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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Dealer registered MY new car..without having it!


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Back at the start of July, I decided the house would look much nicer with a nice shiney new car parked outside. So off to the main dealers I went, knowing exactly what make/model/engine/coulor/options I wanted.

Turneds out a factory build would have take quite a while, so the dealer managed to find a car in the 'computer' of the right model/engine/colour. It was in Scotland. I was happy to do without the options in lieu of a quick delivery date and a discount, so paid a deposit with delivery agreed for mid-July.

 

A few days later the dealer contacted me to say another dealer had sold the car prior to them getting it allocated to them. But it wasnt a problem as there was another one 'just been built Sir at Germany and the Genrman ones are better anyway'.

 

Delivery was still estimated at around 2 weeks so I was OK with this. At the dealers request I gave them a cheque for the balance of the car in mid-July.

 

I chased things up a week later and the delievery had slipped by a week. I chased up the following week and delivery was promised for today. Yesterday the dealer gave me the registration number and told me to organise the 7day free insurance that came with the car so it started today.

 

Lovely I thought, but when I phoned them this morning...lo and behold the car hadnt been sent to the dealer from Ford. I pressed them on this, and several phone calls later it appears that the dealer has NO IDEA when the car is going to be supplied to them!!! Could be next week or even next month. He says he still 'hopes' it will turn up tomorrow. But when pressed this isnt based on any information or facts. Completely unbelieveable!!! (I win the lottery on Saturday but I dout it will happen)

 

I'm absolutely amazed the dealer has registered the car without even knowing when it will be supplied to them! I know they have monthly targets but this is stretching it a little! I have asked for it to be 'unregistered' and the car held back for a 60 plate...but apparntly (as I suspected) this is impossible. So they were happy to register a (MY) car that for all they know they wont get until September when it will have an obsolete plate! UNBELIEVEABLE!

 

Also I am now losing my free 7 days insurance (now at 6 days and counting) and my 3yr warranty has already started. Im also worried that the dealer has many thousands of my pounds sitting in their bank account and no sniff of a car! Theyre quite a big dealer group but in todays world whos to say that they wont go under tomorrow taking my money with them?

 

The best the dealer can say is that the car is in a compound in Scotland and they will plate it up and prep it thew same day it comes in. Obviously Im now far from happy with this! My new car (fully paid for) is god knows where and no one can tell me when I will get it. Ive mentioned cancelling but as Ive paid obviously the dealer isnt all that interested in customer service.

 

Ive got some ideas of what I do next but any opinions anyone has more than welcome!

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Easy one this daveyboy. Any unsold stock at any dealer in the UK, or any holding compound for that, is fair game for any dealer. They have a buyer with an order so they can legitimally knab the car. Works quite well actually.

 

The problem comes with the logistics. The car movements around the UK are controlled (or they always used to be) from Brentwood so they will put your car on a list and when a space on a transporter comes available your car will be allocated it. Sold units do take preference. So whilst your car is sold there might be a lot of others as well. It's a bit like a conveyor belt. It does work but their always used to be an issue towards the end of a month as dealers pre registered units to get the bonus for hitting targets.

 

Salespeople cannot control this process but what you should do is is ask the dealers general manager to call Sales support or the regional sales manager for Ford in Brentwood and insist it's on the next transporter or one within reasonable distance of the dealer in Scotland. It should then appear at your dealer quite quickly.

 

You don't need to worry about your 3 year warranty as this only starts from the moment you drive off the forecourt.

 

Your insurance though puzzles me. 7 days insurance???????? What's that all about?

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Hi,

 

I work used to work in Sales Admin for a Ford Dealership in Dorset and it was not uncommon for the Sales Manager to ask us to register cars that have yet to be delivered, even if the customer has not been told that the car has been delayed. (a practice I do not agree with)

Unfortunately, once a car is registered it is nigh upon impossible to get the DVLA to de-register the vehicle and the car sits there on the plate that it has been given.

As for when your dealership will get the car can be difficult to judge.

The 'system' will give an estimated delivery date however Ford Motor Company can change this at their will due to build delays, shipping problems.

However, you should push the Sales Manager to call Ford and push the delivery through, which can be done. This will decrease delivery by a few days.

As for your 7 days Ford Insure, don't worry it can be started again once the car is delivered.

As for the warranty, you need to make sure that your Dealership give you a free 3 month warranty to begin when the Ford Warranty ends.

Also, i'm unsure as to why you were told your car is in a compound in Scotland if it was 'just built in Germany'. New cars are shipped to the South East Coast and then delivered to the dealerships from there.

I know it is a mute point now but you shouldn't have paid the balance until the car was delivered and inspected by you. I expect you were asked to pay early to complete the Sales Persons / Managers monthly targets.

As for cancelling the order and getting a refund, I would expect that to be a major battle.

I may not have helped a great deal but I hope that I have given you a bit more information.

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Thank for the quick reply heliosuk.

 

I suspected that it should have been an easy case of chasing it up. Trouble is that my dealer has apparantly been chasing things up all day and still cant tell me when they will get it. Plus the car has come from the factory in Germany...is in Scotland...but Im in South Wales? It all sounds a bit fishy to me... But there must be a physical car someone or it wouldnt be able to have been registered? (VIN number etc)

 

The insurance reference is that the car comes with 7 days free insurance. Which started today. Althrough its not that important as I have fully comp car insurance anyway the dealer didnt know that. So the the dealer telling me to start the 7 days today effectively means that Im not getting this free insurance. As I said, its not that important to me, but it could have been to someone else so its just the principle really.

 

Reassuring about the warranty through, althrough when I come to selling the car the logbook will show it as older than it really is. And if it doesnt come in within the next month (But I think I'll have gone round the bend by then!) It'll be a 10 plate when it should be a 60 plate...severely devaluing it.

 

Plus no-one will never believe I didnt buy a second hand car lol ;)

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Thanks for the info Uppleby10. Thats actually pretty much exactly as I suspected had happened. It is actually a Ford Ive bought so interesting to hear the compound is on the South East Coast. I did think it was odd that theyd ship them to Scotland so thanks for confirming that.

 

I think I need to go into the dealers tomorrow and ask very loudly in front of other customers why theyve been lying to me and what are they going to do!

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Hi Heliosuk,

 

Just to confirm, the 3 year warranty starts at the point of registration as Ford are fed the information from AFRL and start the warranty themselves.

 

Sorry uppleby, that's not correct. It's from the date of delivery to the customer. AWS which dealers won't have access to, records this based on a feed from AFRL.

 

From a legal perspective, it has to as well.

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Your insurance though puzzles me. 7 days insurance???????? What's that all about?

 

Most (if not all?) of the main dealers offer "7 days free cover" on new or used cars they sell. How it works is you are given an insurance company number to ring, I think the last one I got off Vauxhall was Zurich Insurance. You ring them up, supply them with the "dealer code" you were given, and have to suffer their standard sales pitch for about the next 10 minues! They give you their insurance quote for a full year and hope you will accept it there and then (which of course you don't). Part of the "deal" in you ringing and getting a quote is they then provide 7 days free cover on your new car, a copy of which is e-mailed to the dealer and they use this insurance to tax your car ready for collection.

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Thank for the quick reply heliosuk.

 

Reassuring about the warranty through, althrough when I come to selling the car the logbook will show it as older than it really is. And if it doesnt come in within the next month (But I think I'll have gone round the bend by then!) It'll be a 10 plate when it should be a 60 plate...severely devaluing it.

 

Plus no-one will never believe I didnt buy a second hand car lol ;)

 

Are you saying you thought it would be delivered on a 60 plate as if you were then you've got a major problem and the dealer has as well. They cannot register a 60 plate until August and it cannot be used on the road until 1st September.

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The insurance reference is that the car comes with 7 days free insurance. Which started today. Althrough its not that important as I have fully comp car insurance anyway the dealer didnt know that. So the the dealer telling me to start the 7 days today effectively means that Im not getting this free insurance.

 

That nearly happened to me once, when the car wasn't ready as expected so the 7 days was running out. When speaking to the dealer she said, "don't worry, we've got a couple of companies we can use so Ill just give you another number to start a new 7 days insurance on." :D

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Are you saying you thought it would be delivered on a 60 plate as if you were then you've got a major problem and the dealer has as well. They cannot register a 60 plate until August and it cannot be used on the road until 1st September.

 

No, what daveyboy means I think is he has bought a 10 plate which should be delivered now. If they continue to pi$$ about till September, that will mean he will be supplied a 10 plate in Sept when his BRAND NEW car, delivered in Sept should be a 60 plate.

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No, what daveyboy means I think is he has bought a 10 plate which should be delivered now. If they continue to pi$$ about till September, that will mean he will be supplied a 10 plate in Sept when his BRAND NEW car, delivered in Sept should be a 60 plate.

 

Correct!! Its quite a worrying thought hence I need to get it sorted now with no more pi$$ing about!

 

And yeh, the insurance kept me on the phone for ages offering me 'cheap' insurance at twice the price I pay for my current car which is around 6 groups higher! Interesting they said that one of the standards benefits was a 'new for old' policy while the car was less than 1 year old...making me wonder why the dealer tried to sell me GAP insurance???

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Ahh sooooooo. Good stuff this.

 

Go and tell dealer you want delivery on Saturday or will automatically reject the car based on the 1 month devaluation. Conniff and the legal boys know about the implications of this but it actually could be worth your while not taking delivery to later in the week if you box clever.

 

You could negotiate some goodies out of this if you can afford the delay. Don't forget to take into account the lost RFL which would have been paid for from the 1st of this month!!!

 

Then there is the "my wifes in tears because of this" scenario etc etc......:D

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Ahh sooooooo. Good stuff this.

 

Go and tell dealer you want delivery on Saturday or will automatically reject the car based on the 1 month devaluation.

 

AAAh now that sounds like the kind of stuff I can use to get the dealer to see sense. Any idea where I can get some more info on this?

 

Not to worried about RFL as its only £35 per year but its still a good point

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Just look it up on dealer sites. You'll see cars with delivery mileage only that were registered at considerable discounts. The problem not stated is though that technically they are then used and you become the second owner which also has an effect on value.

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I have 2 questions on this; Why did the OP pay the balance before taking inspecting the car and taking delivery? I can't remember that happening at the dealers I used to work for. Also how can you register a car without the VIN/engine numbers? In my experience of working at a Ford dealership, the car remains the property of the maunfacturer until it is registered. Ford's dealer network are able to 'swop' cars amongst themselves as 'dealer transfers' to meet customer requirements but i've never heard of a car being registerd by a dealer before it is actually delivered to them although they can 'allocate' a VRM from their DVLA allocation. As Helio has said, when a new year reg comes out, the car cannot be registerd until 14 days prior to the day the new mark becomes vaild. I doubt if the DVLA will release the dealer's VRM allocations untill about then anyway.

 

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Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

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Heliosuk,

 

Thanks for letting me know how and when the warranty begins.

Just goes to show that my training wasn't up to scratch !!

 

Daveyboy996,

 

Let us know how you get on when you go to the Dealership.

Looks like you are getting lots of useful info here.

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And yeh, the insurance kept me on the phone for ages offering me 'cheap' insurance at twice the price I pay for my current car which is around 6 groups higher! Interesting they said that one of the standards benefits was a 'new for old' policy while the car was less than 1 year old...making me wonder why the dealer tried to sell me GAP insurance???

 

I believe the GAP insurance is valid throughout the term of your HP/loan agreement, not just the first 12 months.

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Thanks everyone for your help and support

 

I was at the dealers at opening time this morning armed with the knowledge gained here and 'expressed my disatisfaction' to someone senior. Turns out the registration hadnt been completed after all, despite being told yesterday that it had and couldnt be changed.

 

Car now being delivered 1st September on a 60 plate :D

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Thanks everyone for your help and support

 

I was at the dealers at opening time this morning armed with the knowledge gained here and 'expressed my disatisfaction' to someone senior. Turns out the registration hadnt been completed after all, despite being told yesterday that it had and couldnt be changed.

 

Car now being delivered 1st September on a 60 plate :D

 

Now there's a surprise!

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

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Sorry uppleby, that's not correct. It's from the date of delivery to the customer. AWS which dealers won't have access to, records this based on a feed from AFRL.

 

From a legal perspective, it has to as well.

 

Were is this info from?? anything I have read says from date of registration.

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For example, a car registered on 31st June (usually to hit sales targets) but not taken delivery of until the 20th July, then the warranty starts 20th July. Well known fact and is documented in all Manufacturers Dealer Warranty Manuals.

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For example, a car registered on 31st June (usually to hit sales targets) but not taken delivery of until the 20th July, then the warranty starts 20th July. Well known fact and is documented in all Manufacturers Dealer Warranty Manuals.

 

Although I can see what you are saying here, the fact is that when a new car is first registered, the V5 will carry the name of the first purchaser and it is unlikely they would not take delivery on the date of first registration. In the scenario you describe Helio, suggests that the dealer registers the car themselves as a demo or something in which case the dealer becomes the first RK, and then sells the car on a month later. The car by then is obviously 'used' but is still subject to the rest of the manufacturers warranty. I think what BK is trying to say is that the warranty kicks in on the day the car is taxed as it can be used from that day.

 

Another way of looking at this is if a purchaser buys the car new and the car is registered and taxed accordingly and then for some reason the purchaser dosn't take delivery for a couple of weeks, then from the date the car is taxed is the date the warranty begins. Obviously, this example is highly unlikely to happen in the real world.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

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Herewith is extract from such a manual.

 

What is the warranty period?

The Vehicle Warranty starts on the day the vehicle is delivered to the first retail

customer. The warranty period applicable to each market is detailed in Attachment 1.

Note: The warranty period for dealer demonstrator vehicles or company cars starts on

the day the vehicle is put in service (not the day the vehicle is first sold retail).

 

Hope that clears it up.;)

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Heliosuk, see posts in Citroen Picasso Owners Club website on when warranty begins. There is a lot of conflict in ideas as to when warranty begins. I bought a pre reg car, and had to get written confirmation from dealer that warranty commenced on date of registration. I was first retail owner, and lost three months warranty.

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