Arden !

[poppie173]

Arden financial recently took over a six year old debt that I had been paying to another collector.

They asked for an income & expenditure list, which I provided, even tho I know I am under no obligation to do so.

 

Despite listing everything and explaining that we are on working tax credits, they wrote asking for me to call to discuss the list I sent.

Needless to say I wrote back and asked for any concerns about my income and expenditure to be put in writing.

 

They have now written asking for a list of creditors as well as how much we pay each month to each company.

Now, I`ve already told them the total debt we have as well as the amount we pay overall each month towards it yet they want a breakdown.

 

I have nothing to hide, but Im fed up with the mounting postage costs to all these companies each month.

Should I respond or ignore?

[PriorityOne]

What's the debt for (loan/credit card/other)? It sounds like this is an old one that's been re-sold.

[poppie173]

Its a Lombard Loan and has been dealt with by AIC and Moorcroft. Doesn`t look as if its been sold on since Lombard letter said they`d appointed Arden to `manage ongoing relationship` !

 

I haven`t asked for CCA yet, as to be honest of the three companies that I have cca`d, despite all three failing to provide a compliant agreement, they all continue to write anyway.

I just don`t see how they think they can get any more each month when there is only £20 or so spare to share amongst 10 or so creditors !

[PriorityOne]

Its a Lombard Loan and has been dealt with by AIC and Moorcroft. Doesn`t look as if its been sold on since Lombard letter said they`d appointed Arden to `manage ongoing relationship` ! How thoughtful of them..

 

I haven`t asked for CCA yet, as to be honest of the three companies that I have cca`d, despite all three failing to provide a compliant agreement, they all continue to write anyway. Yes, most of them do..... that doesn't mean you have to believe their drivel though. All correspondence, if not worthy of a response, should just be filed away under "ignore".

I just don`t see how they think they can get any more each month when there is only £20 or so spare to share amongst 10 or so creditors !

 

They don't care about your situation; all they want is as much as possible from you. Don't give them an I&E breakdown as they're not entitled to see it. What you're entitled to however, is knowing that any company is legally entitled to collect money from you.

 

So CCA them is my advice to you....

 

Are you saying that you're still paying companies that don't have a valid CCA because they write to you?

[poppie173]

Thanks for response PriorityOne !

 

Yes Im afraid to admit I do still pay them.For example Robinson Way (for Cap One) only sent an application form(which I posted on here a while ago).

I sent letter saying they were in default of my request etc etc, but they then wrote back and said`we will not enter into repetitive correspondance on this matter`.

 

Santander (after taking over a Cahoot loan) sent me an agreement that was on Santander headed paper !

 

I just pay the £1 per month as it seems easier and cheaper than keep sending them recorded delivery letters.

 

Maybe I ought to toughen up as theres not a lot they can do to me. I have no assets, and own nothing of value

I`ll CCA Arden and see what comes back.

 

Thanks again

[PriorityOne]

Well you could use the same terminology; that you have no desire to keep repeating yourself and any further unsubstantiated demands for payment will be filed under "ignore".... something like that. It's entirely your call but don't let fear stop you from doing what's right for you.

 

Send the CCA to Arden (by rec. delivery, I'm afraid) and come back on here for advice if/when they respond.

 

[poppie173]

Thanks ! CCA sent an hour ago recorded delivery. Will post up if and when they respond.

[PriorityOne]

Thanks ! CCA sent an hour ago recorded delivery. Will post up if and when they respond.

 

Excellent..

 

As time goes on, you may get strong enough to tell the others to Foxtrot Oscar.... but one step at a time...

[poppie173]

Well, Arden sent my £1 back and told me to send to Lombard, which I`ve now done. Does anyone know if Arden and Lombard are one and the same as their addresses are almost identical?

Arden is PO box 15276 Solihull, whilst Lombard is PO 15274 !

 

In the meantime Arden have written several letters saying I have not sent back I & E, and that they will now be charging for letters and calls !! (despite a previous letter they sent confirming receipt of I & E).

I knew I shouldn`t have bothered sending in the first place as they aren`t even entitled to it, but there you go.

 

Its time I toughen up and stop playing this letter ping pong ! I just can`t believe any company can confirm stuff in writing, then deny its receipt, then say they are going to add charges.

If they do, I`ll simply stop paying and let them take me to court.

[cerberusalert]

IIRC Lombard ceased trading and a/cs were taken over by Arden, see; http://www.lombarddirect.com/

[cerberusalert]

Lombard was a trading style of RBS. As of August 2009, Lombard Direct are not offering personal loans

[cerberusalert]

It is Arden's legal duty under CCA 1974 to fulfill your CCA request; send them this,

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

 

Account no

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated ........, the contents of which are noted

 

Your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On ......... I requested that ........... supply me a copy of the credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78. To date ........... have failed to comply with my request. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to .............., nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

 

Clearly as no agreement was supplied on request, this in no way complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

 

To clarify S.61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as ............... become compliant with my request. As ................ are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect

 

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

All collection activities cease with immediate effect until ............. comply with my request from .date........... or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

PRINT NAME DO NOT SIGN

[poppie173]

OOOPs ! I`ve already posted cheque and request to Lombard and a letter to Arden telling them I will no longer deal with them. I`ll give it the 12 days and see what Lombard come back with. If Arden respond to my letter should I then send them the account in dispute letter or Lombard?

By the way, a big thank you Cerberusalert for all your help!

[cerberusalert]

See what you get back and then we can take it from there.