Wife facing Disciplinary action

[owlse]

Hi just looking for a little advice on my wives case

 

She works for a well known supermarket, and has been accused of using threatening behaviour to a follow member of staff, for passing on a message from a 3rd party who once worked there.

The case was investigated by her immediate manager and a decision was made to pursue a case of misconduct

the case of misconduct was heard a week after and the assistant manager said after conducting the hearing that the case was too serious and it would have to be heard again by the store manager and was warned that demotion or dismissal could take place.

My questions are after this was investigated it was seen as a misconduct charge, can this be changed to gross misconduct charge?

Also the incident was so trivial, and this is now causing my wife serious stress, she as no other warnings on file and as worked there for a number of years,

Luckily she is a member of a union and she will be seeking their advice

 

Thanks in advance for any advice

[BankFodder]

Nasty.

 

The only advice is to make copious notes of everything that happpened, happens in future, and all conversations. Keep the notes off-site.

 

Keep the union closely involved - but I'm afraid, be prepared to be let down by the union. Unless you are very lucky, the union will only give moral comfort but will be unable to give real protection.

 

Dismissal would be a very serious step after several years of service with no other problems.

[owlse]

Thanks for the reply , yes i have asked her to make sure she gets a copy of all the notes taken, what really confuses me is that she got a letetr stating it was to been delt with as misconduct, yet the deputy store manager now seems to have moved it up a notch, can they do this ?

thanks again

[BankFodder]

I would say that they can if they find new evidence. Of course if they keep changing the goal-posts then it will look better for you if you have to end up in front of an IT

[BankFodder]

I would say that it owuld be worth writing to them and noting that they seem to have altered the basis for their investigation and could you please have confirmation that this is so and if possible an explanation of their change of position.

[rebel11]

Hi Owlse,

 

I think your wife has to judge her treatment against a background of similar treatment. Have there been any other similar cases? What was the result? Are the store using your wife as an example? which is clearly wrong. Union's are pretty poor these days, just question everything they do. Too often people follow union advice without asking questions.

Edited July 25, 2010 by rebel11

[owlse]

Hi and thanks for all the replies

There is no new evidence and she says they have not said anything about moving it to gross misconduct but surely for them to move it to as they call (grade 4 which includes dismissal and demotion) they must have?

the disciplinary was set for yesterday and we hoped that would be the end to it, but as I said the deputy manager stated that it was too serious to be dealt with by him and set up a new appointment for late next week with the store manager and on this letter it does state could lead to the dismissal/demotion , my wife is so stressed and believe me I can’t believe they have taken it this for, she said something that perhaps in hind sight she should not have but to put her job at risk is just a joke, I have asked her to ask for copy of all the notes so far, I am not aware of any other cases but I will look into this too,

Again many thanks for the help it’s very useful

[orfoster]

Nasty.

 

The only advice is to make copious notes of everything that happpened, happens in future, and all conversations. Keep the notes off-site.

 

Keep the union closely involved - but I'm afraid, be prepared to be let down by the union. Unless you are very lucky, the union will only give moral comfort but will be unable to give real protection.

 

Dismissal would be a very serious step after several years of service with no other problems.

 

Oi Mr Bank Fodder, not all us union reps are like that!

 

All I would say to all those on the site that are members of trade unions and have issues with individual representation please use the complaints procedure in place for your union.

 

Alot of union reps were trained many years ago and don't get the facilitation time to renew their skills.

 

Certainly if this case could be a gross-misconduct case I would ask for Regional Office support on the case and get a full time official to deal with the case.

 

Have you not informed the union yet about the case? Its really important to inform them at the earliest opportunity.

[orfoster]

I would have a good read of the employers disciplinary procedure, if the union is recognised it may be that the procedure has been negotiated and they may be incorrect.

 

If during an investigation they deem the charge to be higher then yes they are obliged to let you know and the basis of that evidence but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

It seems your wife was called in quite quickly, did she receive written correspondance and was she invited in writing to have a union rep with her?

[orfoster]

Hi Owlse,

 

I think your wife has to judge her treatment against a background of similar treatment. Have there been any other similar cases? What was the result? Are the store using your wife as an example? which is clearly wrong. Union's are pretty poor these days, just question everything they do. Too often people follow union advice without asking questions.

 

I don't agree that unions are "pretty poor" these days but I do agree she needs to ensure the union keep her informed of all developments on the case.

 

This case does seem odd, although I don't know the full details it does seem they are making something out of nothing.

 

As i've already said it is really important to let the union know asap that this is going on. Lots of people call me the day before the hearing and tell me there is a case.....

[honeybee13]

Hello there. I'm also wondering if it's worth involving HR or someone at head office. We often see examples of this kind of case being dealt with locally and it often seems to be on an uninformed basis.

 

HB

[owlse]

Thanks again to everyone, she has had a union rep who works with her up to this point, but I have asked her to phone our local office tomorrow to let them know the situation and see what they advice

I have had a look at the disciplinary workbook that they sent with the disciplinary invite letter, and it’s been split into 4 stages, stage 1 been verbal 2, first written 3, final written and finally stage 4 suspension/demotion/dismissal, the assistant manager according to the booklet can only issue up to stage 3, and only the stage 4 can be issued by the store manager,

the invite letter to the meeting clearly states that this is a misconduct charge, the new letter issued after the Disciplinary and signed by the deputy manager, does not say if it’s either misconduct or gross misconduct but it does state it will be held with the store manager and also states could lead to her dismissal, this all saga started back in may and is still ongoing although we did have a 2 week holiday early this month.

Again thank you

[rebel11]

Unfortunately, these days Unions are busy selling their members insurance etc. I talk from personal experience. This is not just on one occasion but

several, their conduct was outrageous, I did go to the very top. Sometime's you wonder who they are trying to kid, I think Unions are o.k. with dealing with big issues with many employee's but not if you an individual.

 

I don't agree that unions are "pretty poor" these days but I do agree she needs to ensure the union keep her informed of all developments on the case.

 

This case does seem odd, although I don't know the full details it does seem they are making something out of nothing.

 

As i've already said it is really important to let the union know asap that this is going on. Lots of people call me the day before the hearing and tell me there is a case.....

[Allwood]

Unfortunately, these days Unions are busy selling their members insurance etc. I talk from personal experience. This is not just on one occasion but

several, their conduct was outrageous, I did go to the very top. Sometime's you wonder who they are trying to kid, I think Unions are o.k. with dealing with big issues with many employee's but not if you an individual.

 

Totally agree, unions are just useless when workplace is not totally unionized they will pander to the employer to get their foot in the door. I know this to happen twice and this was to do with a disabled person that was told by the Union to keep putting in grievances now that can take a year for an end result.

 

They are now advertising themselves as organizers because they may have resolved a problem for another member at some other place of work, which bears no relation to current disputes that another member may have with their employer.

 

Also you must remember that unions will not let you have access to their legal profession on their panel until they are 70% sure that they are going to win. It is better to get a colleague to attend these meeting with you as union reps will pander to the employer because they want to keep you in work and it does not matter how bad the employer are toward their staff. Union wants to keep you paying their subscription and if you are not employed then they will not the get money every month.

 

 

 

That is just my opinion of them from experince.

[rebel11]

You got it in a nutshell!!

 

Totally agree, unions are just useless when workplace is not totally unionized they will pander to the employer to get their foot in the door. I know this to happen twice and this was to do with a disabled person that was told by the Union to keep putting in grievances now that can take a year for an end result.

 

They are now advertising themselves as organizers because they may have resolved a problem for another member at some other place of work, which bears no relation to current disputes that another member may have with their employer.

 

Also you must remember that unions will not let you have access to their legal profession on their panel until they are 70% sure that they are going to win. It is better to get a colleague to attend these meeting with you as union reps will pander to the employer because they want to keep you in work and it does not matter how bad the employer are toward their staff. Union wants to keep you paying their subscription and if you are not employed then they will not the get money every month.

 

 

 

That is just my opinion of them from experince.