Land Purchasing

[ColinJWatson]

Hi Guys,

 

Couldn't find the right section, or best section to put this.

 

I have a wee question. I live in Scotland, and there is a piece of land at the side of my house owned by the council. I am currently looking into buying this land, but its already taken a few years, and I still don't even have a price.

 

Anyway, the land is fenced, and it has loads of bushes, tree's etc inside it. I have been calling the council asking them to cut it for ages now, and they have still not done it, they have even suggested that its 1 of the local places that own the land and not them. When I tell them that its the council selling me the land, they play dumb. Anyway, I have now been cutting this back for quite a while, but now its turning into a skip, and people are dumping there crap in it. And its really p1ssing me off.

 

I heard from someone that if you maintain land for long enough attached to your property, then you can actually claim it as your own? Is this actually true? If not, then I don't want to waste any more time doing it, and will make sure I press them to get it cleaned on a regular basis. Its becoming an eyesore, but I sort of left it to to the above.

 

Though this may be the best place to find out.

 

Regards

 

Colin

[IdaInFife]

Hi Colin,

 

I don't have a clue but let's see if we can find out

[buzby]

What you are talking about is 'adverse posession' but it is a long winded affair as it takes (I believe) 10 years and you have to enclose it within your own boundary and await complaints. (If any).

 

By far the best way is to what many others do, and put in a Planning Application. Specify the ground, its location and your wish to enclose it within your own property. If a strip, and there's no objection - once permission is granted - your purpose will be to bring it within your curtilage, enclose and maintain the X sq m of common ground as part of your garden. Pay the fee, and if you hear no more - do it.

Edited July 29, 2010 by buzby

[IdaInFife]

Thank you Raymond

[buzby]

Anytime. I've got my eye on a strip of land at McIntosh Road, Kirkton Campus.....

[IdaInFife]

You can have it....Carnegie campus in Dunfermline is worth more

[buzby]

Doesn't Gordie B still live in the county? Wouldn't that depress preices even further?

[stivis]

I heard from someone that if you maintain land for long enough attached to your property, then you can actually claim it as your own? Is this actually true?

No it not true, what it has been confused with is the right of way over the land,which was the old rules, however the right of way/ access was dealt with in an act circa 2001, I sure you remember Anne Gloag (Stagecoach) fighting it big style

 

If you want to know ownership, Land Registery Edinburgh(main office) or Glasgow (George Square)

 

better if you go in ,they are extremely helpful, and will produce copies of the title, from around £2.00.......

I've went back to 1820, on one and 1838 in another

 

 

What you are talking about is 'adverse posession' but it is a long winded affair as it takes (I believe) 10 years and you have to enclose it within your own boundary and await complaints. (If any).

Disagree , I believe you would not have the right of title to the land.......I had a walled in strip for 30 year and had no title no had I any right to the land

By far the best way is to what many others do, and put in a Planning Application. Specify the ground, its location and your wish to enclose it within your own property. If a strip, and there's no objection - once permission is granted - your purpose will be to bring it within your curtilage, enclose and maintain the X sq m of common ground as part of your garden. Pay the fee, and if you hear no more - do it.

Again I disagree.Planning applications have no relationship to ownership..ie a developer submits an application, he doesn't necessarily own the the land , and remember the drawing and application require you to state ownership of the site and notifiable neighbours......See C1 section in the attachment, all e.planning form are very similar irrespective of council

PlanningApplicationForm.pdf

[buzby]

We're talking about common ground - not an area that is legitimately that of another landowner. Adverse posession is used often under these circumstances.

 

As for the Planning wrinkle I outlined, I can confirm that this does not address the issue of ownership - but does much to protect the applicant as they have made no secret of their intentions, and as far as my last council trawll found, has a 90% success rate.

 

Neighbour notification remains a requirement regardless - so I don;t see your point here.

[stivis]

We're talking about common ground

Don't think that has been properly established,has it?

Neighbour notification remains a requirement regardless - so I don;t see your point here.

Point is the empty land ,require a signature,to be submitted to the council

read C1 and note 17....councils are now requiring a signature of the land owner,to the vacant land,most councils are doing it themselves,mainly due to abuse of the system prior to 2005(ie the applicant submits the form ,stating neighbours notified,but didn't bother to do so

 

to go back to OP

 

 

they have even suggested that its 1 of the local places that own the land and not them

the council are being a bit cagey,the councils do have access to regestered owners,via link now,nowtheless it's therefore not common ground

When I tell them that its the council selling me the land, they play dumb.

Quite frankly they won't do anything as purchase would be done via Legal and Protective Service Dept,or what Dept deals with in in your council,and councils won't spend any money on it if it's getting sold, they'll waste money elsewhere,a Good councillor's buffet I suspect,(I digress.......lol)

Anyway, I have now been cutting this back for quite a while, but now its turning into a skip, and people are dumping there crap in it.

Two things here the council are of course happy you're doing the work

Secondly the tipping.....that would be Fly-tipping an offence, ...see council Environment or Waste Dept and voice your concern

[ColinJWatson]

Thanks for the informatin guys, I will look into George Square, and also see about putting in this application. I really think I need to find out more about it.

[buzby]

Just spokewn with a a distant neighbour who was in a siumilar situation. Hew took the Planning Appllcation approach to enclose an extra strip of land to meet the edge of a pre-existing pathway running across common ground (amenety use). His application was granted, and he enclosed the land by extending his boundary. This was in 2004, and apart from one objection (by a neighbour) the Council Planning agreed to it, and he heard no more.

[stivis]

Planning has no relevance,honest believe me

 

The main problem lies in the fact that you would have no title to the land nor any right of title,ownership must be certain

However If you had an agreement within the Land Title (in England these are covenants)slightly different in Scotland but for the sake of debate regard as the same,similar to a right of way over the land(common in the case of shared driveways etc).....This would ascertain what you could or couldn't do

 

to illustrate the problem

 

You build a house over a section of land that you don't own,

 

 

The owner comes along after say 10 years ,What happens?

 

He tells you to move off the land

or

Charges you rent for the 10 years then tells you to move of the land

 

Get the title or ownership sorted first,

 

Of course If you're sure the council are not a load of overpaid numpties,take their word for it.

[buzby]

Whether I believe you on not is irrelevant. Having now checked my local Planning website had discovered 11 such applications for these 'strips' is the last 5 years alone. Adverse posession does exist, and can be expensive when challenged. On common land, there is a different issue, as the largest landowner in any area is invariably the Council.

 

By lodging a plannig application simply to enclose the land and nothing more, provides a fully traceable means and in an offhand way, gives the council notice of the intention of the neighbour. If they did not raise any issues at this point, makes it very difficult to claim they object or had no notice of the intention of the applicant.

 

The situation you outline is hardly relevant for the reasons outlined earlier. As for the council being 'numpties' their actions make them legally accountable regardless. I've no axe to grind either way, however as the council are accepting money for such applications assuming that it reflects use of their land, it appears to be a recognised and dare I say an approved method of proceeding to regularise an otherwise unsatisfacory situation.

[stivis]

Disagree,

A couple of quid to land registry ,that's the way I'd

[stivis]

Go

should have been there

 

Adverse posession does exist,

 

Check the current rules with the Land Registry, you need to seek permission to apply for the title to the land,at present the odds are not great

[buzby]

Disagree away. I've you've spent any more than an hour in George Square bemused by the chaotic state of indexing and an inability to find what you want - especially if it doesn;t have a posatcode or defined postal address, your confidence (and money) will be depleted considerably.

[stivis]

Never had a problem there,but I had the OS references as well.

 

Still, It's the OP choice which route to try

 

Best of luck

[ColinJWatson]

Just spokewn with a a distant neighbour who was in a siumilar situation. Hew took the Planning Appllcation approach to enclose an extra strip of land to meet the edge of a pre-existing pathway running across common ground (amenety use). His application was granted, and he enclosed the land by extending his boundary. This was in 2004, and apart from one objection (by a neighbour) the Council Planning agreed to it, and he heard no more.

 

Hi Buzby, this is probably a strip of land attached to the side of my house, thats probably the same area as my front and back Gardens, including the house in the middle.

 

All, I would be looking to do would be extend the Garden, until I can purchase it to then then maybe sell the house with planning permission, or even build on it myself at a later date

 

Regards

 

Colin

[ColinJWatson]

Does it help that I was flooded a few years ago because the council built a fence over the drain, and they have since moved this fence, and it no longer floods? I have pictures of this also

[buzby]

Not sure how, to be honest. As a temporary fence and whether or not it casued flooding seems a bit off-the-wall. What was your line of thinking?

[stivis]

sell the house with planning permission, or even build on it myself at a later date

 

If you try to pursue this you may find a problem,the land could be on a flood plain ,irrespective of who caused the flooding...

value wise without PP it makes no difference.

 

Sepa (hydrology dept)in EK will advise fully on whether or not it's a flood plain or in the vicinity(although you can check on their web site if it is)of one

[buzby]

The map is HERE: http://go.mappoint.net/sepa/ Just enter your postcode.

[ColinJWatson]

Hi,

 

I checked, and the land is not a flood plain. Basically the council had a fence blocking the drains, we got flooded, and after we complained they have moved the fence, and also put in an extra drain. No flooding since then. I just want to use this to try and push forward my case of getting the land from them, with them not cutting the trees, but also from the fact that they blocked the drains initially. And even maybe get it cheaper. Chased them 4 times since my last reply and still heard nothing back

 

Kind Regards

 

Colin

[ColinJWatson]

Hi,

 

I have now been told that they have postcarded my neighbour about us buying this land. I assume this is to see if there are any objections. I am still hoping that they give me some sort of discount due to the flooding we got and the fact that they are not maintaining it, but I don't imagine that they will!