Bit of urgent advise please re bailiffs

[lost_soul]

Hi Alll,

 

I have read the stickie re bailiffs but would just like some advice on our situation. I might waffle a bit so please bear with me.

 

Basically I met my other half 8 years ago. She was in the process of divorcing her husband and lived in a council house in Telford. They had been apart for about 6 months then when he found out she was seeing someone else he broke into her house and basically moved in (he was on tenancy). She fled down south and came to live with me. She told council she was leaving house etc.

 

Just got home from work to find 2 bailiff letters. First addressed to her ex husband and the other in both their names.

 

We have been married for a few years now so our tenancy is in her married name (my surname). My name is not on the agreement because I always said if we split up she should have the family home.

 

Basically 2 identical letters from Jacobs certified bailiffs for different amounts. It gives a council reference so I can only assume its for council tax and her old address at Telford.

 

The letter is as follows:

 

'TAKE NOTICE - I have attended your property today to find that you were not in.

YOU NOW HAVE 4 HOURS TO CONTACT ME TO CLEAR THIS DEBT IN FULL.

 

If you fail to contact me I will have no option but to make arrangements if appropriate, for Porters and Removal Vans to attend your premises with a view to removing goods.

 

PLEASE NOTE WE MAY EVEN REMOVE GOODS IN YOUR ABSENCE. IF WE ARE UNABLE TO GAIN ACCESS TO YOUR PROPERTY WE WILL UTILISE THE SERVICES OF A LOCKSMITH IF APPROPRIATE.

 

If we do not recover the full amount including the costs, then we will recommend that one of the following proceedings is taken:-

APPLICATION FOR YOUR COMMITAL TO PRISON or A CHARGING ORDER ON YOUR PROPERTY.'

 

As one of the debts is in her old name I have no problem paying it, but why should we pay for the one in his name? Also can they really gain entry?

 

It also says to contact them and not the council direct? Its got me worried so any advice appreciated - I dont know what to do. I know not to open the door to them etc but I am worried about them breaking in.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Darren

[MARTIN3030]

How long since she left the old address ?

Was there enforcement action going on then-any liability orders ?

[MARTIN3030]

What does joint and several liability for Council Tax mean?

 

"Joint and several liability" is a legal phrase, which means that each person with the same level of interest in a property (eg joint owners) is equally responsible for making sure the Council Tax is paid.

Joint bills are issued to all who are liable.

However each person named on the bill can be "severally" (individually) held liable if it remains unpaid.

This means that legally the council can recover all the money owed from any of the individuals.

Each tenant therefore is jointly liable with all the others in a property, even if they have no other connection with each other (except where individual tenancies exist for each occupant).

Married couples, or people who live together as a couple, are considered to be jointly and severally liable, even if they do not have an equal interest in the property.

[lost_soul]

Thanks for the quick reply. She left 8 years ago and informed them when she left. We have not had any notification of anything until I got home to find these letters.

 

As I said 1 is in both names and the other is in his name. Does this mean she is liable for his even though she has not lived there and is divorced? I can only assume that they assume she is still married to her ex.

[MARTIN3030]

There must be a liability order.

I am not sure how long a warrant for a L/O is valid for.

Please hang fire-someone will be along with more info.

Since theres no WP been signed they cant break in.

Their suggestions about prison etc is also scare tacs-its a Courts job to decide on that NOT the bailiffs.

 

How far away are you from the old address - is it same Council ?

Could really do with some more info.

[lost_soul]

Thanks again. I have been doing more reading.

 

It is Telford council and we are down in Bristol. I am assuming its council tax as it says the money is owed to Telford council. Wont know any more until we can call them on monday. I think the reason for 2 debts is because one is probably for him after we informed the council that she had moved.

 

Would I be right in assuming as there are 2 letters (each with different council and bailiff refs) there must be 2 L/O's (one in his name and one joint)? So if we pay the full amount owed on the joint letter that will be settled.

 

As for the other L/O - as its not in either of our names and she can prove they are divorced the bailiff will not be able to take it any further?

 

Thanks again

 

Darren

[selinajayne]

do you mean one letter is addressed to her and the other is addressed to her ex husband?

[lost_soul]

do you mean one letter is addressed to her and the other is addressed to her ex husband?

 

Yes thats correct. The one with her name has mr & mrs. The other is just mr. Both have the address in Telford they shared before they split up.

[selinajayne]

the letter that in only her ex husbands name she cant be held responsible for so i would call the council and tell them they have made a mistake

the letter that is in her name she will need to pay but if you can get it handed back to the council it would be better than paying the bailiffs

has the bailif been to your house and gained entry

[MARTIN3030]

Yes 2 different reference numbers would appear to suggest 2 accounts.

If it were me I would be ringing the Council to ask them for specific info-I cant see them refusing.

Of course (under the DPA) they will not discuss the account in the name of the ex.

 

You also need to know what the arrears were from the Council to determine what fees/charges the bailiffs have added.

 

Can you say what the amounts they are requesting are ?

 

Also is there any criteria which can be considered under enforcement ?

 

ie- are you on benefits/vulnerable status/etc etc ?

 

I would ask you to wait for more guidance here from someone like TT.

[lost_soul]

the letter that in only her ex husbands name she cant be held responsible for so i would call the council and tell them they have made a mistake

the letter that is in her name she will need to pay but if you can get it handed back to the council it would be better than paying the bailiffs

has the bailif been to your house and gained entry

 

No he has not gained entry and I will make sure my wife knows to speak through the letterbox to anyone.

 

We dont mind paying it if she owes it so should I send the bailiff payment or go to the council?

 

Thanks for the advice - its a weight off my mind.

[MARTIN3030]

the letter that in only her ex husbands name she cant be held responsible for so i would call the council and tell them they have made a mistake

the letter that is in her name she will need to pay but if you can get it handed back to the council it would be better than paying the bailiffs

has the bailif been to your house and gained entry

 

Not a good idea.

 

Paying the Council direct will still leave a shortfall - since the first bite of the cherry goes to the bailiff,then it still would leave an amount due on the arrears-meaning the bailiffs can still act on the warrant for the difference and so their charges increase the amount further.

[selinajayne]

if you pay the bailiff then you will have their charges too

i would call the council to clarify the exact amount owed and make sure the dates it was owed is from when she lived there

if you keep refusing to let the bailiff in they will refer it back to the council

i emailed my local councellor and he got it refered back to council

[MARTIN3030]

No he has not gained entry and I will make sure my wife knows to speak through the letterbox to anyone.

 

We dont mind paying it if she owes it so should I send the bailiff payment or go to the council?

 

Thanks for the advice - its a weight off my mind.

 

 

Before you pay-get the info from the Council.

Ask them to take the warrant back for the ex.

 

Ask them for a statement of account.

 

You can do a SAR at a later date seeking a screenshot-which should give more than they are likely to tell now.

[lost_soul]

Yes 2 different reference numbers would appear to suggest 2 accounts.

If it were me I would be ringing the Council to ask them for specific info-I cant see them refusing.

Of course (under the DPA) they will not discuss the account in the name of the ex.

 

You also need to know what the arrears were from the Council to determine what fees/charges the bailiffs have added.

 

Can you say what the amounts they are requesting are ?

 

Also is there any criteria which can be considered under enforcement ?

 

ie- are you on benefits/vulnerable status/etc etc ?

 

I would ask you to wait for more guidance here from someone like TT.

 

The joint amount is £231.08 and the ex's debt is £415.63.

 

We get working tax credit and are classed as low income, we can tighten our belt and pay it in one go - to be honest I dont like having debts and would rather just settle it in one go and eat plenty of beans on toast for the month!

 

I just dont want to pay his debt (last time we checked the CSA say he owes us 5k in unpaid maintainance), he has a habit of avoiding paying for anything.

 

Thanks again

[MARTIN3030]

PT -whats your take on this ?

[lost_soul]

Before you pay-get the info from the Council.

Ask them to take the warrant back for the ex.

 

Ask them for a statement of account.

 

You can do a SAR at a later date seeking a screenshot-which should give more than they are likely to tell now.

 

How do I prevent the bailiff from returning while waiting for the info?

[MARTIN3030]

£231.08-must have only been around £100 original arrears then by the time you take away the Court fee and £24.50

[selinajayne]

you could call the bailiffs and tell them your waiting for more info but they probably wont take any notice

[MARTIN3030]

How do I prevent the bailiff from returning while waiting for the info?

 

You could call the number he left and inform him you are disputing it and going to Council.Ask him to give you 48 hours.

[seanamarts]

Do not pay the bailiff anything until you have more information when this debt accrued, it may turn out that your wife dosnt owe it do to the fact that she had moved and if the council have record of this then your wife is not liable.

You need to know when this debt was from and to. If your wife has proof that she was not at the address when the debt occurred then she can dispute it.

In the mean time keep all windows and doors locked and dont open the door to the bailiff until this has been sorted. When you phone the council ask to speak to some one in benefits and revenues and possibly ask to speak to the manager. I cannot understand why it has taken 8 years for the council to get in contact, You need to ask the council to send a copy of the liability order for your perusal so you can check dates etc and also ask for bailiff action to be put on hold until you have had a chance to get some thing sorted. I would also make a request that payments should be made to the council especially under the circumstances that your wife was unaware of this debt.

[seanamarts]

 

I just dont want to pay his debt

Thanks again

You or your wife are not liable for his debt. The bailiff company were wrong to send this to you as this is a breach of data protection. They have sent you his bill and what he owes. I would send it back stating that Mr (whatever his name is) does not live at that address and never has.

[ploddertom]

On Monday morning she will need to ring Telford Council and ask:

 

1 - how many Liability Orders are there

2 - what date each one was awarded

3 - how much each one is for

4 - what period(s) of time each one covers

5 - how much is still outstanding on each one

6 - what date(s) they were passed to the Bailiff

 

As long as the Liability Order was awarded within 6 years (I think) of it being due then it is has no "expiry date". If after this length of time then there is an argument for having it written off. In particular you need to check the dates it covers. Do you have any proof that your wife left the former home when she did?

 

Don't worry what the Bailiff states on his letter - look carefully and it is all insinuations, ifs, buts & maybes. In particular be careful tomorrow as he could be about.

 

PT

[lost_soul]

Thank you all for the help - it is much appreciated.

 

I cant understand why its taken so long either - just shows how efficient they can be at times!

 

We will be contacting the council first thing monday.

 

Thanks again - I will be able to sleep tonight!

 

Darren

[seanamarts]

You could call the number he left and inform him you are disputing it and going to Council.Ask him to give you 48 hours.

Sorry Martin I had to chuckle to myself there, :punless they have a nice bailiff dealing with this ( which I highly doubt but you never know) the bailiff would just laugh down the phone and say pay up.. I would suggest emailing the bailiff company and let them know what is occurring and ask them to give you time to contact the council so to get this sorted.