Parking PCN Code 02 - any hope of cancellation?

[parklife32]

Hi all,

 

This morning I parked on a Manchester street that I've parked on without trouble many times before. I was a bit annoyed and confused to find a PCN when I returned. I usually park there later in the day and wasn't aware it was restricted (although I had noticed yellow lines on the pavement but didn't know what they meant).

 

The PCN states Code 02: "Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restriction are in force."

 

I'll check properly tomorrow but after receiving the ticket, I looked for a sign and sure enough it is restricted 8am-9.30am.

 

My question is this... I was able to purchase a ticket from the machine even though it was during restricted hours. This seems highly unfair and stinks of blatant profiteering. Is there any grounds for cancellation when the machine still issues tickets during restricted hours?

 

Any help and advice is greatly appreciated. I'd love to get the fine cancelled, but at the very least I want my 2 quid back from the ticket machine!!

 

Thanks

PL

[Jamberson]

A better description of the area would help.

 

Were there pay & display bays in the street?

Did you park in one?

If not, where did you park in relation to the bays?

If you parked adjacent to the kerb, was there a single/double yellow line along the side of the road?

Were the "yellow lines on the pavement" in the form of little chevrons painted on the kerb?

 

It may also help if you could give the exact location, so that someone can look at a satellite photo of the area.

 

(I am presuming you did park between the hours 8am and 9.30am.)

[parklife32]

Hi, thanks for the reply. Here's a link to the site on Google Streetview.

 

I was parked in the bays to the right of the sign at around 9.15am

 

Deansgate, Manchester - Google Maps

 

Thanks for your help!

[desperatedad]

Ths sign clearly says no waiting (at the time and day) where you parked, thus the ticket is on that point valid.

[Jamberson]

The sign appears contradictory and is unclear as to what the rules are.

 

The yellow plate with the "no waiting" symbol has an arrow pointing towards the parking bays. If the PCN was issued when parked in the bays, then the CEO judged that that sign is intended to apply to the bays.

 

That being the case, the sign also has the hours of the loading ban, including a ban at 4.30 to 5pm.

 

The bay itself allows for paid parking until 6pm, so the loading ban cannot apply to the bays at 4.30.

 

So I suppose the driver is meant to observe the top, yellow plate, and the bottom pay & display notice, but not the middle loading ban one?

 

I think you can appeal on the basis that the signage is unclear.

[parklife32]

Thanks for your advice. What about the fact I was still able to purchase a valid ticket during restricted hours. That doesn't seem fair to me and would obviously have parked elsewhere if I'd been refused a ticket. Is there any rule about that?

 

Thanks again

[Jamberson]

I am not aware of any rules regarding that sort of thing. However it adds weight to the argument that the particulars of the restriction are confusing.

 

The signs may even be invalid due to the confusing way they are arranged - someone else on here may be able to advise if that's the case.

 

If not, you can still appeal on the unclear signs argument, and include the fact that you were issued a pay & display ticket for parking during a period in which the CEO says parking is not permitted.

[desperatedad]

Am I looking at the same photogarph? What is confusing about the signage? It very clearly says no waiting at the time and place that you were parked.

 

Just because you can buy a ticket, doesn't mean that you should! There is a car park near me that has the barrier closed at night. You could still climb over the barrier and buy a ticket. It also wouldn't be any use.

[green_and_mean]

The sign is also non compliant which should add weight to your argument as it should be one big sign with three sections. The yellow line is also non compliant since the section between the P&d bays is CPZ hours only the yellow line in the direction of the arrows is at the time on the sign there should therefore be T bars adjacent to the post to indicate the changeover point.

[sailor sam]

I'm not sure that the sign is in the right place. Surely it should be in line with the end of the bays. It is clearly about half a car length away from the start of the bay so being pedantic, you could argue that it only relates to the area between the sign and the parking bay! However, the sign at the other end of the bays appears to be correct. As for the yellow line; it should not run through the parking bays but should terminate at the start of the parking bay as the area is within a CPZ.

 

In any case, it would be interesting to see the time restrictions on the CPZ sign, unfortunately I cannot read them.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

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[green_and_mean]

As for the yellow line; it should not run through the parking bays but should terminate at the start of the parking bay as the area is within a CPZ.

 

In any case, it would be interesting to see the time restrictions on the CPZ sign, unfortunately I cannot read them.

 

 

What has being in a CPZ got to do with not having a yellow line through the bay, there is no connection between the CPZ and where a yellow line should be?

 

What has the hours of the CPZ got to do with this restriction, a CPZ entry sign only applies to unplated SYL which is not the case here as there are clearly time plates present.

[sailor sam]

What has being in a CPZ got to do with not having a yellow line through the bay, there is no connection between the CPZ and where a yellow line should be?

 

What has the hours of the CPZ got to do with this restriction, a CPZ entry sign only applies to unplated SYL which is not the case here as there are clearly time plates present.

 

Did I say it did?

 

And you havn't criticised my point about the position of the sign G & M.... you must be slipping.

 

In any event, i'm not going to be drawn into a further 'debate' with you.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[green_and_mean]

Did I say it did?

 

And you havn't criticised my point about the position of the sign G & M.... you must be slipping.

 

In any event, i'm not going to be drawn into a further 'debate' with you.

 

 

I was not opening a debate just correcting you poor advice.

[Jamberson]

Am I looking at the same photogarph? What is confusing about the signage? It very clearly says no waiting at the time and place that you were parked.

 

Yes it does, and were that the only sign, I would agree it is clear.

 

But it is the rest of the info which makes it ambiguous. Beneath "no waiting" is a supplemetary "no loading" restriction, which cannot apply to the bays as it stipulates a loading ban during parking hours.

 

So, you have to make a judgement on whether the yellow sign applies to the parking bays, unlike the one beneath it, or whether it refers just to the yellow line outside of the parking spaces. It makes the bay restriction overall ambiguous (which is what I mean when I say confusing).

[parklife32]

Thanks again for your advice so far. I went back today and took some photos of the signs. I admit that the sign next to the bays does say it's restricted until 9.30am. However, at the end of the bays, as you drive into the zone, the main sign quite clearly says 'Pay and Display Zone' Mon-Fri 8am-6pm.

 

Do you think I have a case to appeal?

 

 

Thanks again

[Jamberson]

Yes! Appeal it - if you lose, you can decide whether to take it further, but definitely appeal.

[parklife32]

OK, I'm confused. The ticket appears to have come from Salford City Council with their logo at the top, but the bottom of the slip states "Issued by NSL Services Group on Behalf of Salford City Council" (previously NCP). Is this a private parking company, or do they have full jurisdiction of the council in this case?

[lamma]

yes. its outsourced. this is a council PCN.

[Jamberson]

Council employes a private company to do the foot work. It's normal and legal - it's so they can do it on the cheap.