Barclaycard - Mercers, Calder and now RMA and AIC

[aidem]

Hello everybody,

 

I have been reading these forums for a while and have already taken some of the actions advised here for similar situations (many thanks to those who gave their time and shared their wisdom). I am not sure about the next step I should be taking so I am writing for some more advice, and any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

I had two cards issued by Barclaycard in February 2003 and April 2004. I only mention one card here but everything applies to the second card as well, including correspondence. Neither card had PPI nor any charges applied worth mentioning (except interest) as I kept up with my regular payments. That is, until I lost my job in October last year. It became clear that I was not going to be able to continue with the payments so I contacted Barclay and asked for reduced payments which they accepted. I stopped using the cards and made a few payments until my financial situation got worse and even the reduced payments became impossible.

 

I sent Barclay a letter asking to stop the interest and any payments for a while and when they refused I sent another letter asking for further reduction in the monthly instalments, to be reviewed in six months (I was not aware of CAG forums and its excellent library at the time so the letters I sent are similar to but not exactly the same as those given in the library). My second request was rejected as well.

 

As it was a choice between spending what money I had for food, rent and other essentials and paying the monthly instalments Barclay demanded, I stopped paying Barclay. The balance continued to rise and the letters and phone calls increased tenfold. Calls were coming in at all hours of the day, sometime as late as 10.30, both from Mercers and Barclay.

 

A friend recommended I visit this forum so I became a member and spent the next few days reading through the threads here. In March, following the advice given in various threads for similar situations, I sent Mercers the letters [1, 2, 3] and a SAR [4] to Barclay. All of these letters were replied to by Barclay in several different letters, basically saying: they, or their agents, would continue to phone, write or visit while I owed money; my complaints about the frequency or timing of calls were unjustified; no original credit agreement would be sent. Instead, they sent a letter that appears in several other threads [5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13]. They also sent me hundreds of pages of print out of account activity and photocopies of the last six years' statements. There was nothing resembling a true copy of a credit agreement or anything with my signature on it though.

 

In reply, I sent a letter saying that they did not provide a true copy, nor anything with my signature on it, therefore I now considered the account to be in dispute. From this point on I did not talk to them on the phone, by refusing to provide answers to security questions they asked or simply by not answering the phone if I could tell that the call was coming from Barclay or their agents. Barclay replied with a letter, again stating that as far as they were concerned they've complied with the requirements of CCA request [14, 15].

 

Next, I started getting letters and calls from Calders Financial [16, 17, 18]. After replying to their first letter with a template from one of the forum posts, which I cannot locate now, but basically saying "account in dispute, it should not be passed on to you, provide CCA or return to Barclay", I ignored the remainder of their calls and letters. But please notice in [17] they say "we are returning your account to Barclay" then two weeks later in [18] they make a formal demand for payment.

 

The latest episode in this continuing saga is letters I received at the beginning of this week. One is from Risk Management Alternatives [19] who are apparently acting as agents of Barclay, and the other is from Allied International Credit (UK) Limited [20], which claims Barclay is a client. There was also a card resembling an appointment card from RMA, dropped through my letterbox yesterday [21].

 

At this point I am pretty confident that Barclay does not have a properly executed credit agreement or they would have produced it, but I am not sure where exactly I am since they say they met their legal obligations in providing with me with a copy of the agreement. Should I send them a letter as described in option 2 in this post [22]? Also I am not sure how to proceed with regards to RMA and AIC. I was thinking of replying to both DCAs with the template posted by slick132 in this post [23]. So my question would be: is this a correct course of action to take, or should I do something else? Your advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

I apologize for the length of this post. When I first arrived here, I was a little overwhelmed by the amount of information available here (almost three million posts! must be a world record). So I wanted to document my issues and progress for the benefit of others.

 

[1] http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter

[2] http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/590-letter-used-when-a-dca-threatens-a-doorstep-visit-

[3] http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/52-harassment/135--harassment-by-telephone-response-letter-

[4] http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca

[5] http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4362/barc01a.jpg

[6] http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1897/barc01b.jpg

[7] http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/45/barc01c.jpg

[8] http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/7528/barc01d.jpg

[9] http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5377/barc02a.jpg

[10] http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2981/barc02b.jpg

[11] http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5884/barc02c.jpg

[12] http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9422/barc02d.jpg

[13] http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5613/barc02e.jpg

[14] http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3049/barc03a.jpg

[15] http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9952/barc03b.jpg

[16] http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/157/calder01.jpg

[17] http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/696/calder02.jpg

[18] http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/9601/calder03.jpg

[19] http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/2060/riskma01.jpg

[20] http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3023/allint01.jpg

[21] http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4722/riskma02.jpg

[22] http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/224584-advice-required-barclaycard-2.html#post2639589

[23] http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/217811-barclaycard-no-contact-over.html#post2479749

[slick132]

Hi Aidem and welcome to CAG.

 

Some of the advice that you refer to, [22] and [23], has been superceded after the ruling by Judge Waksman in the case Carey v HSBC at the end of last year.

 

It is now accepted that the bank can fulfil the requirements imposed by s.78 CCA1974 by sending impersonal T&C's for an a/c. This leaves them free to pursue payments and register adverse markers on your credit records.

 

However, they should still require the credit agreement itself if they want the debt enforced by court action.

 

Court action, however, is rarely taken by BC or their DCA's and they prefer to use various DCA's to pursue payment. BC are notorious for refusing to acknowledge debtors problems and have an aversion to assisting by suspending interest or by accepting reduced payments.

 

You should not assume BC have no credit agreement - they simply avoid producing them in many cases.

 

If you can't maintain the required a/c payments, you can make token payments to show goodwill. You may already have seen the selection of letters here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-bailiffs-advice/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

You could also ask one of the debt help bodies to help because of BC's intransigence. See here - Debt: Where to Get Help - Consumer Wiki

 

To avoid the debt spiralling with the addition of interest and charges, you need the a/c to be closed. This is probably achieved quickest by stopping all payments and refusing to communicate with the DCA's.

 

Re the home visits, see here - http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/591-dca-home-visit-if-you-receive-or-are-threatened-with-a-doorstep-visit-

 

Continue to read other threads where you'll see many others are in the same position with BC.

 

[aidem]

Hi Aidem and welcome to CAG.

Hi slick132, thank you.

To avoid the debt spiralling with the addition of interest and charges, you need the a/c to be closed. This is probably achieved quickest by stopping all payments and refusing to communicate with the DCA's.

Would you please clarify? Would I do this in response to the last set of letters from RMA and Allied Intl. DCAs for example?

Continue to read other threads where you'll see many others are in the same position with BC.

I will. I will also update this thread with any further info as things develop. Many thanks for your time and advice.

[dx100uk]

best advise already given...

 

ignore everything. stop payments.

 

it will be bounced around no matter what you send or do.

 

wait for a letter from some leecher saying they have brought the debt.

 

then ask for a notice of assignment from them.

 

or

 

wait till you a default notice and scan that up.

 

dx

[lochlisa]

I am on the exact same boat and have had a rather nasty letter today telling me to act now or its County Court.

 

However, BC have still not supplied what I consider to be a valid CCA.

 

I have been paying a £1 per month now for 7 months and have been bounced around all the above agencies.

 

Is it right and proper to stop paying all together and see if it does go to court?

 

I cannot afford more than £1 per month as it is.

 

thanks and sorry if I have hijacked this thread but we do seem to be in the exact same condition.

 

Lisa

[dx100uk]

yes do the same

 

dx

[slick132]

To Aidem and to Lochlisa.

 

Would you please clarify? Would I do this in response to the last set of letters from RMA and Allied Intl. DCAs for example?

 

While the a/c is still being actively pursued as a Live a/c, BC will continue to add interest and penalty charges. My hope is that BC will close the a/c if you stop paying and/or communicating with them or their DCA's. At least then they will stop adding their normal monthly interest.

 

[aidem]

slick132, dx1000uk, many thanks. I understand. I'll take your advice and stop all correspondence. I'll update this thread as things develop. lochlisa, I don't mind at all, I know how worrisome all of this is.

[Turnaround]

Hi,

 

If you submit a SAR under the data protection act can they avoid producing the credit agreement then, if it exists.

 

Regards……Turnaround

[dx100uk]

no its a legal request as long as you make sure you specifically ask for it to be produced with a sep line in the sar.

 

they would look pretty silly infront of a judge if they produced it incourt after tellig you it did not exist, he would be none to pleased at time waiting tactics.

 

dx

[slick132]

Hi Turnaround,

 

The only way to ask for a credit agreement is using the CCA request. And we know how BC and others side-step this, by sending out T&C's.

 

A SAR is a request for data held about you. It will almost never produce a credit agreement.

 

[Turnaround]

Hi,

That is why I always suggest a SAR, when offering advice on here. If they have it, then they should produce it.

 

Further food for thought, it is my understanding that, if they then take you to court without an agreement, they are in breach of the Unfair Contract Terms act 1977 3.4

A commercial practice is unfair if:

• it is not professionally diligent, and

• it materially distorts, or is likely to materially distort, the economic behaviour of the typical consumer.

 

In my view this also applies to DCA’s tactics, when they clearly don’t possess any of the relevant documentation and how they distort the facts to bully consumers into economic submission.

 

Regards…..Turnaround

[Turnaround]

Sorry slick missed your post typing.

 

i understand what you are saying, but this should not be the case. they are willfully withholding information and should be made to produce it by the Information Commissioner.

 

Regards....Turnaround

[slick132]

Hi Turnaround,

 

The bank has no obligation to produce a credit agreement in response to a SAR, which is a request for data that they hold, not for specific documents.

 

[Turnaround]

Hi again slick,

 

I don’t think I agree with you analogy.

 

You are entitled to se all data held or you can specify documents ie: copy statements, letters and T&C’s etc. It also extends to photos, videos and telephone conversations, as you know.

 

Why do you consider a credit agreement falls beyond or is outside a SAR?

I cannot see any provision within the Data Protection Act that would support your view, unless you are implying that its specific to financial institutions, which I don’t support.

 

Regards…..Turnaround

[slick132]

Sorry to Aidem for thread hijack but I hope this is useful anyway.

 

Turnaround - Whilst you can demand to see data held that concerns you, you cannot dictate the format in which the bank (in this case) presents such data. You can ask for copy statements, for instance, but the bank does not have to supply them as long as they give you the data that the state's would show.

 

A credit agreement is not usually sent because this document is specifically covered by s.78 CCA 1974. I'm not saying it's right or fair but this is how the banks respond and the ICO and the FOS show no signs of contesting this.