Bryan Carter - advice needed asap please

[foolishgirl]

Just a point of caution with the letter. Parties can only extend the time to file defence by up to 28 days (CPR 15.5). If there is agreement that defence is filed 14 days after receipt of docs it may take it beyond the 28 days. Why not just go get claimant to agree to extension of time by 28 days beyond 20 August? Tell them if they don't agree you will seek the extension of time by application and you will be seeking costs of the application. If they don't agree, go for order and go for an unless order then. If they do agree and they don't come up with docs by, say 14 days before the extended time ends go for your unless order then.

 

 

Excellent point made Robin.

 

To clarify, Annubis is asking that the docs be supplied by 20 August (her original defence deadline) with filing of 'extended' defence 14 days after. I think this would comply with CPR15.5.

 

If they don't agree to this arrangement by 13 August, she will file as normal on 20th.

[RobinWayRobinme]

If it were me, I would write and say that "whilst you should have all documents available relied upon in the POC, I am prepared to allow a little extra time to provide copies. However, as I am unable to fully plead my defence until I have the requested copies I would ask you to agree under CPR 15.5 to extend the time for filing the defence by a further 28 days. Should you not agree to this request, I will have no alternative but seek an extension by application and will be seeking my costs of such" or something like that. Give them, say, 7 days to reply and then batter them with another letter. If it gets to 14 days, you have given them enough warning then go for an unless order by application (ie claimant discloses copies of folowing docs requested under 31.14 within 14 days and defendant serves defence 14 days etc. should claimant not comply with order matter struck out, or something like that)

 

I wouldn't do any more than that at this stage. Its being pro-active and keeping control of events and hopefully preventing Bryan Carter getting up to any tricks. It also looks good to the court as well. Personally, I would not give deadlines in the first letter.

R

Excellent point made Robin.

 

To clarify, Annubis is asking that the docs be supplied by 20 August (her original defence deadline) with filing of 'extended' defence 14 days after. I think this would comply with CPR15.5.

 

If they don't agree to this arrangement by 13 August, she will file as normal on 20th.

[Annubis]

Ok Robin, taking into account what you said, and basing it on Elsa's letter, how does this sound?"

 

Dear Mr Carter,

Thankyou for your letter of xxxx in which you state that you feel that my CPR 31.14 request for documents is unreasonable in part, requesting an extension of 28 days to supply the documents.

 

I feel that my request was reasonable in view of the fact that, in order to justify issuing proceedings, the supporting documents should already have been in your possession although I am prepared to allow a little extra time in order for you to provide copies. (DO I NEED TO SPECIFY A TIMELINE HERE - I'm confused what to do as Robin suggested no timeline? If I don't put a timeline that would imply I am agreeing to his 28 day extension yes?)

 

However, as I am unable to fully plead my defense until I have the requested copies I would ask you to agree under CPR 15.5 to extend the time for filing the defense by a further 28 days.

 

Should you not agree to this request, I will have no alternative but seek an extension by application and will be seeking my costs of such.

 

yours sincerely

 

Can someone let me know if this is alright please? We need to post this morning, Saturday could not be done due to personal circumstances.

 

Thanks!

Edited August 9, 2010 by Annubis

[citizenB]

Yes, you should give a date or an amount of time by which you wish them to respond. This will enable you to be proactive and apply for the extension via the court if necessary.

[RobinWayRobinme]

Hi, just changed it a bit. Hopr it makes sense

R

Ok Robin, taking into account what you said, and basing it on Elsa's letter, how does this sound?"

 

Dear Mr Carter,

Thankyou for your letter of xxxx in which you state that you are unable to comply with my CPR 31.14 request for documents within the time stated.

 

I feel that my request was reasonable in view of the fact that, in order to justify issuing proceedings, the supporting documents should already have been in your possession. Under the circumstances, I am prepared to allow an extension of time for you to comply with my Request until [enter date allowing 14 remaining days from the extended time for filing defence], conditional on your agreement to extending the time for filing and serving the fully pleaded defence by 28 days under CPR 15.5.

 

Should you not agree to this request within 7 days, I will have no alternative but seek an extension of time for filing the defence by application and will be seeking my costs of such.

 

yours sincerely

 

Can someone let me know if this is alright please? We need to post this morning, Saturday could not be done due to personal circumstances.

 

Thanks!

[citizenB]

looks good to me

[foolishgirl]

Should you not agree to this request within 7 days, I will have no alternative but seek an extension of time for filing the defence by application and will be seeking my costs of such.

 

Would suggest amending this para to:

Should I not receive your agreement to this request 14 August 2010, I will have no alternative but seek an extension of time for filing the defence by application to the court and will be seeking my costs of such.

[Annubis]

Hi, Just got the letter back from Bryan Carter agreeing to the 28 days. I gave him to 20th August for the documents and its now 18th and nothing has arrived. Therfore I am presuming I still need to put a defense in?

 

Do I post this defense, and also if so, what kind of thing do I put in my defense?

 

Thanks in advance!

[RobinWayRobinme]

If me, I would have a letter prepared for the 20/08 saying something along the lines that the agreement to extend was on the understanding that you would provide copy documents etc. by 20/08 to enable you to prepare a fully pleaded defence by [say the date agreed to extend by] you have failed to provide copy documents and therefore you have no case to answer (or something like that). Tell them you will be seeking an order for them to provide copy documents to enable you to plead your defence. I would then prepare an unless Order for court (ie unless claimant provides a, b, c by [date] the claim be struck out . The Order would obviously need to be drafted properly, but it keeps you in control as it would appear you have nothing at this time to base your defence on.

 

Mind you, you may find docs turn up at last minute or a day or two late.

R

Hi, Just got the letter back from Bryan Carter agreeing to the 28 days. I gave him to 20th August for the documents and its now 18th and nothing has arrived. Therfore I am presuming I still need to put a defense in?

 

Do I post this defense, and also if so, what kind of thing do I put in my defense?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Annubis]

Hi Robin, so my defense has to go to BC and not the court? Is this correct?

[RobinWayRobinme]

Your defence would be served on Claimant (sols on record) and also filed at the court.

R

Hi Robin, so my defense has to go to BC and not the court? Is this correct?

[Annubis]

So I post what you said basically to the court address and BCarter? I am sorry its all new to me, I haven't got any clue what I am meant to do.

[RobinWayRobinme]

Not sure you have grasped my ealier post. I was not suggesting putting in your defence but, as they have not provided copy of docs you may not be able to prepare a fully pleaded defence. If this is the case, I,m suggesting going for an unless order for them to comply.

R

So I post what you said basically to the court address and BCarter? I am sorry its all new to me, I haven't got any clue what I am meant to do.

[Annubis]

Ok Robin, Thankyou! Do I legally have to let the court know though as they will be expecting a defense I presume? I don't want Carter to win by default, and this is the first time I have had to do anything like this so I need to ensure I am doing things exactly right

[RobinWayRobinme]

If you cannot file and serve your defence because claimant have not provided docs they are relying upon and, as it appears in your case, they have agreed to an extension of time to file your defence because of their failings, you have 2 options. 1. go for an Order compelling them to provide copy docs within certain period which if they don't comply with case struck out then if they comply you file fully pleaded defence within, say 14 days of receipt of listed docs, or (2) file and serve an embarrassed defence. Personally, I would go for option 1 as it keeps you in control, but its up to you.

 

Claimant cannot obtain judgment by default as when they agreed to extending period for filing defence by 28 days you would have copied the court and advised them of the agreement and providing an application is made for an unless Order before the extended period ends, they should not be able to get judgment.

R

Ok Robin, Thankyou! Do I legally have to let the court know though as they will be expecting a defense I presume? I don't want Carter to win by default, and this is the first time I have had to do anything like this so I need to ensure I am doing things exactly right

[citizenB]

If the other side have agreed an extension of time to file your defence, you as defendant are obliged to advise the court of this. Sample letter below: Did you agree this extension by way of telephone call or letter ? If letter, then refer to it in the letter below and enclose a copy of it for the courts attention.

 

Her Majesty’s Court Service

County Court Bulk Centre

Northampton County Court

St Katherine’s House

21-27 St Katherine’s Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

FAO: The Court Manager

THIS IS NOT A DEFENCE

Dear Sir or Madam

Re:

Case No:

Claimant’s ref:

NOTIFICATION OF EXTENSION OF FILING DATE – CPR15.5

It has been agreed with the solicitors acting on behalf of the Claimant, that due to their inability to provide me with documents vital to my defence and requested under CPR, that an extension of time for me to submit my defence in accordance with CPR15.5 is appropriate.

The new filing date agreed with NAME OF SOLICITOR is XX XXXXX 2010.

I trust this is acceptable.

Yours faithfully

Enclosed, copy letter to Solicitors

[foolishgirl]

Hi, Just got the letter back from Bryan Carter agreeing to the 28 days. I gave him to 20th August for the documents and its now 18th and nothing has arrived. Therfore I am presuming I still need to put a defense in?

 

 

Can you just confirm please?

 

1. BC agreed to extension & you gave them unitl 20 Aug to supply docs?

2. Did you write to the court as CB has suggested in Post #66 notifying of extension? If not so so today.

3. Given the 28 day extension, what date does your defence have to be in by?

 

If you cannot file and serve your defence because claimant have not provided docs they are relying upon and, as it appears in your case, they have agreed to an extension of time to file your defence because of their failings, you have 2 options. 1. go for an Order compelling them to provide copy docs within certain period which if they don't comply with case struck out then if they comply you file fully pleaded defence within, say 14 days of receipt of listed docs, or (2) file and serve an embarrassed defence. Personally, I would go for option 1 as it keeps you in control, but its up to you.

 

The problem I see with not filing a defence at all & then going for a strike out on non-compliance is that if the strike out is granted & no defence has been filed, there is nothing to stop BC issuing a new claim (& without the permission of the court!). Issuing an embarrassed short defence would prevent this possible scenario.

[RobinWayRobinme]

Hi foolishgirl

How would claimant be able to issue a new claim without the permission of the court when the reason for the unless order is to force claimant to comply with CPR's and provide copies of the docs they rely upon in the POC. Even if they are allowed to start a new claim, they will still be required to provide copy of docs relied upon otherwise the same process is gone through again. All the time though you are hitting them where it hurts them most, that being their pocket with orders for costs awarded against them.

R

Can you just confirm please?

 

1. BC agreed to extension & you gave them unitl 20 Aug to supply docs?

2. Did you write to the court as CB has suggested in Post #66 notifying of extension? If not so so today.

3. Given the 28 day extension, what date does your defence have to be in by?

 

 

 

The problem I see with not filing a defence at all & then going for a strike out on non-compliance is that if the strike out is granted & no defence has been filed, there is nothing to stop BC issuing a new claim (& without the permission of the court!). Issuing an embarrassed short defence would prevent this possible scenario.

[foolishgirl]

Even if they are allowed to start a new claim, they will still be required to provide copy of docs relied upon otherwise the same process is gone through again.

 

Agreed, they would be stupid to try it!

[Annubis]

Okay so I copied my letter to the court but not heard anything back. Today I get a document which appears to be the egg agreement from Bryan Carter and he states I only have 14 days to file my defense????

 

He agreed to 28 days from receipt of docs, I do not understand what is going on. He has also said he will win by default if I do not put my defense in 14 days - he is going back on his word!

 

Anyway I need help with putting a defense together, I have no idea how to do this?

 

I do apologise, I am really stressed with it all, plus have probs at home and been very unwell. I am petrified I have to go to a court because I do not know how I am going to do it, I can't even get to my doctors at the moment I am too ill to move.

 

Please help your help would be very appreciated for my defense and let me know if he is acting outside the law with the 28 days.

 

Thanks so much!

[foolishgirl]

If the other side have agreed an extension of time to file your defence, you as defendant are obliged to advise the court of this. Sample letter below: Did you agree this extension by way of telephone call or letter ? If letter, then refer to it in the letter below and enclose a copy of it for the courts attention.

 

 

Okay so I copied my letter to the court but not heard anything back. Today I get a document which appears to be the egg agreement from Bryan Carter and he states I only have 14 days to file my defense????

 

He agreed to 28 days from receipt of docs, I do not understand what is going on. He has also said he will win by default if I do not put my defense in 14 days - he is going back on his word!

 

Anyway I need help with putting a defense together, I have no idea how to do this?

 

 

1. To repeat CB's question above -

Did you get BC's agreement to the extension by phone or in writing?

 

2. If in writing, did you send a copy with CB's letter above?

 

3. Did you mail your letter by Rec Del? If so, have you checked on Royal Mail website that it has been delivered?

 

This could be another dirty BC trick but it is possible that the 14 days date is correct as the date for an extension for submitting a defence can only be up to 28 days from the date it was originally due to be submitted.

 

What date was the original defence deadline? Work out 28 days from that.

 

On to your defence submission - can you please post up the copy of the agreement that BC sent (removing any personal details that might ID you - use photobucket or similar).

 

I appreciate that you are not well but this must be done as soon as possible if you hope to defend.

[RobinWayRobinme]

OK, lets recap whats happened. BC never produced copy docs on POC. You asked for and extension of time to file defense by 28 days (CPR 15.5). BC agreed to the extension. You informed court and sent copy of BC letter agreeing to extension by 28 days. Quite simply, they are playing games and any letter from them saying time limit is anything else is bullsxxt.

 

Providing the letter from BC agreeing to extension of time says they agree to extending time according to your letter then I would do 2 things:

 

1. Phone court ask them to confirm receipt of your letter (and copy of BC letter) sayinf that it has been agreed between parties under CPR 15.5 that you have an additional 28 days before you are required to file your defence.

 

2. Short sharp letter to BC thanking them for the docs provided and reminding them that under an agreement with them that the parties were allowed to do under CPR 15.5 it was agreed that you be allowed an additional 28 days to file your defence and they cannot go back on that now.

 

Next step is to look at docs you do have and see what defence you have or if their are any questions you need to ask BC before you prepare your defence.

 

R

[foolishgirl]

This could be another dirty BC trick but it is possible that the 14 days date is correct as the date for an extension for submitting a defence can only be up to 28 days from the date it was originally due to be submitted.

 

that it has been agreed between parties under CPR 15.5 that you have an additional 28 days before you are required to file your defence.

 

Note: The date MUST be not more than 28 days from the date of your original defence deadline, not 28 days from receipt of docs.

[RobinWayRobinme]

Yes agree fully FG. Annubis needs to make sure letter from BC is correct and that court have it noted on their records.

Note: The date MUST be not more than 28 days from the date of your original defence deadline, not 28 days from receipt of docs.

[Annubis]

Ok I think Brian Carter is playing dirty.

 

My original defense was meant to be in by the 20th August. However, an extension was agreed which was 14 days after receipt of docs. He has only just sent me the docs as you know and states that if I do not file a defence within 14 days he will claim judgement by default.

 

Now from what you lovely people say, I am allowed no longer than a further 28 days from the original 28 days right? This date is 17 September. However, if I count 14 days from when he sent the docs, it is a week later than the 17 Septermber, so he is counting on me not getting the docs in before 17th IMHO...

 

Please please help with a defence, I have no idea what I should be saying how it should be presented etc, and I need to get it posted no later than Tuseday to make sure it arrives for the 17th the latest.

 

Do I write the defence to the court? Once I have written that defense, please tell me what happens next and how long it will be? I don't think I am going to be well enough to go to court, what would happen then?

 

I am sorry I have not posted until now, was in hospital a couple of days x

 

PS If you need me to scan the credit agreement paper he has sent me, I can do,