urgent info needed by the morning pls

[thewakers7]

hi all i no the answers to some of my questions but i was just after clarification asap.

 

im writing on behalf of my husband as he is not very computer literate!. Il give you the lowdown below:-

 

Husband was off for 3 weeks due to bad back spasms (hes on his feet all day in his job) returned on a monday after keeping said employers up to date with phone calls and sick notes.

 

Monday morning i went to my gp after suffering all weekend with tummy problems gp sent me straight up to a & e to be seen by a surgeon, so called husband to come home from work approx 12 midday, on his shift pattern he only had the 1 day to work before being on his rostered 3 days rest days.

 

husband due in work on the friday same week for a week of lates at this point i had been in hospital for 5 days, i am discharged from hospital at midday friday, husband rings work to inform them that he will be taking emergency leave as i am his dependent, i am at this stage unable to walk wash or take care of my basic needs,

 

and also take care of our 5 children as i am unable and believe it or not we have no family or friends to speak of that would even take care of 1,2,3 or even 5 all together, our family is just the 7 of us.

 

at this point hr manager was not available but had left a message with acting supervisor to reiterate he would not be in for his 7 day shift of lates, hr manager has since left an email, (read out over phone by supervisor) that IF he needed friday off it would be unpaid(no problem) and if he was to take more than 3 days off he would be summonsed into the office on these emergency leave days for a "chat"

 

today same hr manager has left another voicemail, saying that she was aware that husband rang up on friday and needs to know that he will be coming in for his shift tonight 4.30pm start and.... they need him in because they are short staffed.

 

so husband has rang in again hr manager is not in she left at 4, and stated yet again that he would be off for the full week of his shift.

 

are u still with me lol....

 

so were aware of the right for reasonable time off to deal with emergencies of a dependent, but we are seeing this as harrasment and stressfull and very much detrimental to my recovery, where does he stand soem clarification would be great, sorry for the extra long post but i no u lovely caggers like as much info as possible, kind regards

[thewakers7]

sorry got my info mixed up it wasnt hr manager it was his line manager

[thewakers7]

sorry info mixed up it was his line manager not his hr manager

[honeybee13]

Hello there. Do you have a copy of your OH's contract or particulars of employment? It may well cover absences of this type.

 

If you do have information like that, it may help us to advise you.

 

HB

[thewakers7]

not to hand hes been there 8 years and weve moved 4 times in that 8 yr period lol, but hes more than sure theres nothing untoward on it that wud restrict him from taking emergency time off/parental leave etc, he says the parental leave is to national standards etc sorry cant be any more specific the only other way would be to get one off hr

[honeybee13]

I don't know if this will be helpful for you. I found it on the directgov website.

 

'In many cases you have the right to take time off work to deal with an emergency involving someone who depends on you (sometimes called compassionate leave). You can’t be penalised by your employer for taking the time off, providing your reasons for taking it are genuine.

 

Your right to time off for dependants

 

If you are an 'employee', you have the right to unpaid time off work to deal with emergencies involving a 'dependant' – this could be your husband, wife, partner, child, parent, or anyone living in your household as a member of the family. A dependant may also be anyone who reasonably relies on you for help in an emergency, for example an elderly neighbour living alone who falls and breaks a leg and you are the closest on hand.

 

• Understanding your employment status
  

 

 

 

• 
  Check your contract, written statement of employment or company handbook for details of the policy on time off for dependants and compassionate leave.
  
• 
  
  • Employment contracts
    

   

   

 

HB

[thewakers7]

cheers honeybee as i thought!! its the phoning up badgering for him to come into work and basically stressing him out,he just feels there gunning for him and want him out, even though iv told him they cant sack or make him redundant over this,

[Sidewinder]

Indeed they can't sack him, but make absolutely sure that he has all the answers ready in terms of whether it was necessary for him to take the extended time off. What I mean by that is that whilst there is a legal right to take time off (unpaid) in an emergency, it only serves for as long as is necessary to deal with the immediate problem. Therefore, if there is absolutely no alternative to him being there, then the time off lasts as long as necessary, but if there are other provisions which could have been made, then longer term absence might be deemed unreasonable.

 

That isn't to take anything away from your obviously distressing situation, just that some employers, and it sounds as if this may be one of them, can ask some rather awkward questions!

 

Get well soon, and reassure your husband that he cannot be disciplined over this as long as everything is reasonable in the circumstances.

[totiesquoties]

look at www.acas.org.uk for your employment rights,

so sorry you feel isolated and family and friends none, now you have a friend, me, god bless you all.:razz:

[thewakers7]

lol thanks sidewinder ye im gonna copy my discharge letter and my sick note off the hospital (even tho i dont work) we thought it would be better to pre empt(think i spelt that wrong lol) the situation coz they are very funny there, wev got nothing to hide and if they want my medical notes to prove it then they can have it im not bothered, if need be il get a letter off my doctor to state that i was in no fit state to be left on my own or to take care of my own basic needs or those of my childrens my medication often leaves me knocked out ten minutes after taken and not to mention the severe sickness that occurs when wearing off. we seriously do not have any family my husbands parents have both died and i do not deal with any of my family due to harrassment, and mental and physical abuse. our tru friends all work and live some distance away and would offer to help but a night shift that ended at 2.30 in the morning then 30 min traveling time, plus husband doesnt drive so no means of getting 5 kids to anyone and picked up also, sorry for long rant it just pees me off haha

[thewakers7]

thank u totiesquoties very kind of u, just goes to show that any parent that gets unwell (especially a mum) can throw total chaos into the mix without the threat of work calling everyday trying to push OH back to work when there is no way he could leave me alone with or without the kids x

[totiesquoties]

i do hope acas can help, they have helped us in the past with deifferent things, many companys seem to have the attitude these days you are just an inconvenience if you are off, unfortunately many of them are ruthless, all they see is pound notes, not people, all the best t.q. xx

[thewakers7]

well this compnay certainly is all of the above there a multi national company throughout the uk, as an employee u could be laying in hospital half dying and still stage u for being off sick, sick note or no sick note, and for the minority of people who might be reading this and thinking she cant be that ill if shes on here(im in bed on the laptop) having a break in my sickness as long as i dont move im ok lol

[thewakers7]

hi all just an update for u, that i could do with some advice on pls, OH rang his manager this morning to reiterate for the 4th time he will not be in for the remainder of his shift that finishes on early hours friday morning, then thus giving him 4 days rest days and return to work on tuesday next week for another week of shift so he notified manager that it would be a week today he would be returning,

 

manager stated that she couldnt allow him anymore time off 2-3 days off were sufficient OH stated 2-3 days is not deemed suffient for someone who has just spent 5 days in hospital and cannot do anything for herself or our kids, she then proceeded to ask about other people who could help, OH stated no family members/friends etc, this is where it gets interesting she suggested our 15 year old daughter look after me and her 4 other siblings so he could return to work, so my husband stated that not only was it unsafe for our 15 yr old daughter to be minding our 4 other children 3 of whom are 6,8 and 9 but also thinks it would not be legal (i no there are young carers out there that do it) im fuming to say the least but at least my husband kept his cool and got his point across, so were assuming that this now leaves him in the position that as manager has not granted more time off that it will now be unauthourised absence and that is a sackable offence, where do we go now??

 

I was thinking fight fire with fire and start ball in motion for a grievence letter any ideas peeps??

[mariefab]

I'm afraid that the manager is correct in this instance.

The right to time off for dependants is covered by section 57A of the Employment Rights Act.

　

57A Time off for dependants.

(1)An employee is entitled to be permitted by his employer to take a reasonable amount of time off during the employee’s working hours in order to take action which is necessary—

(a)to provide assistance on an occasion when a dependant falls ill, gives birth or is injured or assaulted,

(b)to make arrangements for the provision of care for a dependant who is ill or injured,

©in consequence of the death of a dependant,

(d)because of the unexpected disruption or termination of arrangements for the care of a dependant, or

(e)to deal with an incident which involves a child of the employee and which occurs unexpectedly in a period during which an educational establishment which the child attends is responsible for him.

(2)Subsection (1) does not apply unless the employee—

(a)tells his employer the reason for his absence as soon as reasonably practicable, and

(b)except where paragraph (a) cannot be complied with until after the employee has returned to work, tells his employer for how long he expects to be absent.

(3)Subject to subsections (4) and (5), for the purposes of this section "dependant" means, in relation to an employee—

(a)a spouse [or civil partner] ,

(b)a child,

©a parent,

(d)a person who lives in the same household as the employee, otherwise than by reason of being his employee, tenant, lodger or boarder.

(4)For the purposes of subsection (1)(a) or (b) "dependant" includes, in addition to the persons mentioned in subsection (3), any person who reasonably relies on the employee—

(a)for assistance on an occasion when the person falls ill or is injured or assaulted, or

(b)to make arrangements for the provision of care in the event of illness or injury.

(5)For the purposes of subsection (1)(d) "dependant" includes, in addition to the persons mentioned in subsection (3), any person who reasonably relies on the employee to make arrangements for the provision of care.

(6)A reference in this section to illness or injury includes a reference to mental illness or injury.

So, it allows for time off to make arrangements for care but not to allow the employee to provide the ongoing care themselves.

In your case, I understand that it isn't possible for your husband to make other arrangements for someone else to provide the necessary care. However, your husband's employer can refuse permission to allow more than a few days.

 

Are any of your children under 5? I ask because, although you are supposed to give 21 days notice, perhaps his employer might be prepared to waive the notice and allow him to take a period of Parental leave to cover this situation.

　

 

[Allwood]

Hi Mariefab, look at the rules and wonder how an employer would act in a case where a member of family died and member was living abroad, not all family member live in the same country or next to each other.

 

Would an employer need to see a death certificate as I certainly know they would not believe an employee.....as they think they are all thieves and liars, certainly the place that my friend works in that is the case there unless the manager is a friend of a colleague than that colleague can take advantage of all the leave that is available to them without question….

[mariefab]

Hi Allwood

I think that an employer would have to accept that in the event of a dependant dying abroad an employee would need more than a couple of days to make the necessary arrangements and an employer asking to see a death certificate would be very much out of order.

[thewakers7]

hi mariefab our youngest is 6, so parental leave is out of the question the fact that they asked him to work the 1st night on his shift and totally ignored his request initially for emergency leave, even before his shift was supposed to start, so ok it could take him another week to find some one or people to look after 1,2,3,4,5 kids either all together (no one in there right mind will look after all 5 just us lol) or two lots or 3 lots of people all split what im saying is there is 2 issues here 1, if he has to go back to work he would need someone to look after me and 2, someone to look after all 5 children as above beacuse the main caregiver (me) cannot ie, if he were to get a phonecall and say the nanny was ill he would have to come home being the main caregiver or lets say the nursery burst a pipe he would have to find another main caregiver, the above states to assist someone who falls ill/injured etc etc,allwood, when i had my last son 6 years ago OH asked for paternity leave and they asked to see the birth certificate(same company)

[totiesquoties]

hi,

do you have a local library, if so some have an advice centre inside,

if they do, i would ask your O/H to go in and tell them your situation,

i feel you could do with someone to liaise with your O/H employers,

ours we have found the advice centre is extremely helpful, or they could perhaps advise what to do on this, and if he does go, go early, as usually as ours was, many people waiting to go in, or you could try the citizens advice bureau, again go early, they might be able to guide you where to go next, what about asking your doctor about all this, he/she may be able to do something or advise on this situation, also did you see the acas website, could your husband speak to someone higher up in the company,

perhaps ring head office, and really explain your situation, i really do hope some of this can help you, and feel for you, your friend. t.q.

[thewakers7]

thas t.q ive had a look il come clean Oh is a union rep and has spent an awful lot of time and energy saving other peoples jobs so he knows a fair bit, but this emergency leave is a bit of a grey area, were thinking there is an ulterior motive, i.e they normally promote a rep to get him out of helping(u have to give up ur union rep status) or sack u, cab are usless here tbh, never open take about a week to respond, iv told him to start a greivance process against manager if for nothing else but for her asking if our 15 yr old daughter look after 4 kids and a sick mother (who would be in trouble then if there was a problem god forbid anything untoward happend whilst OH was at work=) it wud be us in serious trouble for the sake of him going in, iv also told him to go higher up the other thing is shortly there is a advertising campaign shortly to be released providing a safe enviroment for certain people(cant say anymore as this might identfy the company or OH) and u have guessed it my OH's face will be plastered all over the city we live in, they wish to advertise a safe enviroment but are not willing to put it into practise where there staff are concerned, hope this makes sense, thanks t.q ur new friend wakers7 lol:p

[Allwood]

Apart from speaking the CE of organisation, follow it up in writing have it faxed as well, (my friend organisation also says that they never received letter that are sent 1st class post to them) or email if you got s/he email address.

 

Do you both have the same GP if so perhaps your OH should go and discuss the situation with s/he and maybe get certificate until you are well again.

[totiesquoties]

just another thought, the hospital where you were, why not see if you could speak to someone there, on the ward you were on even, and tell them about your personal situation, are you still under the hospital, again, i feel your doctor may well be able to do something on this, and again does your libraby have an advice centre in, ours is supreb, they deal with all sorts of problems, and i was amazed how much they put themselves out, and even ring you to answer a question once you have been in.

many firms are like this, again i say ruthless, and only pound notes,

maybe some o.k. but in the minority.

if i think of anything else i will let you know.

lol. t.q.

[Allwood]

How could your OH be able to work with the stress that he would be under in such circumstances he would not be able to concentrate on his job, where do they get these managers from nowadays?

 

Ask your employer if they would be willing to pay for someone to look after the children and you while he is at work there is no harm in asking this in a letter to them.

[thewakers7]

ahhh good thinking allwood i did say to OH to get a a release as u wish to state that the company have to sign to say they wud take any personal liability for husband to leave me if anything should happen, i do believe they wont, t.q we have a local library but no advice centre, we do not have the same g.p but in the same building, we asked at the hspital if they could do anything coz we knew work wud be impossible, they issued me with a sick note that showed id been in hospital then another week, i suffer from severe depression so i could ask my doc/mental health team to do me a letter they have in the past and im very sure my gp would only but oblige, failing that OH gp, but saying that if OH wud go off sick with a sick note they would stage him many thanks for replies i hope ive coverred all bases lol;)

[mariefab]

I do sympathise with you and I understand that finding someone to care for a sick wife and 5 children could well be an impossible task.

 

What I'm saying is that the right to time off for dependants covered by 57A of the Act does not protect your husband for this long a period.

It's intended to cover emergencies and in many situations would just cover a few hours, 1 or 2 days at a stretch unless the employer decided to allow longer. Also, as I said earlier, it's so that he can make care arrangements rather than do it himself.

 

I really would not recommend going in with a formal grievance at this stage because that could seriously backfire if it provoked his employer to initiate a disciplinary procedure for unauthorised absence.

 

It seems that your husband is working a 4 on 4 off pattern. Perhaps he could offer to work on some of his off days once this is sorted out to make up for the working time lost.

 

Has he told his employer on what date he expects to return to work?