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    • what rights of access do you have on your agreement with the landlord?   i suspect you shouldn't have to pay a thing.
    • then there is your proof to them why would you pay for BB twice!!   for my notes: GENERAL NOTES ON CHARGEBACK & Continuous Payment Authority & BACS   .....  We have been telling people to put a letter into their bank instructing them  not to make any payments under any circumstances to these companies  . http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/- it works! usually this should be done using the number on your debit card  .  banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers ! . CANCELLING YOUR DEBIT CARD DOES NOT STOP CPA'S  .  This fsa guide has now been updated:  . http://www.fsa.gov.uk/static/pubs/consumer_info/know_your_rights_guide.pdf http://www.fca.org.uk/news/continuous-payment-authorities-your-right-to-cancel https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/unauthorised-payments-account  .  Here's the text:  .  Cancelling a regular  card payment:  .  When you give your credit or debit card details to a company and authorise them to take regular payments from your account,   such as for a gym membership or magazine subscription,  it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’ or ‘continuous payment authority’.  . These are often confused with direct debits, but do not offer the same guarantee if the amount or date of the payment changes.  .  In most cases, regular payments can be cancelled by telling the company taking the payments.   .  However,   you have the right to cancel them directly with your bank or card issuer by telling it that you have stopped permission for the payments.   Your bank or card issuer must then stop them – it has no right to insist that you agree this first with the company taking the payments.  .  Be aware, though, that you will still be responsible for paying any money that you owe. and that CANCELLING YOUR CARD WILL NOT STOP THE CPA  .  ..  .  New june 2013  .  Regulator orders Banks and mutuals to review complaints about not cancelling recurring payments from November 2009.  .  Consumers who have set up a regular payment from their account will now be able to successfully cancel that arrangement   by contacting their card provider, the Financial Conduct Authority said.  .  The FCA has been examining how easy it is for customers to cancel Continuous Payment Authorities (CPAs)   due either to payday lendersicon or for other regular payments such as subscriptions or gymicon memberships.  .  CPAs, which are also commonly called recurring transactions or recurring payments,   are relatively easy to set up but can be hard to cancel, causing problems for consumers trying to manage their finances,the FCA said.  .  Now, following the FCA review of how the largest high street banks and mutuals process requests to cancel CPAs, they have agreed that they will ensure that when   a customer asks for a recurring payment to end, that will be sufficient to cancel the arrangement. They have also confirmed that should a payment go through by   mistake following cancellation by a customer the customer will be refunded immediately.  .  In addition to securing this commitment, the largest banks and mutuals have agreed to review every individual complaint they have received about the non-  cancellation of a CPA and to pay redress where payments have continued to be made despite the customer cancelling the arrangement. This applies to all complaints   since November 2009 when the Financial Services Authority, the FCA’s predecessor, began regulating banking conduct.  .  Clive Adamson, the FCA’s director of supervision, said: “It’s important that consumers are confident that banks are meeting their everyday banking needs. Today   customers can be confident that when they ask for a Continuous Payment Authority to be cancelled – it will be cancelled - and that it can be done easily.   . “We recognise that historically this is an area where some customers have struggled but the banks and mutuals have responded positively to our work on this issue.   From now on we expect them to be getting this right. In addition, they have committed to review past complaints.” .  .  Also mentioned your displeasure that as whomever took your money had obviously attempted this many times   probably activating your banks own anti fraud software - nobody had the decency to inform my you this was going on.? .  .In the FSA's own words:  .  ..  What should I do about a payment from my account that I didn’t authorise?  .  Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction.   Money can only be taken from your account if you have authorised the transaction   or if your bank can prove you were at fault –  . see below.  Contact your bank immediately if you notice an unauthorised payment from your account. .  If you are sure you did not authorise the payment, you can claim a refund.  .  However, your bank does not have to refund you if you do not tell it about the payment until 13 months  or more after the date it left your account.  .  Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction  .  ------------------  .  Your bank may only refuse a refund for an unauthorised transaction if:  .  ? it can prove you authorised the transaction  – though your bank cannot simply say that use of your password,   card and PIN proves you authorised a payment; or .  ? it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently,   or because you deliberately,   or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction  .  -----------------------  .  How quickly must my bank refund me for an unauthorised transaction?  .  The bank must make the refund immediately unless it has evidence that one of the above reasons applies.   Your bank may ask you to answer some questions and fill out a form confirming what has happened,   but it cannot delay your refund while it waits for you to return the form.  If the bank has evidence that one of the above reasons for refusing a refund applies,   it may investigate before making a refund   but must look into it as quickly as possible.   If your bank rejects your claim for a refund it should explain why.  If the transaction was on a credit card, the refund may not happen immediately.   But the card issuer cannot charge interest or ask for repayment of the amount unless it can prove you are liable to pay        
    • Only asking because I want to get my facts right before I approach the bank! Yes, BT is coming out of the same account.
    • not if they want to make the OP the named claimant no!! let them take the other party to court themselves!! the op can be a witness then..   one bitten...read this thread..      
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      • 16 replies
franz2417

Bank started the chase over an Over Draft

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Hi folks,

 

This is my first post. I have done a lot of reading and I am still really confused as to where I stand.

 

Long story short:

 

In 2007 my business partners and I were in the midst of acquiring a company. Our bankers at that time would not extend any further business credit under PGs or any terms (more on that later!). They wheeled in a personal banking partner though who said they would look at three personal loans of £40K to allow us to raise the total of £120K to acquire the business.

 

As it transpired, the bank opened three personal accounts with an overdraft limit of £40K on each account.

 

Things are a bit sketchy at this point as I was taken seriously ill and hospitalised for a period. My record keeping is frankly appalling and I regret this severely now.

 

I cannot remember signing any loan agreement, although I do have a vague recollection of signing to open the account.

 

Longer story short!

 

The original company we acquired using the 3 x £40K o/d was forced into administration by said bank in June last year.

 

They are currently starting the process to get back money owed under business PG's (I will need to open a different thread on this one) and have sent polite (I mean it) letter asking for my plans on how I will repay the £40K.

 

Up until now the old business and the new business have been servicing the interest on the £40K overdraft for two of the directors. I have no idea what has been happening for the third director as he left the business under a cloud before the administration.

 

We (my fellow director and I) have been keeping in contact with the bank regarding this, however I know this pleasant dialogue won't go on for ever and eventually they will set the dogs loose.

 

We have asked to see signed copies of paperwork (again informally) but they have "parried" us off, and not produced anything.

 

I guess my question is where do we stand with regard to this debt. The business can barely afford to support the interest let alone a repayment of the full amount, and personally, there is no way I can see that I will be able to service the debt personally, however I do acknowledge that the bank did hand over an overdraft.

 

I am not sure where to begin? Do I let it go legal? Do I ask them to convert it to a loan? Would they accept a final offer? I am lost!

 

I would forward to some free and frank comments on this.

 

Many thanks

 

Joe

 

I should say that I am in Scotland.

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Bumping. Does anyone have any advice on this? Please?

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Franz, is this a limited company? Have you seen any paperwork for the personal guarantees? This is a tricky situation isen't it? Depends whether you think the company could service the loan and going that way, if things go wrong and they will almost certainly tie you into all sorts of guarantees to make the loan secure against any property you and your fellow director have privately, then what happens if you fail to keep up the payments? On the other hand if you decide to go up against them now, the first thing to do is a subject access request, £10 postal order and neither of you sign recorded delivery and see what they come up with, it does seem odd that they are not coming up with any paperwork at present.

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Hi There. Thanks for getting back to me.

It's a bit complicated.

 

We acquired two companies in 2006/2007. There were PGs in relation to the first acquisition to cover lending and overdraft.

 

The second company was acquired using three personal overdrafts of £40K.

 

Would raising a SAR now start the alarm bells ringing at their side. Presently they are not taking an aggressive stance. My worry is that if we raise a SAR they will see this as us being defensive, and then start to pursue us aggressively.

 

Also, why shouldn't we sign recorded delivery?

 

Many thanks for your advice.

 

Joe

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I cannot remember signing any loan agreement, although I do have a vague recollection of signing to open the account.

 

Thats why - its possible they have plenty of your signatures already but at least not signing removes the temptation for a bit of blue peter work on the Bank's behalf.

 

Yes sending the SAR would raise their hackles but are you confident of the company's ability to service any new agreement?

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In short, I'm not sure the company would be able to service the debt going forward. And personally I know I can't service a £40K loan. I just don't know what to do. At the moment the bank are asking for "my suggestions" on how I will repay my obligations. I am at a loss how to answer this question.

 

Thanks

 

Joe

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Its a dilemma Franz but what you have to remember is that this is not a moral question but a legal one, posting a link which shows just what Banks can be capable of:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/241742-hushpuppy-round-1-hushpuppy-13.html

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Hi Miss Muppet,

 

Many thanks on sticking with me on this one. I have had a good read of the Hushpuppy thread and it would appear that the banks can indeed flex their muscles, however it does look like Hushpuppy may win this one!

 

My current dilemma is that I don't know how to respond to the banks request for suggestions on how I will repay. Clearly I can't ask them to convert the full amount to a loan over XX years as I simply can't afford repayments of any more that £100 per month (for example)

 

Would I go back and say that I could offer to repay at £100 per month, or offer a full and final settlement of a percentage of the amount owed? (I have a mortgage renewal coming up)

 

And if I take that approach, what would position would the bank likely take?

 

Sorry for the scattergun approach with the questions, but I can feel the panic rising!

 

Joe

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Hi Miss Muppet,

 

Many thanks on sticking with me on this one. I have had a good read of the Hushpuppy thread and it would appear that the banks can indeed flex their muscles, however it does look like Hushpuppy may win this one!

 

My current dilemma is that I don't know how to respond to the banks request for suggestions on how I will repay. Clearly I can't ask them to convert the full amount to a loan over XX years as I simply can't afford repayments of any more that £100 per month (for example)

 

Would I go back and say that I could offer to repay at £100 per month, or offer a full and final settlement of a percentage of the amount owed? (I have a mortgage renewal coming up)

 

And if I take that approach, what would position would the bank likely take?

 

Sorry for the scattergun approach with the questions, but I can feel the panic rising!

 

Joe

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I think you are being remarkably level headed. The trouble is I think the advice most people would give you and is certainly what most people do with credit cards is to CCA them to see if they actually have any form of written and signed agreement but as you know overdrafts are a little more tricky. Also, you have said you are frightened of raising their hackles if you send them an SAR but usually peeps find that if they (the bank) haven't got the paperwork in order it tends to make them more reasonable regarding full and final offers or repayment plans. £100 a month sounds a very good offer but are you going to be stuffed if they still add interest which they could well do. I had this with one of my CC's and was paying the same amount as you have quoted, they let this run for 6 months and then said I had to send in an Income/Expenditure and had started adding interest. CCA'd them, no agreement, stopped paying and heard not a peep since.

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