no longer applies, and councils may now send you a ticket through the post. However, if this happens the first thing you should do is request photographic evidence of the contravention. If the council cannot supply this, then you can argue the contravention did not occur. Check the photo carefully against the actual area. Has it been cropped to make it misleading, does the picture actually show a contravention, is it marked with date and time, does it definitely show your car? In many instances, there may not be sufficient proof."

 

As this warden or Civil Enforcement Officer or whatever he is, was taking photos I presume they'll just send me a ticket with the picture of the car on the verge.

 

I am sure there are somewhere one or two almost human parking wardens but right now I feel that to take this job you must be either grossly inadequate and use your position to weild some kind of power or you are born a bully and a fascist and are beyond hope of angels with harps or 22 virgins when your ticketing days are over!

[green_and_mean]

I am sure there are somewhere one or two almost human parking wardens but right now I feel that to take this job you must be either grossly inadequate and use your position to weild some kind of power or you are born a bully and a fascist and are beyond hope of angels with harps or 22 virgins when your ticketing days are over!

 

Yes indeed why not let people park where they like it is after all only the law, ticket inspectors on public transport are just as bad what job satisfaction can there be in making sure people have paid??

[sailor sam]

I dont think Swanage is decriminalised.

 

I would'nt know, I've never been!

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[skysurfer666]

If I read your correctly Green and Mean your statement is mild sarcasm suggesting that I feel all law enforcement is exploitative.

No that's not what I mean but constantly - and I'm sure you've come across many examples on this forum - the law seems to be used to punish people not causing anybody else any harm and often as a means of raising revenue.

I have been to countless events for instance where so many people turn up that all the parking space has been taken up, so normally law abiding people park on verges because there's nowhere else - but none of them would be anti-social enough to park on the road causing an obstruction for fire engines etc.

If police or councils had any real interest in stopping people park on verges for given events a couple of V boards placed on the said verges saying no parking or some of those cones along the verge, would do the job perfectly.

But of course that would solve their problems but not make any money!

That's the kind of attitude which I am against because it brings the law into disrespect by ordinary punters.

[green_and_mean]

If I read your correctly Green and Mean your statement is mild sarcasm suggesting that I feel all law enforcement is exploitative.

No that's not what I mean but constantly - and I'm sure you've come across many examples on this forum - the law seems to be used to punish people not causing anybody else any harm and often as a means of raising revenue.

 

Verges are not meant to be parked on it damages the grass and is liable to damage utilities burried beneath. You already stated there was no footpath therefore pedestrians would have to walk in the road. It only raises revenue because people are ignorant of the highway code or because some people think it doesn't apply to them.

[skysurfer666]

I think you're missing my point Green and Mean - probably deliberately. Yes there could be damage but generally people use common sense.

 

You are wrong about pedestrians having to walk in the road. In this case there was a footpath on the other side and the ground so uneven on the verge that nobody would be expected to walk on there anyway.

 

If they did they'd probably fall over, sue the council and some of those parking fines would get swallowed up!

 

Anyway guys and gals and especially Sailor Sam who kindly took up my case in a helpful and positive way, do I have any grounds for appeal or do I have to pay up?

Thanks

[B & T]

Thought you were calling it a day G&M; better things to do & all that.

[sailor sam]

I think you're missing my point Green and Mean - probably deliberately. Yes there could be damage but generally people use common sense.

 

You are wrong about pedestrians having to walk in the road. In this case there was a footpath on the other side and the ground so uneven on the verge that nobody would be expected to walk on there anyway.

 

If they did they'd probably fall over, sue the council and some of those parking fines would get swallowed up!

 

Anyway guys and gals and especially Sailor Sam who kindly took up my case in a helpful and positive way, do I have any grounds for appeal or do I have to pay up?

Thanks

 

Well its not looking good but wait and see what the PCN is like when it arrives and perhaps post it here so we can see if there any flaws about it.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[skysurfer666]

Will do Sailor Sam.

And thanks again for your help.

PS Do I take it that you concur with that link I posted saying that no longer is it necessary for a ticket to be placed on a car?

[green_and_mean]

Thought you were calling it a day G&M; better things to do & all that.

 

Some of the 511 people who have added to my reputation convinced me to come out of retirement, lol. Did you miss me?? :grin:

[green_and_mean]

I think you're missing my point Green and Mean - probably deliberately. Yes there could be damage but generally people use common sense.

 

You are wrong about pedestrians having to walk in the road. In this case there was a footpath on the other side and the ground so uneven on the verge that nobody would be expected to walk on there anyway.

 

If they did they'd probably fall over, sue the council and some of those parking fines would get swallowed up!

 

Anyway guys and gals and especially Sailor Sam who kindly took up my case in a helpful and positive way, do I have any grounds for appeal or do I have to pay up?

Thanks

 

I just get annoyed when people get a ticket through their own stupidity or ignorance and then try to blame other people because obviously all traffic wardens are sadists or got bullied at school!

You parked on a grass verge because you didn't realise that yellow lines covered the entire road and want advice why is there the need to throw personal insults at someone carrying out their job who you don't even know?

If you answered my initial question 'did you receive a PCN' instead of blaming everyone from school bullies to the Council you would be far closer to getting a solution to your problem.

[sailor sam]

Will do Sailor Sam.

And thanks again for your help.

PS Do I take it that you concur with that link I posted saying that no longer is it necessary for a ticket to be placed on a car?

 

It would appear so but it will need to have an image with it if it is sent through the post I believe and it has to be served within a certain time limit. Like I said, when you get it, post it up to see if there is anything wrong with it.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[skysurfer666]

If you answered my initial question 'did you receive a pcn' instead of blaming everyone from school bullies to the Council you would be far closer to getting a solution to your problem.

 

Would you like to re-paste where you asked this initial question Green and Mean - I don't seem to have noticed it.

 

As for the schoolbully and fascists remarks - maybe you would like to try to develop a sense of humour.

 

Looking at other posts here I am not the first to notice your somewhat mean manner - perhaps I should have been warned by your handle.

[green_and_mean]

If you answered my initial question 'did you receive a pcn' instead of blaming everyone from school bullies to the Council you would be far closer to getting a solution to your problem.

 

Would you like to re-paste where you asked this initial question Green and Mean - I don't seem to have noticed it.

 

As for the schoolbully and fascists remarks - maybe you would like to try to develop a sense of humour. Why is it funny?

 

My appologies the post I typed hasn't appeared??

 

Lets start again!

 

Did you get a PCN?

 

Was it a CEO or a Police Traffic Warden?

[skysurfer666]

G and M

In my first post I wrote :

"I also noted that no tickets were fixed on my car or anybody else's"

 

And when Sailor Sam also asked me who exactly was doing the parking enforcing I wrote in reply " I regret to say that I was so upset by all this that I just saw his peaked cap and didn't suss much else."

 

Of the two I suspect it was a police traffic warden.

Didn't somebody here say that they don't have the others in Swanage...?

Thanks

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

G and M

In my first post I wrote :

"I also noted that no tickets were fixed on my car or anybody else's"

 

And when Sailor Sam also asked me who exactly was doing the parking enforcing I wrote in reply " I regret to say that I was so upset by all this that I just saw his peaked cap and didn't suss much else."

 

Of the two I suspect it was a police traffic warden.

Didn't somebody here say that they don't have the others in Swanage...?

Thanks

 

In that case it is likely to be a Fixed Penalty Notice dealt with as a criminal matter rather than a Penalty Charge Notice which is decriminalised. Generally speaking FPNs are better of paid rather than contested.

[skysurfer666]

Thanks Bernie - no doubt it will all be cleared up when Mr Postman arrives.

I will post the details here just in case somebody can discover it's not in order.

But it looks as if I'm going to be without a few little extras for a while....

[dragonkeeper]

sorry to hi-jack

 

My appologies the post I typed hasn't appeared??

 

Lets start again!

 

Did you get a PCN?

 

Was it a CEO or a Police Traffic Warden?

 

big whoopsie

 

See what happens when you have a day or two off.

Extra swotting after school me thinks you need

 

 

dk

 

hi-jack finished

[green_and_mean]

G and M

In my first post I wrote :

"I also noted that no tickets were fixed on my car or anybody else's"

 

you also said you had no option than to pay up, which is an odd thing to say if you have no ticket?

 

And when Sailor Sam also asked me who exactly was doing the parking enforcing I wrote in reply " I regret to say that I was so upset by all this that I just saw his peaked cap and didn't suss much else."

 

Of the two I suspect it was a police traffic warden.

Didn't somebody here say that they don't have the others in Swanage...?

Thanks

 

I do not think Swanage is enforced by the Council which means you could get a notice through the post from the Police.

[green_and_mean]

sorry to hi-jack

 

 

 

big whoopsie

 

See what happens when you have a day or two off.

Extra swotting after school me thinks you need

 

 

dk

 

hi-jack finished

 

True, but at least some of us have the courtesy to admit when they are wrong!

[B & T]

Some of the 511 people who have added to my reputation convinced me to come out of retirement, lol. Did you miss me?? :grin:

 

 

Didn't have much of an opportunity to really, you were only in retirement for all of 8 minutes!!

　

(My apologies also for this 'off topic' deviation)