Motorcycle left by owner in garage for 17 years - can it be sold?

[Ageinggroover]

I'm thinking about buying a motorcycle that has been left in someone's private garage for 17 years. They repeatedly attempted to contact the owner to have the vehicle removed but with no response - now they want to get rid of it. Police and DVLA are uninterested and since the vehicle is still registered the DVLA will issue a V5 to the new keeper.

 

However, I'm aware that this isn't the same as ownership and want to know at what point a vehicle can be claimed after it has been effectively abandoned.

[danielr]

To be blunt. I don't know the actual legalities.

 

Normally I'd say to anyone that they should be careful buying a vehicle when the 'owner' doesn't have a v5. Even though they may have just lost it.

 

Realistically how good dontou think your chances of keeping the vehicle is if the owner (ho does have the v5) goes to the police saying it's stolen.

 

Let the guy who owns the garage sort it out. He needs to contact the owner and get the vehicle removed or given to him as a storage charge for having kept the bike for the past 17years. When the bike is his he'll be the legal owner, and he'll have the v5. Then he can do what he likes with it. At the moment it's not his and he can't sell it.

[HF whO?]

How much is the bike worth and how much will you be paying for it?

 

What condition is the bike in?

 

17 years is a very long time and I would be inclined to think that perhaps something may have happened to the original owner?

 

If the bike was stored at a fee and payment was outstanding then it may be a different to if the bike was just being stored out of good will???

 

Sorry I cannot be of much help but I would certainly be interested to hear the answer to this.

[patdavies]

Some confusion going on here.

 

Having a V5 (or not) has absolutely nothing to do with ownership.

[danielr]

Sorry Pat, no confusion here. Hence why I put 'owner' -(with the v5) inside inverted commas.

 

It really makes no diffence here though. The guys why owns the garage is neither owner nor registered keeper. And as he's not the owner he can't transfer ownership, as he's not the registered keeper he can't transfer the v5.

 

Whether it's backed up with links to previous legal cases or not my advice would still remain the same. Let the garage owner (the guy who has been storing the bike). Sort it out with the owner of the bike. If the owner really doesn't want or has nowhere to put the bike, and just hands it over to the garage owner. (so the garage owner becomes the legal owner and the registered keeper). Then buy the bike.

 

Or possibly ask the garage owner who the owner/keeper is and approach them asking if they want to sell.

[skippy_the_buroo_kangaroo]

I think there are form(s) you get from Dvla to claim ownership of abandoned Vehicles, but you would have to make an effort to try and contact the owner to see if they have actually abandond it. If there are no persons claiming the ownership of it, well claim it legally through Dvla.

[patdavies]

I think there are form(s) you get from Dvla to claim ownership of abandoned Vehicles, but you would have to make an effort to try and contact the owner to see if they have actually abandond it. If there are no persons claiming the ownership of it, well claim it legally through Dvla.

 

DVLA have nothing to do with ownership and are thus not in a position to pass the ownership of any vehicle to another person.

[car nut]

this is what happens if you buy the bike the dvla write to the last regested owner if they dont reply they issue the v5 in your name you win,if he does reply and says the bike is his you lose.

[patdavies]

this is what happens if you buy the bike the dvla write to the last regested owner if they dont reply they issue the v5 in your name you win,if he does reply and says the bike is his you lose.

 

Please explain exactly what is a registered owner?

 

The DVLA only deal with the matter of registered keeper. What you have said is absolutely correct for the RK, but does not and cannot change ownership.

 

Being RK without having ownership can considerably affect insurance.

[car nut]

Please explain exactly what is a registered owner?

 

okay the last registed owner eg the last name on the v5

[patdavies]

Please explain exactly what is a registered owner?

 

okay the last registed owner eg the last name on the v5

 

Name on the V5 is the registered keeper - nothing whatsoever to do with ownership.

[car nut]

 

Name on the V5 is the registered keeper - nothing whatsoever to do with ownership.

 

true

but this is all the info the dvla has

if they dont reply you get a v5 in your name

[i know ive done this]

the only other thing you can do is a hpi check.

[danielr]

you're missing the point.

 

the v5 does not tell you anything about who actually owns the car.

 

The only thing that can tell you anything about the ownership of a car would be a receipt of sale.

 

v5's list registered keeper, as in who is in charge of the car at that time, that way the DVLA know who is registered as keeping the car and presumably driving the car. they know who is responsible for taxing the car, and should you get caught speeding, or fail to pay a parking ticket (issued by a real council), then they know who they should contact.

 

registered keeper and owner, in most situations, is the same person.

but the two things are not the same.

 

having a V5 listing you as a registered keeper will not magically make a vehicle yours, it's still got a real owner, -the guy who originally paid for it.

 

and that real owner could return to that garage, and then could report that bike as stolen, (which it effectively would be). and you'd loose any right to the vehicle.

 

the garage owner doesn't own the bike.

 

you can't sell what you don't own.

 

the garage owner can't transfer ownership because it's not his right to transfer it.

 

You could get yourself listed as the registered keeper, but that still doesn't make you the owner.

 

if the garage owner claims ownership of the bike and goes on to sell it, then he'd be effectively stealing it from the real owner.

[car nut]

you're missing the point.

 

the v5 does not tell you anything about who actually owns the car.

 

The only thing that can tell you anything about the ownership of a car would be a receipt of sale.

 

v5's list registered keeper, as in who is in charge of the car at that time, that way the DVLA know who is registered as keeping the car and presumably driving the car. they know who is responsible for taxing the car, and should you get caught speeding, or fail to pay a parking ticket (issued by a real council), then they know who they should contact.

 

registered keeper and owner, in most situations, is the same person.

but the two things are not the same.

 

having a V5 listing you as a registered keeper will not magically make a vehicle yours, it's still got a real owner, -the guy who originally paid for it.

 

and that real owner could return to that garage, and then could report that bike as stolen, (which it effectively would be). and you'd loose any right to the vehicle.

 

the garage owner doesn't own the bike.

 

you can't sell what you don't own.

 

the garage owner can't transfer ownership because it's not his right to transfer it.

 

You could get yourself listed as the registered keeper, but that still doesn't make you the owner.

 

if the garage owner claims ownership of the bike and goes on to sell it, then he'd be effectively stealing it from the real owner.

 

everythng you say is true

all i can speak is from experence

[Tony P]

The process of getting oneself registered as the Keeper and being issued with a V5 is in earlier posts above.

 

If one is then concerned about the OWNER seeking to claim the vehicle from a new KEEPER, would it not be an idea for a 'new' Keeper to get the registration number changed?

 

That way there is no likelyhood of the Owner seeing it and being reminded it is his - and he would hardly recognise the specific machine as his, not having seen it for 17 years.

At worst, he might say "I've got/had one of those (somewhere). Good aren't they!"

[danielr]

so you're condoning taking a bike that's not yours claiming to be the owner and then changing the plates so that on the outside it appears to be a different bike?

 

 

in any case, this won't matter, cars have VIN numbers, bikes have frame numbers, when the owner reports bike abc 123z missing it won't take long for it to be flagged that that particular bike is actually taxed and in use on the roads. and that somebody has changed the plates.

 

it's a really, really easy process.

 

The garage owner know who owns the bike, they can go to their house, they could phone them, they could do any number of things.

 

you know the number plate of the bike, talk to the DVLA and find out who owns the bike, and where they live now.

 

 

really, if the garage owner is finding that the bike is in their way then they need to find the proper way to get rid of it... not just steal it from the owner and then try to sell it on as if it's their own.

 

after 17 years, the bike owner might say, that they'd forgotten about that bike and the guy can keep it, or they might say that they do remember about the bike.

 

on here we know nothing about the bike, or its value, or perhaps future value, it might be that it's been put into storage because it has significant value, was perhaps part of a limited production run, it might be that it's significantly special, in some other way, the first, or last or a certain bike model. there are any number of reasons a person might want to store a vehicle rather than drive it into the ground.

[JonCris]

To ensure legal ownership place an ad in the press stating that unless the owner claims it & pays storage within say 3 months the M/C will be sold Be careful though as you will almost certainly have chancers trying to claim it as theirs

[Tony P]

it's a really, really easy process.

 

The garage owner know who owns the bike, they can go to their house, they could phone them, they could do any number of things.

 

you know the number plate of the bike, talk to the DVLA and find out who owns the bike, and where they live now.

 

Sounds great. But I think you missed this bit in the original question -

 

"They repeatedly attempted to contact the owner to have the vehicle removed but with no response - now they want to get rid of it. Police and DVLA are uninterested "

 

Without knowing more, it appears on the face of this that the owner has moved on, having apparently forgotten or abandoned the bike.

[JonCris]

To ensure legal ownership place an ad in the press stating that unless the owner claims it & pays storage within say 3 months the M/C will be sold Be careful though as you will almost certainly have chancers trying to claim it as theirs

 

I repeat

[JonCris]

I forgot to mention its important that the cost of storage is included in the ad. Be advised that if the sale price exceeds it then the balance can be claimed by the previous owner

[danielr]

Sounds great. But I think you missed this bit in the original question -

 

"They repeatedly attempted to contact the owner to have the vehicle removed but with no response - now they want to get rid of it. Police and DVLA are uninterested "

 

Without knowing more, it appears on the face of this that the owner has moved on, having apparently forgotten or abandoned the bike.

the question is how they've attempted to contact the owner,

 

I mean have the sent a letter? tried calling at the house? gone to the DVLA and asked for the address of the registered keeper?

 

 

it's not impossible to claim ownership, I mean the police do it all the time for abandoned vehicles and then sell them at auction...

 

 

JonChris has a good suggestion, when it comes down to it, IF (and it is a big if) the owner sees you on their bike and decides to go to the police claiming it's theirs and thus must be stolen, you're going to want to be able to know that you (or at least the garage owner) took all reasonable steps to contact the owner, and show the court that the vehicle was genuinely abandoned. (and don't forget that you might be having to prove that those steps were taken as well).