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Daughter's Black Horse loan

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please can anyone help me.

i my daughter took out a loan for a car and has not been able to keep the payments up. the loan is a personal loan with black horse and now they have gone to court and the court have sent her forms out requesting she give them all my income and outgoing.

she is currently living with her boyfriend in rented property and he pays all of the bills from his job as she left work 3 months ago as she is pregnant but she has a mortgage on a house that that live in, we pay all the bills and mortgage for that house and no payments are behind and she is not behind with any other creditors only this car thing.

what I want to know is when she is filling in the admissions form for her income / outgoings it asks her about mortgage and then rent as part of her out goings, but the mortgage is covered by us therefore I believe she should not put that on the form as she is not paying it....what do you think..

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Hi Bill,

 

i my daughter took out a loan
You need to clarify - is this a joint loan for you and your daughter.

 

What stage is the court action at - ie has there been a hearing or judgement yet.

 

Was a defence made against the claim from the bank.

 

she has a mortgage on a house that that live in
Do you mean to say that YOU live in the house that YD owns.

 

Sorry to be pedantic but we must have the right info to give good opinion.

 

:)


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the car was bought for me for my birthday whenshe was dooing well and gave me the car,,,the loan she took was a persinal loan from black horse, they already applied to teh courts once and my daughter agrred to pay them 205 a monthand stuck with this but as i said before she is now prgenant and is not working and now she has missed the pauyments again so they have gone back to the courts agian and sent he the incone and expendeture sheets to fill in and return to court..

this time though she only has about 80 a week coming in from state child benifit an her boy friend pays for every thing she needs.

she rents the house they live in but before she moved in with him they stayed with us her parrents, the house is mortggaed by my daughter as originaly she was going to stay there with me and my wife, but things changes and she and boyfriend have moved out and have moved into there own rented place and he is paying for everything and the only money she has is child benifit..

the questions we would like to ask are as follows.

1, when she fills in the admission sheet does she fill in mortged or rented or both because technicaly she is mortgaging but she is not paying it, and the rent is being paid also..we have said that we will give 40 a month to give to black horse as take it or leave it

2 can black hores force a sale on the house and if they did a this forced the sale for less than the mortgage would the mortgage company let them do it.....please can you help me

bill

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Hi Bill,

 

I've moved the above posts to the Legal Issues forum as they have nowt to do with your Barclays thread. :)

 

If the Income and Exp're sheets ask for her outgoings, YD could reasonably state her rent she is paying and not the mortgage which you are paying on her house.

 

If the Income and Ex're forms ask about any property that YD owns, she should declare truthfully about the mortgaged house.

 

If Black Horse become aware that YD owns the house that you live in and pay the mortgage for, they could certainly seek a charging order against it if they get a CCJ for the BH debt.

 

Even if there's little or no equity in the mortgaged house now, they could still seek a CO to enforce either now or some time later, when the property's value may exceed the mortgage.

 

You should ensure YD defends properly re the BH claim. Have you checked that the loan agreement is fully in order and complies with the requirements of CCA1974.

 

See Link No5 in my signature below about checking this.

 

:)


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slick132 ,

 

thanks for this information guys,,black horses solicitors have already told us that the loan is indeed a tixed term loan agreement and is a persional loan..they said my daughter was free to sell the car, but as i have explaned here the car is actualy my car as i bought it of her as i have been clearing her mortgage and loans since she split from her x, the car has always been registered in my name and insured by me. i have asked the cab and they say that although the loan was taken out on the car this is a persional loan and not attached to the car, just like you taking out a loan for a set of windows for your house.

what i want to know is can they make me now sell the car...and if they take out a charge on the house they will not get anywhere as it has been up for sale for 2 years as it was bought as a new house and because the builder has gone bust we are now in negitave equity so currently they wont get anything.

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Hi Bill,

 

The car is irrelevant to this matter, as the CAB have already confirmed.

 

It's a personal loan between YD and the bank. If the agreed repayments are not maintained, then the bank will resort to court action.

 

Even if there is no equity in the ppty, they may still seek a CO to get their money later.

 

If you can't keep up the repayments now, you could still ask that any CCJ which the bank gets against YD, be paid off in manageable instalments. This may avoid a CO being sought.


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slick132 user-offline.png many thanks for this, i was already told that the car was mine and i just neeed a straight head on that as the car as always been in my name.

the househowever has no equity in it as the house prices have droped through the floor. now because there is no equity in the house and myself and her mum live there and pay all the houshold bills and mortgage. the house has been on sale for 26 months and had 1 person intrested so if BH can sell it quicker we would like to see it. what i would ask is though can bh make us sell it below market price as then the mortgage compny would not get there money back an this would leave my daughter with a big neg and then she would go bankrupt....so can they frce us and themortgage company sell the house at a loss just for the sake of doing it

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Hi Bill,

 

The banks, or the legal firms that take court action for them, do not always work logically. They will certainly threaten further legal action including an Application for a CO, even though they'd be unlikely to benefit from such action.

 

They would only go for a CO if YD lost in court and they have a CCJ against her and she failed to pay within the timescale set by the court. At that stage, you would have to review the situation.

 

What stage is the court action at now.

 

Did the bank get a CCJ against YD.

 

Is there a Redetermination Hearing set to review the payments because of YD's changed circumstances.

 

Have you checked the credit agreement to see if it looks enforceable using Link No5 in my sig're. I referred to this in post #4 above.


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when they started the acion i agreed to to help her pay as bh had siad to start with the agreement was a hp and they had gone to court to file the claim...after agreeing to pay 205 a month (because she was working then and we were helping her ou0 bh did not proceed and it was only then after questing them that we found out it was a persinal loan, they had agreed to give her 3 alternatives and these were 1, 7k to clear all off(couldent do it as we/she had not got the cash), refinance this over another 5 years at 205 a month(she had already paid of 23 months at 278) 3, go into a gargae that worked with bh and down size the car(this would of her taking out a new agreement and losing more money),,,we oppted for 2 but when they sent the agreements over they were just single sheet of photocpied agtreement a looked dodgy to say the least...this continued until march this year during this time we made monthly payments of the 205 although no agreement signed and we had paid them 205 until feb when we/she couldent pay anymore and after requesting the copy of the agreements consantly without them sending the full copy of the terms and agreements to us. we then sent them a subject to access and they have sent everything through now.

because we have missed the 205 payments now they have again applied to the court for the claim and my daughter has sent out to the court her new figures so we now i belive will wait to her from them when the court send them the details. my dauther has offer to pay them 40 a month but should we request that they freeze interest?

i have already had this agreement looked at by pinky on this forum about the initial black hores loan and taken there advice which i belive you can veiw on the black horse link, the problem is now as i have said the house has been up for sale for some 30 months and if sold now would only clear the mortgage/loan taken out to start with.

now the court admission forms have been sent back to admit the debt what do we do next???

thank you

bill

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sorry slick132 i forgot to ask, can bh force the sale of the house for less than the market value? they would be stupidy if they did as they would not get there money as i think the mortgage company would get there money first???

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Hi Bill,

 

You ask if BH could force a sale at less than the MV. In all the circumstances you describe, I would think it unlikely that they would force a sale at below MV.

 

However, this would depend on what you think the MV actually is. If the house has been on the market for for 30 months and not sold, clearly it is being marketed at more than it's true current MV.

 

Can you answer the Q's I posted above:-

 

1. Did the bank get a CCJ against YD.

 

2. Is there a Redetermination Hearing set to review the payments because of YD's changed circumstances.

 

3. Did YD defend or challenge the court claim in any way when it was first made.

 

Please give a link to the earlier thread that discussed the credit agreement. Or tell us what was said about the agreement at the time.

 

Because of the site upgrade, I can't search back for older threads just now.


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in answer to your 3 questions

1, no, no ccj yet as last time we agreed to pay them 205, but now she is not working and we have sent the courts admison form back offering to clear 40 a month, should we when they contact us back ask them to freeze the interest?

2, no, because no ccj has ever been taken out

3, no, as we thought it was a hp agreement and it was only admited to us that it was a persional loan after they applied to the court(it was their solicitors who told us) my daughter originaly took the loan out for the car as a suprise present for me (she could assord it then) i wish she had not, after talking with pinky on this site i belive the car belongs to me as it was registered in my name in the first instance and always has been.

with regards to the house, it was a new build in 2006 and the mortgage was a split i.e, the house cost 150k and the mortgage company lent her 143k as mortgage and 13k as un-secured loan at the same time. the house prices went up and the new houses selling on the estate in 2007 (the same type as this one) were 199k but prices have droped as there are 15 brand new houses unsold on this estate total on theis estate is 50. therefore we put the house on the market for 183 and we have kept droping the price and now its on for 157 to clear the mortgae.

the other link is below to the other car case

i hope this helps

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/250683-black-horse-personal-loan-new-post.html

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Hi Bill and thanks for linking the other thread, which I've read through.

 

It seems that the loan agreement was originally considered to be enforceable IF the case went to court.

 

However, since then, there was doubt about the agreement because BH supplied copies with different signatures. Have you resolved this issue yet or do you still think there are doubts about the loan agreement. This was addressed here on the other thread - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?250683-black-horse-%28is-it-a-personal-loan-or-is-it-a-hp-they-dont-seem-to-know&p=2863482&viewfull=1#post2863482 You suggested that the various documents may have been tampered with before they were sent to you.

 

If there remains doubt about the agreement itself, then YD should consider defending the case in court and NOT admitting the debt. This must be addressed first, so you can decide how best to proceed.


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i did a subject to access and they have sent all the documents and they seem in order so i would think the loan is enforcable, however if pinky is correct the loan is a persional loan and not secured on anything including the car or house?

please check the loan agreement as originaly i was told the car does belong to me?

i have been paying the mortgage for my daughter so far and the repayments on the car untill march, i will keep her paymnets up on the mortgage but i can not afford the repayments on the car as well......will i lose the car as well or is this true that the car does belong to me?

she has already sent in the admison documents to the court admiting the debt as she did b4 and we are waiting to here back from them

...

so the 2 items are as follows, 1 is the car mine or can bh get it of me??

2 this is the main one if the house does not sell quick can they force the sale and as i said b4 in this thread she is currently living in rented house, if the house sells then we will move out and the mortgae will be paid back. as i said b4 this as been on the market for 30 months so we have been activley trying to sell it

 

what are your thoughts??

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Hi Bill,

 

We seem to be covering old ground here.

 

The loan is a personal fixed sum loan between YD and the bank. Neither you, nor your car, are involved in the matter. If YD cannot pay the loan as agreed, the bank will pursue court action.

 

If YD fails to make an acceptable arrangement to repay the loan in instalments or as a lump sum F&F Settlement, the bank could take further action. But as has already been said, a court would be likely to accept a reasonable offer to pay off the loan, considering YD's circumstances.

 

Also, BH are unlikely to try and force a sale where they would get nothing.

 

If you sold the car, would it raise enough to be able to offer a F&F Settlement. Surely this would be the most logical move to protect YD's interests in the house. If you could make do without the car, or get a cheaper one just now, this would give you all some breathing space and remove a huge cloud from over your heads.


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we have already looked at selling the car, it is worth about 3500 the loan is near 10k , i asked them for a setlement figure last year b4 we started paying them the 205 a month and they would hav acepted 7k then so we tried to sell the car and at the time it was worth 6k and we tried to sell it a 5k and had no one.

although we have paid 205 a month 8-9 months they have only droped the money they want for f/f by 300.

you are 100% correct with what you say

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Oh well, it looks like you will have to concentrate on reaching agreement about the monthly payments.

 

Just try to get a figure that is manageable so you don't have to go through this process again.

 

Keep us updated.


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i thank u for your kind help.

we have offered them 40 a month until she can get thing sorted out. i am not sure what they do now,,do they write to us or the court saying yes or no to our offer??

once they have done this that it.

if they want to push it and they want to have both the car and have the forced sale below market price then my daughter will go bankrupt and the they will end up with nothing.

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You should hear from BH if they are willing to accept the £40 pm.


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what happens if a, they say no and b, if they dont send anything back?

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We can deal with that, IF it happens.

 

But it would show them in a bad light for not negotiating a suitable repayment plan.


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thank you slick132,

the reason i ask about them getting back to us is this, i told my daughter to post the court forms back by recorded delivery but she sent just by regular post.

although i would hope the court get this but how will i know the court have got it? wil the court write and aknowlage this? how long do you think it will take bh to write back???

bill

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I'd give the court a few days to receive and log the forms, then call them to check they arrived safely. I wouldn't worry about this though.

 

I'd give BH 14 days to respond, then follow up with a reminder.


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many thanks for your help. i will let you know what goes on:D

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hi slick132,

just to let you know that bh have accepted the offer of 40 a month,

should i write to them and tell them to freeze the interest, they have added their fees?

bill

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