Changed status of car park

[Belaflat]

I have a vehicle which I sorned at the beginning of this month. It is parked on a car park on a dock estate. The entrance to the estate states it is private land and there are barriers manned by security at the entrance.

Cut to the chase, I have just had a phone call telling me that ABP have allowed the DVLA jurisdiction on the estate and they have started towing away untaxed vehicles. Mine is still there but apparantly will be removed tomorrow.

This has got me worried as I believed that a private car park was not a public road and certainly not on an estate which is marked as private and secure. although the vehicle is in effect a scrapper, I left it there until I had time to remove some items before disposing of it. This car park is the one used by a dock pub which i frequent and a lot of us have had no problems over the years with similar activities.

What is likely to be my position, will they attempt a fine...how can a car park become a public road without any visible warning.

Its not the thought of losing my old vehicle thats annoying but the prospect of legal action when I have done what i thought was legal all along.

[Belaflat]

What...nobody any ideas...?

 

As a further update, I have had the vehicle towed to a definite off road storage area but after checking online, the DVLA have it down as unlicensed.

 

I am assuming they will now hit me with a penelty for back tax which I intend to challenge on the issues raised in my first post...anyone have any thoughts on this.

 

I should add, they accepted the SORN originally and I have the letter to show this.

[Raykay]

DVLA contractors can remove vehicles from there that are not licensed or have a current SORN declaration and I would think that they are the ones that they are removing. As it is not a public road, your SORN declaration will be valid.

 

If your SORN declaration started on expiry of the last licence, you have no tax liability.

[Belaflat]

RayKay..they have removed a vehicle that I know was Sorned, I know the owner. He has had a letter telling him where it is impounded.

Apparently, the only reason they didnt take mine was it was too big for the truck they had at the time.

I declared sorn correctly, believing the car park was private for the reasons stated. DVLA have apparently cancelled this status as it looks like they are alleging use on a public road..ie...the car park.

[Raykay]

DVLA cannot change the 'status' of the car park, it is in the Vehicles Excise & Registration Act 1994 that a registered vehicle must be licensed, but if it is not kept on a public road - a road maintained at public expense (a road, not a car park) - a SORN declaration may be made instead of a licence.

 

As it is not on a public road, what the contractors should do is check the status of each vehicle with DVLA before dealing with it. Sounds like they are not checking and just taking everything.

[sailor sam]

If the car park has barriers then it is not accesable as a public right of way so your car cannot be removed by the DVLA as long as it is SORNd.

 

As Rakay says, the DVLA cannot change the status of a car park. For SORN not to be valid, your car would have to be parked on a public road.

 

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[Belaflat]

Thanks RayKay and Sailor Sam. To Clarify, the car park is fenced off from the road but not gated, however, the Dock Estate is, as a new road layout was introduced last year and all entrances closed except one which now has a security gate and barrier in and out.

I am waiting to see what the DVLA come back with but I was told that ABP, associated british ports gave the DVLA powere to treat the roads as public although I understand this was before the new gated layout.

I have found all this out since the incident so as far as I was concerned, I made a genuine SORN but I still fail to see how a car park on a gated estate can be deemed a public road.

I am going to need some good legally inclined minds soon methinks as I intend to dispute it if they try it on. just worried about the costs.

[sailor sam]

Have you permission to park there from APB to park there? Not that it makes much difference as far as the DVLA are concerned.

 

the bottom line is that they cannot do anything providing your car is SORNd and it is not parked on a public road. Have you checked the vehicle status with the DVLA?

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Raykay]

I was told that ABP, associated british ports gave the DVLA powere to treat the roads as public although I understand this was before the new gated layout.

 

ABP cannot give power to DVLA to treat their roads as public roads, either they are public roads within the meaning of VERA 1994 or they are not, gates and barriers have nothing to do with it. The criteria for a public road is that it is a road maintained at public expense, if that is not the case then SORN instead of a licence is valid and DVLA contractors have no authority to remove vehicles that are correctly SORN.

 

I wonder if ABP are just using that as an excuse because they want the vehicles removed.

[sailor sam]

ABP cannot give power to DVLA to treat their roads as public roads, either they are public roads within the meaning of VERA 1994 or they are not, gates and barriers have nothing to do with it. The criteria for a public road is that it is a road maintained at public expense, if that is not the case then SORN instead of a licence is valid and DVLA contractors have no authority to remove vehicles that are correctly SORN.

 

I wonder if ABP are just using that as an excuse because they want the vehicles removed.

 

This is what i'm thinking.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Belaflat]

Sailor Sam, I have received the confirmation letter from the DVLA accepting the SORN but when I checked on thier website, the status is now unlicenced.

 

Ray Kay and Sailor Sam, I am told that ABP did want the vehicles removed after going around and seeing some that had been there a very long time.

Mine had been there for 4 weeks.

[Raykay]

It will show as unlicensed, as all registered vehicles now have to be licenced, the offence would be that of being the registered keeper of an unlicensed vehicle - s.31A VERA 1994, however s.31B gives conditions under which the registered keeper does not commit an offence under s.31A, one of which is if there is a current SORN declaration in respect of the vehicle. So although it is unlicensed, you do not commit an offence - don't lose the SORN letter!!!

[sailor sam]

Sailor Sam, I have received the confirmation letter from the DVLA accepting the SORN but when I checked on thier website, the status is now unlicenced.

 

Ray Kay and Sailor Sam, I am told that ABP did want the vehicles removed after going around and seeing some that had been there a very long time.

Mine had been there for 4 weeks.

 

SORN lasts up to 1 year then it has to be re-newd unless the car is taxed. Providing the SORN hasn't lapsed and is current, then you have nothing to worry about. As Rakay says, keep the letter!

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.