Jump to content
Googley2

Newbie - Virgin/MBNA Credit Card - CCA

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 3626 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

After following some earlier advice I done my letters today with a £1 cheque to Virgin and Abbey. Now I have found both of the original Credit Agreements myself in an old file but will still post and ask for their copy (in case they dont have it). I was just about to scan it in when I opened the scanner and found the glass broke. Therefore I cant do that anymore until I can find a new scanner. I am going to detail the main points here to see if anyone can give me any advice so I can prepare for their answer (at the moment I have missed one payment and owe them £3,719).

 

LOOKS LIKE IT WAS OPENED IN OR BEFORE APRIL 2007.

 

-----------------------

 

CREDIT AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 TERMS AND CONDITIONS

 

This is a copy of the full set of the terms and conditions of the Virgin credit card (issued by MBNA Europe Bank Limited (the lender) referred to in your application. Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 we must give you this copy. We have also included details of MBNA's Payment Protection Cover (never taken that out with anyone).

 

MBNA'S name and address details

 

BOXED TEXT: This is a copy of your agreement for you to keep. It includes a notice about your cancellation rights which you should read.

 

IMPORTANT - YOU SHOULD READ THIS CAREFULLY - YOUR RIGHTS

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 covers this agreement and lays down certain requirements for your protection which must be satisfied when the agreement is made. If they are not, we cannot enforce the agreement against you without a court order.

The Act also gives you a number of rights. You have the right to settle this agreement at any time by giving notice in writing and paying off all amounts payable under the agreement. If you have obtained unsatisfactory goods or services under a transaction financed by this agreement, apart from any purchased out of a cash loan, you may have a right to sue the supplier, us or both. Similarly if the contract is not fulfilled, perhaps because the Supplier has gone out of business you may still be able to sue uis.

If you would like to know more about the protection and remedies provided under the Act, you should contact either your local Trading Standards Department or your nearest Citizens Advice Bureau.

 

Our customer service line - 0800 015 0306

 

1. Financial and related details

1a. We will choose your credit limit and tell you what it is. We may vary it any any time and write to let you know.

1b. We wil choose your first statement date. We will then produce your statements about one month apart. If you ask, we may change the statement date.

1c. By the payment due date shown on your statement each month you must pay:

- 2.25% of the balance (as long as its at least £5)

- the charges for the PP Cover etc.....................

- the balance on the statement if this is less than £5.00; whichever is the least

1d. The minimum payment you must make will be shown on your monthly statement. We may write to you allowing you to make a reduced monthly payment or we may give you a payment holiday, etc. etc...........

In all cases we will then charge a handling fee for balance transfers. etc etc....... We will charge an annual handling fee of £0.00

 

Then there is a few paragraphs of how they calculate interest and handling fees etc and a table showing the rates.

Para 2. How we work out your interest

 

Para 3 Charges

3a If you ask us to provide any documents such as copies of statements, vouchers and cheques or if you ask us to accept payment from you other than by cheque, direct debit or payment over the counter at a bank, you may have to pay our administation charges to cover our costs. We will tell you about these at the time.

3b. If you break this agreement you must pay

- £25 each time you payment has not reached your account within one day of your payment due date

- £25 each time a cheque, direct debit, a credit-card cheque or other item for payment is unpaid

- £25 each the the account balance goes over your credit limit (after taking into accounyet shown on any statement); and

- any other losses and costs we suffer as a result of you breaking this agreement.

These charges cover our costs and we will add them directly to your account. We may change the amount of these charges if we give you notice.

 

4. Additional cardholders (NONE)

 

5. Phone calls

We will monitor or record some phone calls

 

6 Keeping your account secure ........

 

7 Using your account ...............

 

8 Your balance

 

9 Statements

 

10 Loss, theft or Misuse

 

11 Personal Information

 

12 Optional Payment Protection Cover

 

13 Paying your balance

 

Then we have the usual clauses on the back of the agreement which I dont think you might need (Please inform me if I am wrong but my fingers are so tired now).

 

There is absolutley no personal information, dates, signatures and is basically a "standard" pre-printed piece of paper.

 

Can anyone please advise me if I should do anything about this ie is it enforceable as what I have learnt from other threads makes it seem not?

 

I have exactly the same form with Abbey so probably the same reply would suit both.

 

Thanks for any help and clarification.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What you made was a S78 request to MBNA for a 'copy' of the agreement.

 

Due to a recent test case ruling this is all MBNA have to provide under such a request. If you have found the original agreements that you signed it would be a good idea to post them up using photobucket or the like - minus your personal details. Whatever you do do not let MBNA know you have the originals because they may 'hang' themselves by producing some reconstituted crap that is not remotely related to what you have.

 

If you can afford it make a SAR to MBNA for all the documentation they hold on you (cost £10). This should throw up everything that MBNA have on you. But they do have 40 days to comply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is strictly no personal data on my agreement NOR any signature nor a place to sign, name or date. It is a pre-printed standard sheet, undated and unreferenced in any sort of way. Must be quite a few years old. I have now been given another scanner for my local Freegle group but will need a few days to post the agreement up for some further advice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then IMHO you must make a SAR as soon as possible to get all information that MBNA hold on you. Then if they do have a signed agreement on microfiche or elsewhere - this will reveal it. The S78 request you made costing £1 does not mean they have to provide this - only a 'true' copy and this does NOT have to have your signature on it!

 

It may be an idea to read up on the recent Carey case!

 

If you need a link to this I will try and dig it out for you but a quick search should find it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1) Well its 16th August today, both my £1 cheques were cashed in my bank on 11th August but I have received NOTHING on both accounts. Do I need to give them more time or should I do something else?

 

2) If I make a SAR to MBNA do I have to go one for each credit card and pay £10 each account or do I just have to do one in my own name?

 

3) Can someone please give me a link to the Carey case, I cant find it only references to it???

 

Thank you for your response.

Edited by Googley2
Extra info

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If both accounts are with MBNA and in your name one SAR is enough but make sure you ask for information about both. With Carey there is a pdf file somewhere on here. Hopefully some kind person can give you a link. If not post on the 'Legal issues' forum and ask for a link.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My next plan was to send this letter - it was an older one asking for a signed agreement but I have updated it a bit. Can someone please check it for me before it gets posted or link me to the exact letter to send as I have searched the Library templates for ages and threads and this is all I can come up with.

Thanks very much, going one to Virgin and one to MBNA as soon as I get the OK.

Account In Dispute

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I refer to my letter of 2 August 2010 for which I have not received any response. You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On 2 August 2010 I made a formal request for a true agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference. After cashing my cheque on 11 August 2010, you have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 19 August 2010.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

 

· You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

· You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

· You may not pass the account to a third party.

· You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

· You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have now had a reply albeit late from both Virgin and Abbey. I dont believe the documents they sent me are real but I need some expert opinion of whether these count as a CCA. Hopefully all this will work (forgive me if its doesnt) as I have spent the last 2 days teaching myself about scanning and uploading docs via the internet. I think you can zoom in on the small print in photobucket. I have also done a breakdown of the date codes on the various documents and none of it makes any sense - does anyone know better than me??????? Thanks (Sorry if its overkill but its best to see everything up front and then you can decide better on what would be my best path forward and what reply I should give to Virgin and Abbey. Ta.

 

Doc. No. Description Date/Code Etc

 

Scan1 Covering ltr from Virgin

Scan2 Signed CCA (1/3 page) Signed 09-03-05.

On top page is code VIR-201-sp 06/04

Underneath code SP11-04-? 802-D-VIR

Scan3 Rear Signed CCA (1/3 page) VIR-101-PP-01?

Scan4 CCA Blank copy, touch larger VIR-04/04

Scan5 Rear CCA Blank copy, bit larger VIR-101-P-02-04

Scan6 Supposedly terms & Conditions No. 4-11 02-2004

Scan7 Supposedly terms & Conditions No. 11-12 02-2004

Scan8 Supposedly terms & Conditions No. 13-19 02-2004

Scan9 Section 78 Questions from Virgin No. 1-5

Scan10 Section 78 Questions from Virgin No. 6

 

Scan Abbey1 Signed CCA (1/3 page) Dated 10-06-04 LA-04-046144-AB

Scan Abbey2 Rear Signed CCA (1/3 page) AB-191-F 01/04

ScanAbbey3 CCA Blank copy, touch larger Different page from above

supposed to be unsigned copy. No codes or dates

ScanAbbey4 Rear CCA Blank copy, bit larger AB-101-P 1/4

ScanAbbey5 Supposedly terms & Conditions No. 4-11B AB 01/04

ScanAbbey6 Supposedly terms & Conditions No. 11B-14 AB 01/04

ScanAbbey7 Supposedly terms & Conditions No. 15-19 AB 01/04

My t & c originally from Virgin VIR-PPC-01-05 TVF9X00159P

Rear my t&c originally from Virgin

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/Googleymugley/CCA%20Documents/scan1-1.jpg

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/Googleymugley/CCA%20Documents/scan2.jpg

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/Googleymugley/CCA%20Documents/scan3.jpg

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/Googleymugley/CCA%20Documents/scan4-2.jpg

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/Googleymugley/CCA%20Documents/scan5.jpg

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/Googleymugley/CCA%20Documents/scan6.jpg

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/Googleymugley/CCA%20Documents/scan7.jpg

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/Googleymugley/CCA%20Documents/scan8.jpg

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/Googleymugley/CCA%20Documents/scanmyTC.jpg

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/Googleymugley/CCA%20Documents/scanmyTC2.jpg

 

The abbey docs are now as follows but also contain the same standard stuff as above where not specified:

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/Googleymugley/CCA%20Documents/scanabbey1.jpg

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/Googleymugley/CCA%20Documents/scanabbey2.jpg

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/Googleymugley/CCA%20Documents/scanabbey3.jpg

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/Googleymugley/CCA%20Documents/scanabbey4.jpg

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/Googleymugley/CCA%20Documents/scanabbey5.jpg

 

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/Googleymugley/CCA%20Documents/scanabbey6.jpg

 

Thanks so much, your help is really appreciated - in fact its all I have got!!!

 

I have tried to do my own research on this site and I think (maybe wrong) that the following is a problem:

 

1) Date codes are all over the place and do NOT match the dates on my own T&C

 

2) The signatures provided are only on 1/3 of a page, surely that cant count as a full CCA, you can just see the cutting lines at the top of the page.

 

3) Prescribed terms:

- Amount of credit NO NONE SHOWN

- Repayments - NO NONE SHOWN

- Rate of interest - Not really, only generic ones in 1g but not for my limit of £4,000 - does this count????

- Credit limit - Yes

 

I am learning a lot - Never to be forgotten.

 

Thanks

Edited by Googley2
forgot text

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bump - Can someone please reply as its stressing me a lot. Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your really do need to make a SAR so you have copies of everything MBNA hold on you.

 

What is the status of the account now? Are you still making payments off the account.

 

You will find that as soon as the account goes into default MBNA will chase you through the system using either Optima or Reston's - that is, of course, if you own or have a mortgage on a property.

 

You may find it to your advantage to register with the CCCS or Community Legal Advice who will try and negotiate payments within your means. This MBNA will, as with me, probably refuse. But it does show that you are attempting to come to terms with your debt problem - something that will stand you in good stead if things result in court action.

 

Don't forget to keep all paperwork including the envelopes that MBNA or their representatives send you. You may already be in the incessant cycle of threatening and intimidating phone calls these people make - do not get involved with them on the phone and insist everything is in writing. Refuse to go through their security checks when they do call.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1) Will do a SAR to MBNA.

2) They have froze interest but I am still paying £25 and £20 on each account but need next statement to check that its frozen.

3) We do have a mortgage and they are aware of it as my husband spoke to them yesterday and they told him that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are currently in the very early days of anything happening so you have no need to start major worrying yet.

 

But what MBNA will do is chase you through the courts with the intention of obtaining a charging order on your home thus turning an unsecured loan into a secured one. But I stress that is a very long way down the line.

 

Your 'fun' will start when or if you receive the usual standard summons issued through the Northampton County Court. You probably have a few months still before that happens to you. In the meantime you need to read up on as much MBNA casework as you can and make notes of anything you think is relevent to yourself. You will find most MBNA cases follow a pattern so you can adapt information you find in the helpful threads to suit your particular case. Myself I have reached the Summary Judgement stage (hearing tomorrow) and I have received a lot of very helpful and important advice as I have gone along. Tomorrow I find out if my steep learning curve has been sufficient to get through this! If you have a read through my thread it will give you a good idea of what you will be facing:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?254011

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Help - can Abbey do this????????

 

I have received a letter today from Abbey (25 August 2010) dated 19 August. The contents of which I find quite shocking considering they have supposidly sent me my CCA in the documents scanned above which I really didnt believe were mine but no-one has looked at them yet.

 

-------

We apologise for the delay in responding to your request made under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("the Act"). We will write to you regarding your request in due course.

 

We note that your account was acquired from another lender some time ago. As such, we need to obtain documentation from that lender; as soon as this is received we will forward it to you.

 

In the meantime, you should continue to make payments to your account. We believe that this is consistent with the legal position (as recently confirmed in the case of McGuffick v the Royal Bank of Scotland plc) that, even in circumstances where a lender has not yet complied with a request under the Act, the lender can continue to demand that payments be made to the account, and any arrears will be reported to Credit Reference Agencies and the use of any card(s) may be withdrawn.

 

We acknowledge that some of our customers even when they borrow responsible, can fall into financial difficulty when circumstances are out of their control. We are committed to helping our customers get out of debt as quickly as their circumstances allow, and various repayment options can be discussed with our debt advisors on 0800 028 0690.

 

The Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS) provide a free on-line tool, the CCS Debt Remedy, which can tailor advice depending on individual circumstances. Details of how to contact them and other agencies are detailed below.

 

Ect. Ect. debt agencies.

 

Yours sincerely.

 

SURELY THEY CANT JUST GO TO ANOTHER COMPANY AND "BORROW" AN OLDER CCA AND MAKE IT STICK AS THEIR ONE???????????????????????? HELP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It depends whether it was actually taken over from someone else or not. I have several cards where the account has benn sold on. Goldfish being a prime example - which has changed hands at least twice since I opened the account.

 

Not sure about the reference to Mcguffick though.

 

Due to the Carey case lenders are taking (or trying to take) more and more liberties in regards of what they do or do not have to supply. Hence IMHO a SAR request is always a better line to go down (albeit a more expensive one) to obtain all the documentation a lender may hold on you. If you do not make a S78 request then the Carey case in theory should not apply to you.

 

I really would not panic about all this as the more rubbish they send to you the more they will contradict themselves and the more ammunition they will give to you if you come to the stage of fighting them in court.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi I have also received the same exact letter as above from MBNA in regards to my CCA request. The Card was intially from Abbey. I have now send them the letter account in dispute

 

Well I will now wait and see if they will produce anything. My next move is going for a SAR but I will wait for 21 days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as I can remember it was always a balance transfer that I did, I did previously have a Goldfish account but believe that was paid off and closed when I didnt need it any more but cant remember 100% as was pre 2004 and struggling now to remember this morning. Sure the old files are in the garage as hubby has to keep everything for 7 years for inland revenue purposes and he used my cc for business purposes.

 

Why send me all the above attachements and then send this??? I just dont understand their game - confused I am.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the SAR ready for posting in the morning before they have a chance to get anything from another company so they can then explain where it came from at a later date if needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cant believe I have had a letter today from Aegis Ltd (Debt Collectors?) acting on behalf of MBNA, dated 12 August 2010 received 4 September 2010, supposidly sent from Mumbai. I have only missed one part payment - why have they done this so fast????? Is it because I asked for the CCA???

 

Can someone please look at the attachments posted above to see if the CCA is enforceable or not as I would really like to issue a letter to them now saying Account in Dispute????

 

A quick reply would be appreciated as its eating away at me and making my illness worse due to stress.

 

Also does MBNA have the rights to pass my details to other countries where no data protection rights exist??? Can I put the account into dispute for that???

 

Thanks very much

Edited by Googley2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1) Will do a SAR to MBNA.

2) They have froze interest but I am still paying £25 and £20 on each account but need next statement to check that its frozen.

3) We do have a mortgage and they are aware of it as my husband spoke to them yesterday and they told him that.

 

If the card is in your name solely, then they have breached DPA 1998 rules by speaking to your Husband about the debt. In future you should politely tell any caller you are not prepared to discuss your financial circumstances on the phone and they must write to you.

 

Help - can Abbey do this????????

 

I have received a letter today from Abbey (25 August 2010) dated 19 August. The contents of which I find quite shocking considering they have supposidly sent me my CCA in the documents scanned above which I really didnt believe were mine but no-one has looked at them yet.

 

-------

We apologise for the delay in responding to your request made under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("the Act"). We will write to you regarding your request in due course.

 

We note that your account was acquired from another lender some time ago. As such, we need to obtain documentation from that lender; as soon as this is received we will forward it to you.

 

In the meantime, you should continue to make payments to your account. We believe that this is consistent with the legal position (as recently confirmed in the case of McGuffick v the Royal Bank of Scotland plc) that, even in circumstances where a lender has not yet complied with a request under the Act, the lender can continue to demand that payments be made to the account, and any arrears will be reported to Credit Reference Agencies and the use of any card(s) may be withdrawn.

 

We acknowledge that some of our customers even when they borrow responsible, can fall into financial difficulty when circumstances are out of their control. We are committed to helping our customers get out of debt as quickly as their circumstances allow, and various repayment options can be discussed with our debt advisors on 0800 028 0690.

 

The Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS) provide a free on-line tool, the CCS Debt Remedy, which can tailor advice depending on individual circumstances. Details of how to contact them and other agencies are detailed below.

 

Ect. Ect. debt agencies.

 

Yours sincerely.

 

SURELY THEY CANT JUST GO TO ANOTHER COMPANY AND "BORROW" AN OLDER CCA AND MAKE IT STICK AS THEIR ONE???????????????????????? HELP

 

 

If the account was originally taken out with another lender, then they must obtain the CCA from them. But if you say you did a balance transfer to another lender, then the original account should have been closed and a new account opened with new documents for the new account.

 

The link below is the carey judgement in full

 

 

 

 

Be sure to note points: 95 - 105, 112, 116 and the conclusions

 

The above information provided by vint1954.

What needs to be provided for a CCA 1974 request and what is required for court are two different things.

 

Have you checked the information you have been provided against the information you already have ? What you need to be careful of is.. that whilst they may not have provided you with the information that they will require in court. They may be able to provide it for court should it get that far.

 

I dont quite understand why a DCA would be writing to you when you have only missed a part payment. You do not need to respond to any letters outside the UK.

 

 

 


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...