Bryan Carter - advice needed asap please

[Annubis]

I'm not sure, its not clear at all - like I said, I am 99 percent sure this debt was sold on to Frederickson or maybe they acted for Egg? I just have a feeling that Brian Carter is trying to get the money and using Egg as the claimant when its no longer with them, as it states any money has to be passed on to him directly.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Nearly done

Was there any payment protection insurance on this card?

[Annubis]

No, I don't think so

[Undercover-Elsa]

There's a few versions of the CPR request letter around, I've decided to go with an amended shorter version:

 

 

Your address

 

Brian Carter

 

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

 

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court. I was most suprised to receive this claim as I received no Letter Before Action, merely a letter giving me 48 hours notice of your intention to issue the claim, which clearly breaches Civil Procedure Rules, a matter which will be brought to the attention of the court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of the documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

(You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.)

 

1. A photocopy of the signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

The copy should be easily legible. If a copy of a microfiche document is supplied, please confirm whether the original document is still in existence. If it is, then a copy of the ORIGINAL will be required to be produced.

If a copy of the original document no longer exists, then you must state this.

 

 

2. A true copy of any Default Notice issued, with confirmation of method and proof of posting

 

3. A true copy of any Termination Notice issued by the claimant.

4. A full breakdown of the amount claimed including any charges, late payment and over limit fees.

5. Any other documents that the Claimant seeks to rely on in court.

 

 

If a copy of the above documents is to be relied on in court rather than original, a copy of the Notice of Proposal to adduce hearsay evidence is required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995, together with proof of the authenticity of the documents as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including, but not limited to:

 

a) A copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

b) A copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original documents

c) Copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

d) Copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures and audit processes comply with the appropriate quality standards

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter.

 

Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy.

Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

Wait for others to comment and add/remove anything if necessary. Once it's good to go, you need to send it asap by Special Delivery to Bryan Carter.

 

I think you should also send a Subject Access Request directly to Egg, for all the details they hold on you.

Here's the template letter. Enclose a PO for £10 and send recorded delivery.

 

I think that's it for now, and welcome other comments/suggestions.

Have I missed anything?

 

Elsa x

Edited July 28, 2010 by Undercover-Elsa
added full breakdown to request

[Annubis]

Oh wow, that is AMAZING Elsa, thank you so very much! I will see if anyone else contributes as you say and if not, will send the letters first thing in the morning

[Undercover-Elsa]

Can't take any credit for it..I've just blended the short version from the CPR thread linked earlier with a couple of other things.

 

If anyone thinks we need to go with a fuller version, I've saved that too.

I'd be grateful for others input...

Elsa x

[citizenB]

That looks fine to me, Elsa:D

 

Annubus, send it to the solicitor named on the claim form.. NOT to the creditor/claimant.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Thanks CitizenB

[Annubis]

I'm just in the process of printing today. Elsa, if this asks for the orginal credit agreement, do I need to include a £1?

[Undercover-Elsa]

No, not with the CPR request.

 

The Subject Access Request is £10 though..but will provide all your info from Egg.

[foolishgirl]

Hi Annubis - just dropping by at Elsa's request

 

IMO the CPR31.14 is asking for a bit too much - you can only request anything mentioned in the POC so that would be the agreement & the monthly payment plan they say you have agreed to. All the rest should be included in your SAR request (and/or a CPR18 request to BC - no fee) which I agree you also need to send to Egg using the template she has linked to & adding in a request for a copy of the original credit agreement if they hold it & the info in 2,3,4 of the CPR31.14 letter above. You will need to send £10.00 PO with it (do not send a cheque, do not sign the letter - print, cross thro' sig or use dig. sig to prevent copying & pasting )

 

You have 14 days to acknowledge service with the court & (if you state you will defend fully) a further 14 days to compile a defence. The AS can be done online.

 

Do not believe anything BC might tell you re. procedures etc. - you would not be the first that had been mislead by them

 

Also see comments below:

 

 

1. Can I still defend if it is the case that I owe some

 

You should state you intend to defend the whole amount at this stage

2. Do I need to pay for a CPR request, and if so, who do I pay? I am presuming BC will need to supply all the paperwork I request?

 

Elsa has answered this - no fee for CPR request

 

3. How do I notify the court that I am awaiting paperwork requested, do I just ring them?

 

CAGers will help you deal with this as you go thro' the process

 

6. As I intend going bankrupt very soon, do I need to notify BC and the court of this? Will going BR stop all this?

 

Has notification of BK been served on you or is this a 'voluntary' arrangement? If BK is finalised, all creditors including CCJs will be dealt with as part of that process; in the meantime you have to defend this at all costs!

 

 

1. The left hand box says:

 

THE CLAIMANTS CLAIM IS FOR THE BALANCE DUE UNDER AN AGREEMENT WHICH IS NOW DUE AND PAYABLE. THE DEFENDANT AGREED TO PAY MONTHLY INSTALLMENTS UNDER ACCOUNT NUMBER XXXX BUT HAS FAILED TO DO SO.

 

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS THE SUM OF XXXX

 

Is this sum the full balance of what is owed on your card?

(Be aware that BC have a reputation for 'splitting' a claim to obtain their fees & then go after you again for the balance. They can't do this but they may try & it needs nipping in the bud now if this is the case.

THE CLAIMANT ALSO CLAIMS INTEREST THEREON PURSUANT TO S.69 COUNTY COURT ACT 1984 LIMITED TO ONE YEAR TO THE DATE HEREOF AT THE RATE OF 8 PERCENT PER ANNUM AMOUNTING TO 0.00

 

Interest of any sum cannot be claimed on a credit agreement but this cna be dealt with in your defence

Bryan Carter is authorised to sign, but its not a signature, its just his name typed.

 

Egg Banking is listed as the claimant and this is for Credit card.

 

Bryan Carter has added charges on to the amount but these do not appear in that column, but in a column on the right hand side.

 

This will probably be his fee

 

However, this does not seem right to me as I am sure the debt was sold on to Frederickson International (which is an arm of Bryan Carter right?)

 

CPR requests should establish in due course if the debt has been assigned to FI & in what capacity BC are acting. Don't worry for now. See (6)

5. I think the card was taken out around 14 years ago, and the last acknowledgement was about 2 years ago when I was paying through DMP but advised to go bankrupt - since then I informed them and have been saving.

 

Who advised you to go BK & are you sure this is your only option? If so, what stage are you at?

6. It states Egg as the claimant, but I am sure that Frederickson took it over, so not sure why he lists them when it is infact, himself claiming.

 

If Egg are stated as Claimant, it would appear that the debt has not been fullt assigned to FI, they are merely acting as debt collectors.

Edited July 28, 2010 by foolishgirl
info

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Foolishgirl,

Many thanks for looking in

Good point about the interest, I was wondering about that.

Re the CPR..I think the letter will have gone off now, but asked for the DN as well since it's needed in order to bring the claim at all on a CCA so hopefully we'll get away with that.

Annubis..you need to try to find your own copy of any Default Notice they may have sent. It will have been sent shortly (usually from 1 to 3 months) after you first stopped normal monthly payments.

It's a letter headed "Important, you should read this carefully...Default Notice served...etc etc" detailing nature of breach and what you need to do to remedy it. If they get it wrong, which they often do, it can help your case.

 

Elsa x

[Undercover-Elsa]

Just checking in Annubis...are you ok?

Did you manage to get the letters off?

Elsa x

[Annubis]

Hi Elsa,

 

So sorry, been quite poorly. The letter is ready to go tomorrow morning by special delivery, I haven't been able to do much - so sorry! I will keep you updated on how it goes, and thanks again for your help and support

[Annubis]

Ok so I got a letter this morning from Bryan - here is what it states:

 

Thank you for your recent letter, the contents have been noted.

 

We do not consider your request, in its entirety, to be reasonable. We believe this matter would most properly be allocated to the small claims track. It was our client's policy to issue agreements on or around the date of contract and statements throughout the duration of the agreement.

 

We confirm we have requested the necessary documentation from our client and hope to revert to you shortly.

 

We do require a further 28 day extension in order to obtain and file these documents.

 

We consent to an extension of time to file the Defence being 14 days from the date that documentation is sent.

 

We look forward to hearing from you in due course.

 

_______________________________

 

Ok, so can anyone advise my next step please?

[foolishgirl]

Personally I wouldn't agree to the extension of time on the grounds that they should have had the docs available before they commenced the claim .

 

However you need to be seen to be reasonable by the court so IMO I would grant them an extension to a specific date (eg 20 August) 14 days after which you will submit a defence providing the docs. have been provided by the date specified & if they haven't, warn them that you will apply for a strike out of their case without further notice.

 

If you agree & need help with the letter, shout...

[Annubis]

Hi, I do really need help with a response thanks

[Undercover-Elsa]

Dear Mr Carter,

Thankyou for your letter of xxxx in which you state that you feel that my CPR 31.14 request for documents is unreasonable in part, requesting an extension of 28 days to supply the documents.

I feel that my request was reasonable in view of the fact that, in order to justify issuing proceedings, the supporting documents should already have been in your possession.

 

However, in order to assist you I am prepared to agree to an extension until 20th August 2010.

Assuming I receive the documents, I will then submit my defence within 14 days of receipt.

If the documents are not supplied by that date I will apply to the Court for a strike out of the case without further notice.

yours sincerely

 

 

 

Something on those lines?

 

Elsa x

[foolishgirl]

Excellent Elsa - would just make the following suggestion for inclusion:

 

Dear Mr Carter,

Thankyou for your letter of xxxx in which you state that you feel that my CPR 31.14 request for documents is unreasonable in part, requesting an extension of 28 days to supply the documents.

I feel that my request was reasonable in view of the fact that, in order to justify issuing proceedings, the supporting documents should already have been in your possession.

 

However, in order to assist you I am prepared to agree to an extension until 20th August 2010.

Assuming I receive the documents, I will then submit my defence within 14 days of receipt.

If the documents are not supplied by that date I will apply to the Court for a strike out of the case without further notice.

 

If I do not receive your written agreement to such by 13 August 2010, I will proceed in accordance with the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

yours sincerely

 

 

 

Something on those lines?

 

Elsa x

 

If you receive their agreement by 13th then you will have to write to the court stating that you have agreed an extension of time to submit a defence with the Claimant, enclosing a copy of their agreement. It just needs a letter, not a formal applic. but make sure you watch your deadlines re. timing. (send by Rec. Del)

Warning: BC can play dirty & this may well be a ruse for them to obtain judgment by default so cover your back at every turn.

[foolishgirl]

BTW Annubis, have you acknowledged service yet? It can be done online but if you need help, shout.

 

Just to make sure dates in the letters above look about right, what date was your defence supposed to be in by?

[Undercover-Elsa]

Good edit FG.

I agree, you need eyes in the back of your head with this guy.

 

Hope you're feeling a bit better today Annubis xx

[Annubis]

Hi Guys, thanks so much!

 

FGirl, yes, I have done the AS online

 

Ok really need help with dates. The court papers were sent out on the 21st July, I received them on 23rd July but actually didn't get to see them to the 26th as I was too poorly and unable to move/do anything.

 

It is then that I came here, found you wonderful people and filled in the AS as advised.

 

Another issue is with the dates of this current letter, which I have prepared (but not yet printed) is today is Friday, special delivery is not going to get there until Monday now as it is after 1pm and I have not long been able to move - this is part of the problem because it takes me longer to see things or do things.

 

Anyway - do I need to extend the dates before I print the letter, considering that the 13th is next Friday and he won't get it until Monday? I was thinking of adding two days, would that be right?

 

Thanks so much for your help so far x

[foolishgirl]

 

Ok really need help with dates. The court papers were sent out on the 21st July, I received them on 23rd July but actually didn't get to see them to the 26th as I was too poorly and unable to move/do anything.

 

Service was on 23 July, therefore you must ensure the court receives your defence by 20 August (28 days after service) unless you get agreement to the extension from BC by 13th.

Another issue is with the dates of this current letter, which I have prepared (but not yet printed) is today is Friday, special delivery is not going to get there until Monday now as it is after 1pm and I have not long been able to move - this is part of the problem because it takes me longer to see things or do things.

 

Anyway - do I need to extend the dates before I print the letter, considering that the 13th is next Friday and he won't get it until Monday? I was thinking of adding two days, would that be right?

 

Demanding BC's consent by 13th is not unreasonable. Received Monday, he has 5 whole days to say yes or no - how long does it take to write a letter?

 

You also have to take into account that if they do not agree, you will have to have a defence in by the following Friday - not a lot of time to seek advice here, compile & submit, particulatly given your health problems.

 

Try & get that letter off tomorrow ....

[RobinWayRobinme]

Just a point of caution with the letter. Parties can only extend the time to file defence by up to 28 days (CPR 15.5). If there is agreement that defence is filed 14 days after receipt of docs it may take it beyond the 28 days. Why not just go get claimant to agree to extension of time by 28 days beyond 20 August? Tell them if they don't agree you will seek the extension of time by application and you will be seeking costs of the application. If they don't agree, go for order and go for an unless order then. If they do agree and they don't come up with docs by, say 14 days before the extended time ends go for your unless order then.

 

Just an opinion. Hope it is helpful.

R

[Annubis]

Thanks both

 

Ok, now considering Robin's point, what should I do? I'm thinking back to the comment of BC playing dirty and winning by default - and then Robin points out

 

"Parties can only extend the time to file defence by up to 28 days (CPR 15.5). If there is agreement that defence is filed 14 days after receipt of docs it may take it beyond the 28 days."

 

Is this BC playing dirty? Should the letter be amended?