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eBay seller threatening court case on buy it now car.


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Is there any argument that there was no consideration in this case?

 

Sort of. Perpx is arguing that there is a contract between the buyer and ebay and that the buyer can cancel this contract with the dsrs to effect a cancellation of the consumer to consumer sale of the car.

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Sort of. Perpx is arguing that there is a contract between the buyer and ebay and that the buyer can cancel this contract with the dsrs to effect a cancellation of the consumer to consumer sale of the car.

 

:rolleyes:

 

For those who have yet to understand how eBay works, the rules that every member agrees to require that a buyer completes a transaction when a bid is made, which is therefore, self evidently, a consideration of some considerable value, granted to eBay by the buyer.

 

Not only do the sellers especially elect to sell on eBay because they expect the rule to be respected, they expect eBay to enforce the consideration, by sanctioning against a member who refuses to honour bids that are made, so eBay continues to thrive because of it.

 

However, on the odd occasion where eBay fails to persuade a bidder to complete a sale, so a seller proceeds instead to a court of law to make a claim against a buyer,

it is therefore the eBay rule that a seller enforces, as a third party, and the same goes for a buyer let down by a seller. It is especially because of the existence of the User Agreement that an eBay listing amounts to a binding contract, per se, not just an advertisement to announce that goods are for sale.

 

Where this sort of thing has happened before the court proceeds to examine the way that eBay works to settle the issue. Should a seller rather attempt to treat a sale on eBay as a private affair, regardless of the User Agreement, the seller fails.

 

The effect of the User Agreement is not so clear when a "classified" listing begets a private offer to a seller, because a consumer sale by its very nature is an offer made with the same terms available to a general market, but that would be for a judge to decide.

 

I am not aware of a precedent to rely upon about this in particular.

 

:Cry:

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Right... well I am not to sure about that Perplexity.

 

I am sure that Ebay has it's own policies, but what we are dealing with here is a contract between the OP and a private seller. I can't understand how you jumped to the conclusion that ebay was the seller... and thus the DSRs could apply.

 

Besides, we have had cases here before where a seller has sought to enforce a contract made on ebay. The court usually treats it as a simple contract matter.

 

I think we may be complicating the issue for the OP by trying to involve ebay etc. Speaking of the OP... I wonder if he ever received a claim form!?

Warning: Freemen of the Land Operate here. Think twice before accepting 'legal advice'.

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I am sure that Ebay has it's own policies, but what we are dealing with here is a contract between the OP and a private seller. I can't understand how you jumped to the conclusion that ebay was the seller... and thus the DSRs could apply.

 

:shock:

 

eBay is not the seller. eBay supplies the service.

 

The DSRs do not require that the relevant contract is a contract to sell, nor do they refer to a seller.

 

The contract is "any contract concerning goods or services concluded between a supplier and a consumer under an organised distance sales or service provision scheme run by the supplier..." which the eBay User Agreement is.

 

Were there only ever to be one person to supply and the same person to sell, with no more than one contract to consider, recital (10) of the EU Distance Selling Directive 97/7/EC would fail to make sense:

 

.... there must at least be compliance with the provisions of this Directive at the time of the first of a series of successive operations or the first of a series of separate operations over a period of time which may be considered as forming a whole, whether that operation or series of operations are the subject of a single contract or successive, separate contracts;
With due regard to online User Agreements recital [18] also provides that:

 

..... it is important for the minimum binding rules contained in this Directive to be supplemented where appropriate by voluntary arrangements among the traders concerned, ....

The intention of the Directive is obviously not therefore to treat concerned traders discretely, as private individuals.

---------

I have also heard of cases where a seller sought to enforce a contract made on ebay and the court did indeed treat it as a simple contract matter, which should not be so much of a surprise when a buyer fails at any stage to mention the right to cancel.

 

It's the duty of a supplier to inform that the right to cancel exists but it is not the duty of a court to cancel on behalf of a buyer. That's for the buyer to do for himself, and the intention to cancel must be formally expressed.

 

At any rate I see nothing for a buyer to lose by doing so. An exception to the Regulations would have to be proved by the seller. The default position is that the Regulations apply to any distance contract.

 

:cool:

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MM - I've really tried to explain this to him. I don't seem to be able to get through. Give it a whiz if you think you can do any better.

 

For any other posters - Perpx is wrong. Follow his advice at your risk.

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MM - I've really tried to explain this to him. I don't seem to be able to get through. Give it a whiz if you think you can do any better.

 

For any other posters - Perpx is wrong. Follow his advice at your risk.

....

 

Never mind the non sequitur; the advice I am offering is to read the EU Directive and the UK Regulations and to believe what they say.

 

Otherwise, I had never expected anybody to accept anything without examining the evidence to see for themselves.

 

It is then for impartial readers to decide for themselves what to trust, the terms of the law as it stands for all to see, or whatever else which is not a matter for judicial notice when it gets to a court for a judge to decide.

 

---------------

 

If a "private" seller believes (as they usually do) that it should rather be for a buyer to prove that the Regulations apply, refer to recital (22) of the Directive 97/7/EC:

 

Whereas in the use of new technologies the consumer is not in control of the means of communication used; whereas it is therefore necessary to provide that the burden of proof may be on the supplier;

:p
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This pretty much sums it up, you can use prettysemantics until the 'cows come home'. Lets see what happens.

 

Somewhere in eBay motors - where you can't miss it apparently, it clearly states that selling a car on eBay falls under the non-binding transaction rule.

 

It's also mentioned here and sellers list their cars on eBay under this part of the User Agreement:

 

eBay User Agreement

 

Liability:

 

For certain categories, particularly motors and real estate, or bid or offer is a non-binding transaction representing a buyer’s serious expression of interest in buying the seller’s item.

 

 

This also has some information which may help in the section at the bottom:

 

classified ad policy

 

The Classified Ad listing category gives sellers a way to list items, services, or property for sale to generate multiple leads or potential buyers in specific categories. While this format does not enable buyers and sellers to complete transactions online through eBay, eBay’s policies continue to apply to maintain the trust and legitimacy of eBay’s marketplace.

 

In other words - I think this reinforces the bit about it being non-binding.

 

So, the seller listed his car under these terms set by eBay.

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We're all getting tied up with only the minimum of information from the OP who would now appear to have left his thread.

 

The car was listed as a classified advert on ebay who always state that they are ''only a venue''

 

The car was listed at a set price.

 

The OP made an email bid outside of ebay.

 

How much time elapsed between the offer and the email acceptance is not known as the OP has not given that information.

 

How long before the seller emailed again asking for payment is unknown.

 

Etc.etc.---we are all offering advice or stating opinions based on a very limited and one sided amount of accurate information.

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What the Fudge is fippled? According to google it was something to do with a flute or a whistle.

 

Apologies for not explaining earlier.

'Fipple' was an eBay member who posted quite regularly on the Q+A using very long quotes from webpages full of legal details.

Normally it would be repeatedly quoting sections of legal text, usually the Enterprise Act or the EU directive, in an attempt to prove that there was no such thing as a private seller, every seller was a 'trader' and the DSR's applied to every sale.

Regardless of the validity of any contents, the appearance of this poster or the pasting of large sections of text became known as 'fippling' and having this poster give advice regarding the DSR's ect became known as having your thread 'fippled'.

I was wondering why they had been so quite of late.

:p

 

On topic I am curious as to wether this seller is actually going to try to go through with the whole court thing, or if perhaps they will make the threat and possibly file papers as a further threat but drop it before it gets before a judge.

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Hello, sorry for the gap in getting back to you, I have been on holiday and not trying to think about this situation.

 

In the time i have spoken to you all I have received 3 emails from the seller of the car. I have responded to the seller as suggested but he is now talking to himself.

 

1. Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:09 PM Thanks for the update. As indicated last week, I will submit the county court application tomorrow unless we can resolve this in an amicable manner as outlined in previous mails. I will hold off until COB tomorrow for your response. As indicated previously, it would be my preference to resolve this out of court, however as I have incurred real costs these must be ratified.

 

2. Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 7:09 AM I was expecting to hear back from you yesterday but it seems that again I have overestimated your honesty.

 

This really is it, I have tried and tried to avoid court action as the last thing I want is to have to waste another day of my life in a court room but you leave me with no option. I will give you a final 24 hours to resolve this amicably, and I would really encourage you to take this seriously as a county court judgement will impair your ability to raise any kind of credit in the future and coming to an agreement now will be cheaper.

 

I would very much like to put a line under all of this you know where my offer and terms are. Happy to discuss at your convinience over the next 24 hours, but that is it, I cannot waste any more time on this, then I file the papers.

 

3. Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 8:10 PM Can I assume that the lack of response indicates another failure to do what you agreed to?

 

Application is in the post tomorrow if I have not heard from you by then. Great big waste of my time. I have tried and tried to sort this out with you but clearly I am just wasting my time. You have not even bothered to discuss or propose a counter offer.

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We're all getting tied up with only the minimum of information from the OP who would now appear to have left his thread.

 

The car was listed as a classified advert on ebay who always state that they are ''only a venue''

 

Correct

 

The car was listed at a set price.

 

The car also had a best offer price which is what I used.

 

The OP made an email bid outside of ebay.

 

That is not true I made a bid using the ebay system.

 

How much time elapsed between the offer and the email acceptance is not known as the OP has not given that information.

 

How long before the seller emailed again asking for payment is unknown.

 

Etc.etc.---we are all offering advice or stating opinions based on a very limited and one sided amount of accurate information.

 

I will supply any information that you guys need, i have no reason to mislead with any information as I need accurate advice as this may goto court.

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The car also had a best offer price which is what I used.

 

I am as bewildered as ever by that.

 

A best offer would usually be a buyer's offer of a price he is willing to pay, formally submitted by way of the facility especially provided by eBay, with a seller's listing, not a price that an item for sale would have.

 

:confused:

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Sounds like a DCA threatening you with court on a parking invoice. As he has threatened but not done it, I doubt if it will go to court. Besides he now has had more than ample opportunity to re-sell and will be questioned why he did nto re-sell and claim for daamages suffered, i.e. cost of running anothe advert plus time. I don't think he has a hope in hell of making a solid case without making a fool of himself.

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He proceeded to keep ringing me back with new threats like contacting my employer to tell them I am a lier and to watch my back. I ended up getting my number changed because of all the calls.

 

Now the seller is saying he is going to take to court to either get me to buy the car or to pay his costs unless I pay him £100 cash.

 

This is an interesting situation.

 

Did the seller actually say 'unless'? Did they by any chance put that it writing? The number you had changed, was it your home number or a mobile?

 

What, if anything, has this seller put in writing to you?

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Ah, just read a bit more (good idea really!).

 

The first written nonsense from him, which you have posted up in red is all I need to read. He is a bedroom lawyer basically. Thinks he knows but doesn't. Bottom line is there is no contract. Did you see the car? No? Then it is subject to his description being highly accurate. As you haven't seen the car you cannot tell if it is or isn't. He is a genuine Bengal Lancer and trying his sorry, scruffy, scrawny luck.

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This is an interesting situation.

 

Did the seller actually say 'unless'? Did they by any chance put that it writing? The number you had changed, was it your home number or a mobile?

 

What, if anything, has this seller put in writing to you?

 

I have all the emails and he does use the word unless. I also have voicemails from him to my mobile number that I changed because of his harrassing and abusive phone calls.

 

The seller has not put anything in a letter yet but all his communication has been through email and through the ebay mail system.

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Well, demanding money 'or I will......' is blackmail or possibly demanding money with menaces and is a criminal offence. I would certainly rerport this to the police and get a crime number.

 

Print out all the e-mails and file them. Write a transcript of messages and ideally record them onto a CD, even just using a webcam mic so you have a copy incase your phone account shuts down or deletes them.

 

IF this muppet does go down the court route, a judge will view his actions very badly inedeed.

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I've been saying the same thing for some time, This guy is trying to extort money, good post.

 

Well, demanding money 'or I will......' is blackmail or possibly demanding money with menaces and is a criminal offence. I would certainly rerport this to the police and get a crime number.

 

Print out all the e-mails and file them. Write a transcript of messages and ideally record them onto a CD, even just using a webcam mic so you have a copy incase your phone account shuts down or deletes them.

 

IF this muppet does go down the court route, a judge will view his actions very badly inedeed.

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I have all the emails and he does use the word unless. I also have voicemails from him to my mobile number that I changed because of his harrassing and abusive phone calls.

 

The seller has not put anything in a letter yet but all his communication has been through email and through the ebay mail system.

 

If hes told you to watch your back I'd advise that you go to the police a report him They claim there's nowt they can do but you never know they may get a local copper to go round & mark his card

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