No Refund from Tigrent Learning UK Ltd

[sucker999]

Hi There,

 

Please can somebody help me?

 

I attended a 3 day basic property investment course with Tigrent Learning UK Ltd and at the end of it signed up for an advanced course at an astronomical cost. I paid with credit cards and a cheque. Overnight I agonised at the amount of money I was paying out and decided that it was just too much so I phoned the next day and cancelled in terms of the 7 day cooling off period in the agreement. I also sent a letter Special Delivery which Royal Mail has confirmed was delivered & signed for the next day.

 

When I spoke to the Admin Manager I was told that I would get a refund within 30 days but I would need to sign a letter which would be sent to me in the next couple of days. I also received an e-mail confirming that they had voided my cheque (thank goodness!) and would be sending me a letter to sign.

 

Despite a couple of telephone calls, an e-mail and another letter sent Special Delivery advising them that I had not received the letter I had to sign, all sent within the 30 days, I have not yet received the letter or my refund!

 

On the expiry of the 30 days I sent another letter Special Delivery insisting on my refund within 7 days and this grace period is about to expire.

 

I have informed the two credit card companies that the amounts are in dispute and I am waiting for the forms they need me to complete to come in the post. I am now being charged interest by the credit card companies.

 

Without going to a solicitor and incurring additional cost, what else can I do to enforce the refund I am entitled to?

 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[BankFodder]

Is the CC payment a one-off or are there installments to be taken?

 

If there are further installments then I suggest that you report your card as stolen and that should block any further payments.

 

You should write a letter of complaint to Trading Standards. You should also contact your bank and tell them that you are being defrauded on your card payment. They won't want to hear this and they will say that you authorised the payment. You must insist that they accept the commplaint on the basis that the company took the money on a certain basis and that they have not honoured the conditions and are now refusing to refund.

 

You really should inform the police too although they will try to tell you that it is just a civil debt. However you should insist with them too but it will take a lot of doing because the police can be very stubborn and they don't like people telling them what the law is. However there is evidence here that Tigrent Learning UK may be avoiding a lawful debt contrary to S.2 Theft Act 1978.

 

Finally as you have given a deadline of 7 days, you must do something at the expiry of the deadline. You don't say what you told them yuo would do at the expiry of the deadline. This makes me feel that you probably said nothing.

So, your letter simply said I want a refund within 7 days ... err, that's it.

 

This is a message for you but to others who read this thread. Whatis the point of imposing empty deadlines? Also what is the point of threatening action at the end of a deadline and then not carrying out the threat? Itis all rubbish. It plays into the hands of the people who are trying to take your money and it makes it harder for consumers who really are earnest about getting their money back.

 

What you will have to do is to sue them in the County Court. As soon as you issue a claim, Tigrent will start dealing with you.

 

I suggest thatyou send them a 7 day LBA. During that time prepare to issue the claim. You can do it on http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk very easily. You will get your costs back.

 

Don't make the threat if you aren't going to carry it out.

 

Make sure that you make the other complaints that I have suggested as well. They won't help very much towards getting your money back but they will eventually send a message to Tigrent that they had better be rather more efficient at handing back people's money.

 

By the way, another reason why you should get the claim in fast is because companies like this sometimes go into liquidation. Then it will be goodbye to your money for good.

[sucker999]

Thank you for quick response Bankfodder, it is much appreciated.

 

To answer your questions:

 

The CC payments were one-off using two different credit card companies.

 

I am already in contact with Trading Standards. They told me to write to Tigrent telling them that they are in breach of The Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumer's Home or Place of Work etc. Regulations 2008. They also suggested that I copy the letter to the CC companies as they are jointly and severally liable under section 75 of the Credit Act. When I wrote to Tigrent I did not quote the legislation because I didn't know if it really applied in this instance (I was at a seminar held in a conference centre in a small town). However, I did copy in the CC companies when I informed them that the transactions were in dispute (Recorded Delivery mail) and I am currently awaiting their Dispute Forms which are coming through the post. I have been asked to submit a copy of the agreement with the completed forms.

 

You are correct in your assumption that I didn't tell Tigrent in my letter what I would do at the end of 7 days, hence my plea for help.

 

I will do as you suggest and issue them with a 7 day lba (when I find out what it is) and then in the interim prepare to issue the claim.

 

Please excuse my ignorance, but when we talk of 7 days, 30 days etc, is that 7 working days or 7 calendar days?

[sucker999]

OK, I have found out what an lba is and I have prepared it ready for posting later today as it is exactly 7 calendar days since I sent my 'toothless' letter. I am assuming that these grace periods are measured in calendar days and not working days. If anyone out there knows any different please let me know, I would hate to jeopardise my claim on such a trivial technicality!

 

HELP PLEASE - another point for clarification. I have been addressing my correspondence to the name of the Office Manager e.g. 'Joe Bloggs' but I have just read elsewhere on this website that when writing to a company I should address my letters to 'The Directors'. Is this going to be a problem if I change it now or do I have to start the whole process again?

Edited July 29, 2010 by sucker999

[sucker999]

No answers to my questions from the forum so I have gone ahead and sent by Special Delivery my lba addressed to 'The Directors' today.

 

Although I consider they have had ample time to process my refund, I have given them another 14 days because all my previous correspondence (2 e-mails & 3 letters sent Special Delivery) has been addressed to the name of the Office Manager and I do not want there to be any excuses like the Office Manager was away on holiday, off sick, on maternity, resigned or the like - I wish I had thought of that before!

 

On the expiry of the 14 days Tigrent will have had a total of 59 days in which to process my refund i.e. since the day my written notice of cancellation was delivered to their office and signed for on 15th June 2010. I hope that this will demonstrate to the courts that I have given the defendant sufficient time to process my refund.

 

If anyone out there knows any different, please let me know.

 

Now for the POC.........

[sucker999]

Please help if you know......

 

My claim value is for £7,611.00 - can I still issue a claim on-line?

 

Also, in addition to the Court Fees can I claim:

 

- Statutory Interest of 8% p.a. (the claim is for a refund that has not been processed)?

 

- the interest my credit card companies have charged me?

 

- the postage fees for all the Special Delivery letters I have sent to Tigrent?

 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[sucker999]

Knock knock, anyone there>

[perplexity]

As a matter of legal principle as well as common sense, the extra costs of chasing up a claim are consequential damages so should be claimed.

 

[btl99]

Hi I'm on this course now (2nd day tomorrow) and i'm very interested in why you have changed your mind and the problems you are having with the refund.

Can you tell me what happened?

Perhaps i can give you the detail of where we are now so you can call them?

[sucker999]

Hi BTL99

 

As I said in my opening post, the astronomical cost of the course (the refund I am due was not the full cost) was the reason I changed my mind.

 

I have still not received my refund, 61 days later.

 

In my experience, the fact that the agreement with Tigrent Learning UK Ltd has a 7 day cooling off clause (drawn to my attention at the time I signed) means nothing. Although I complied with the terms of the clause by giving written notice of cancellation (sent Special Delivery) in less than 48 hours, they have made no effort to action my refund.

 

The fact that I am left with no alternative but to resort to the courts to get back the money I am due is indicative of a company that is not acting with integrity and certainly not trading fairly. This is borne out by other posts on this website. By the way, the transactions processed on my credit cards were with ‘russwhitney.co.uk’ not Tigrent Learning UK Ltd with whom I signed the agreement???

 

My advice to you, based on my own experience and this is advice that you can take or leave at your own discretion, is to be absolutely sure in your own mind before you sign their agreement that you are prepared to risk your finance by enrolling on any further courses. Because, should you change your mind even within the 7 day cooling off period, woe betide you for you shall be sorely punished!

[btl99]

Hi Thanks for your reply and we were just given prices today so i can now see what you mean by very high prices. Did you do any of the the further courses? if so did you think they were worth it and have you put any of the training in to action? I will have to decide tomorrow and i 'm very nervious about signing up with money i don't really have spare

[btl99]

Sorry just read you inital post and it doesn't look like you did do any further training.

Have you purchase any any property with the knowledge you picked up on the course

[sucker999]

No I haven't purchased any more property, I'm too busy trying to get my money back!

 

As I said before, be absolutely certain you want to risk your finance before you sign up because if you change your mind you will not get your money back without a fight.

[Migster]

Did you open a dispute with the two credit card companies? What's happened with this? It sounds as though you have grounds for them to process a chargeback to recover your money.

[sucker999]

Did you open a dispute with the two credit card companies? What's happened with this? It sounds as though you have grounds for them to process a chargeback to recover your money.

 

Hi Migster

 

Yes, I have notified my credit card companies of the dispute and completed & returned their claim forms together with copies of the agreement and all correspondence. I am waiting to hear from them and hopefully they will have processed chargebacks as you say.

[Wickermran]

Hi I'm on this course now (2nd day tomorrow) and i'm very interested in why you have changed your mind and the problems you are having with the refund.

Can you tell me what happened?

Perhaps i can give you the detail of where we are now so you can call them?

 

Good luck with the course. I did them a few years back (2004, when they were still branded as Russ Whitney) and while they were generally overpriced and in my opinion slightly dubious value for money given the depth of the content, they did get my into property investing.

 

I have since purchased about 20 properties (hanging onto 15 or so with about 5k a month cashflow) and run a letting agency while still buying property - without this I would not have gotten started. Whatever you do check out other forums such as singing pig and landlordzone, as the detail and depth of knowledge on these sites is far deeper than the courses.

[Already There]

Dear sucker999 (though let me say now that I would not normally call anyone that)

 

I read your original post & the subsequent messages. I was curious as to whether you have received your refund now. I am considering a training course with them and I would like to know who I am dealing with.

[sucker999]

Yes, I did finally receive my refund at the end of August through chargebacks processed by the credit card companies. I did not receive any response to my e-mails or letters requesting a refund from Tigrent.

[Already There]

Thank goodness for that positive result.

I am shocked to hear how they have behaved. I also wanted to say thank you for your original post. It pays to use our credit cards!

[upset75]

Please can somebody help me?

i am still waiting for refund from Tigrent.... they trying to pospond payments all the time and worse of all they will pay by cheque they say.... can anybody help me?

[Kraken1]

why are you claiming a refund?

[geriwynne]

Did you ever receive your refund? I am just in the process of trying to get my £1000 deposit back, having followed the correct procedure, sending the pack back etc. I was told on the 3 day course that it would take 28 days to process a refund, should I decide to cancel. I've now been told it will take 45 days and I'm worried I won't get the money back even then. The material they used in their training was well out of date and the figures wouldn't stack up in today's marked, despite that I foolishly signed up, against my instinct. I would say to anyone who is thinking of attending - DONT DO IT! they love you into the sale then have no interest when you cancel, despite the fact I spent £600 on the course - not what they're after clearly, they want you to spend another £20k ! i GUESS THEY MUS MAKE PLENT OF MONEY OUT OF OUR CANCELLATIONS.

[FairplayA]

Hi There,

 

Please can somebody help me?

 

I attended a 3 day basic property investment course with Tigrent Learning UK Ltd and at the end of it signed up for an advanced course at an astronomical cost. I paid with credit cards and a cheque. Overnight I agonised at the amount of money I was paying out and decided that it was just too much so I phoned the next day and cancelled in terms of the 7 day cooling off period in the agreement. I also sent a letter Special Delivery which Royal Mail has confirmed was delivered & signed for the next day.

 

When I spoke to the Admin Manager I was told that I would get a refund within 30 days but I would need to sign a letter which would be sent to me in the next couple of days. I also received an e-mail confirming that they had voided my cheque (thank goodness!) and would be sending me a letter to sign.

 

Despite a couple of telephone calls, an e-mail and another letter sent Special Delivery advising them that I had not received the letter I had to sign, all sent within the 30 days, I have not yet received the letter or my refund!

 

On the expiry of the 30 days I sent another letter Special Delivery insisting on my refund within 7 days and this grace period is about to expire.

 

I have informed the two credit card companies that the amounts are in dispute and I am waiting for the forms they need me to complete to come in the post. I am now being charged interest by the credit card companies.

 

Without going to a solicitor and incurring additional cost, what else can I do to enforce the refund I am entitled to?

 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

-------------------------------*******************************--------------------------------

 

I wish I had checked out their records before joining.In my case I started out by attending their basic training which consisted of 3 days at £997 but they conduct this course with the underlying motive of selling their advance courses the minimum price of which starts at £11112.00. This price consists of only 6 days of formal teaching.Most people who ask them about what services are included will expect them to give accurate and honest answers, but they don't. In my case they told me that my unemployment would be no hindrance to getting mortgages and loans and that I would still be able to achieve a portfolio or multi-acquisitions irrespective of my unemployment. They also told me that one of the great benefits of joining would be that I would get access to specialiazed solicitors and builders and be able to recruit other power team from them given that "Power team" is a term they give to all the professional service providers you would need to hire in order to make your property acquisitions/portfolio business possible eg Accountants, solicitors, mortgage brokers, builders, architects etc. but after joining I found this was simply untrue.

 

Furthermore, their Advanced course advertising leaflet which they named as "Advanced Courses Cirriculum" only gives a brief description of the courses (not a proper course contents list or syllabus) unlike the Basic training course whose leaflets at least published what tpoics would be covered in those 3 days. This AU leaflet also makes grand promises of uplifting skills and meeting professionals including covering finance topics and professionals during their courses as though we will be able to meet them and recruit from the courses.

 

In reality the 3 day advance course had no financially related topics, it had no topics to advance our practical skills to solve financial problems or solutions to help individual student's circumstances especially as the course were sold as though they could solve their financial problems. I found that the term "Professionals" turned out to mean (fellow students) who were in no better position to help with our individual development or solve our financial problems and were mostly less experienced than myself. Unlike normal courses, there was no assessments or evaluation or feedback for homework or any practical exercises which their booklet on "Preparing for the Advance course" seems to suggest they would give. The 3 day Adv. course was conducted in the following form :

 

Day 1 : General motivational topics for the morning part of the course, a review of the cashflow calculations and then they introduced a Mortgage Broker whose role was to attract customers for their business. This session did not consist of discussing various types of morgages. However a chat with them revealed for the first time for me that I would not be getting any mortgages nor loans.

 

Day 2: A third of day (2) was spent on trading stocks and shares business and the stock market

 

Day 3: Half of day (3) went behind meeting mentors to quiz them and play games to do with checking who we can get on with, and this had nothing to do with training us on property related topics. This was basically a mentor selling exercise which should have been allocated a seperate half day and not taken out of our limited training time.

 

In other words, a little over one day's worth was spent on property related topics and this is just simply not enough to train new people into becoming professional property investors.

 

I then found that they could not even deliver my course package for the remainder of the course as mine included wanting the mentorship programme. They did not have either the motivation or the ability to allocate my chosen mentor within the times scales I wanted as I had chosen their fast track programme.

Once I told them of my shocking discovery that I had been mislead as to mortgages and loans due to my unemployment they cared little to find a solution and assure me that they could solve such a problem. Instead when I challenged them to come up with a solution they stopped replying altogether.

Furthermore I was also horrified to find that they only tell us about the limitations of the mentortship help ie "Exclusion clauses" after the 7 day deadline not before, this means it was an unfair contract but they cared little.

 

Feel free to keep track of my case as it goes to court !

Edited June 14, 2012 by MARTIN3030

[geriwynne]

 

I did get my refund, but not with the help of Tigrent. I contacted my bank, told them exactly what happened and they agreed I had cause to get my money back. They reversed the transaction from my bank account to Tigrent's and said that Tigrent had 30 or 60 days (can't remember) to claim back the money, which of course they didn't as they were contractually obliged to refund this to me. So I suggest you contact each of your credit card companies and bank and get them to do the same. Tigrent won't claim it back as they owe you the money! What a bunch of sharks - please spread the word wide and far about this dreadful company who should not be allowed to trade. Hope this helps

[FairplayA]

Thank you for your feedback. Unfortunately I paid Tigrent via my debit card which had safety check procedures that I had to get the bank to loosen in order to be able to authorise the payment . So I think the bank is unlikely to reverse it automaticaly. But it is worth enquiring. Besides I have now incurred legal costs and loss of rental income which I need to recover so the way things are going I am very likely to end up in court with them.