How do I stop 5k turning into 15k on Fast Track HELP Please :)

[pumpytums]

Hi everyone,

I need a little advice. I recently received a Claim for just shy of £5800 this includes a £190 fee.

 

The Claim relates to a OD (please keep reading). Firstly they have neglected to knock off £100 which I have paid since the original LBA last year. Secondly they owe me approx £2.5k due to a account product which I don't ever remember asking for the last 10+ years.

 

Now the remainder is made up of charges, interest on charges etc if I decided to argue these under unfair relationships etc I have no doubt at all it would go to Fast track. If I lose I could end up with £10k costs.

 

How do I argue that I want it small claims?

 

So how do I stop this?

 

1. Admit to £1k reducing the remainder to under £5k and then go after them full tilt. Can I do this? If I had the cash I would pay this now but sadly I don't.

 

2. Mediation get them to drop £2.5k, then go after them full tilt.

 

3. Mediation get them to drop £2.5k, then make monthly payments to pay off the remainder. If a certain Northern case goes our way can I then chase them for the charges?

 

4. Mediation go for monthly payments.

 

Interesting point by the way out of all my debts the two that have got to court are one bought by a nefarious debt buyer whose name rhymes with a mixture of red and white (case now discontinued) and a high street bank who wants us all to love them. Tells you something doesn't it.

 

Don't get me wrong I think I have a good case I just don't want £5k turning into £15k and funding someone's hot-tub.

 

At the moment costs will be negligible once it gets to SJ stage it could be £2-3k easily.

 

I'm currently at the AQ stage.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Pumpytums

[GuidoT]

You probably have an N150 and not N149, the latter is a small claims AQ.

 

In your AQ 150 you have the option to suggest a track, obviously suggest small claims and then in the box below you should make you case on the small claims track allow.

 

1. This is a relatively straightforward [explain why] matter thus it is suitable for the small claims track.

 

2. The defendant is a litigant in person and the claimant a large organisation with sufficient resources and funds to conduct this litigation. From an access to justice perspective, attempts should be made to place parties on a more equal footing. One party should not feel pressurised or intimidated because of the costs consequences of litigation and effectively denied the opportunity to defend itself.

 

3. The claim is for £x, plus statutory interest of £x, thus £. Pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules Part 26.8(2) (b) interest should be excluded when deciding a track for the claim [i am not sure if this put you below the threshold].

[pumpytums]

Hi GuidoT,

thanks very much. They haven't claimed interest.

 

Thats very true I do find myself pressurised as I cannot afford a Solicitor and the thought of paying huge sums for the Claimants one is very daunting indeed. Especially on a sum that could be small claims.

 

How else could I make sure it's on small claims?

 

Would it benefit the Claimant as the disclosure becomes minimal?

 

Out of interest can it be allocated to small claims and the Claimant still be awarded £5k+.

 

.

 

Luckily I had the dispute regarding the product prior to the claim, I also made the Claimant "solicitor" more than aware that the amount claimed was in dispute and that the amount they were claiming was incorrect. Their response nothing. I also indicated that token payments were been made.

 

Thanks

 

Pumpytums

[GuidoT]

The £5K threshold is not a hard and fast rule, case can be down or up allocated.

 

The downside of not having standard disclosure should be more that offset by the cost exposure benefits on the small claims track.

 

Do not think there is much else you can do, save of course pay it all before allocation!

[pumpytums]

All I can do is go for mediation.

 

If I was to admit to say £1k would that then throw the remainder to allocation?

 

My holding defence was not embarrassed I simply stated I was unable to plead due to the POC's I even requested an extension docs under CPR's. They decided to ignore my letters requesting confirmation of the extension in writing, so I had to submit a minimal defence.

 

So again I have been trying to minimise costs. They to be honest have been silent.

 

Pumpytums

[GuidoT]

If of course you settle the matter through mediation, then track allocation is not that important, but it is likely to be allocated before the mediation.

 

You have not said what your claim is about, overdraft, credit card etc. I think an embarrassed defence is not good enough though. You need to plead your defence properly. Have a good read around the forums.

 

I do not think that admitting £1K would assist with your track allocation now, also I am not sure that admitting £1K will do to your claim in terms of your prospects, e.g. if you claim is an all or nothing scenario.

 

Pff post 4,000.

Edited July 23, 2010 by GuidoT

[pumpytums]

Hi,

the claim is regarding an overdraft.

 

The defence was based on what they have currently supplied 7 years of statements and an incomplete notice that refers to a Notice served under CCA 1974 that they have not supplied. The statement were supplied outside the time frame required.

 

The POC was woeful :

 

"The claimants claim is in respect of monies due pursuant to an account maintained with the claimant"

 

"and the claimant claims:

 

1. cash over 5K

 

2. Costs

 

So I basically Defended on the fact that no breakdown, no statutory notices, no t&c relating to the account, no proff that monies were due etc. I then stated that I was able to identify the account and that it was currently subject to disputes. I of course added that I wished to amend my defence should a particularised POC be given.

 

As I said I tried for an extension it was ignored. So I didn't have time to ask for them to re plead their POC.

 

Shockingly bad POC but it's their standard for loans and OD's.

 

My defence was as follows :-

 

Defence

 

1. I ***** am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by Blah.

 

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the claimants Particulars of Claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

3. The Defendant due to the vague and generic nature of the Claimants Particulars of Claim requested further information under CPR 31.14 Disclosure and Inspection & CPR 18 Further Information.

 

4. The Defendant sent the Claimant a request under CPR 31.14 & CPR 18 via Royal Mail Special Delivery, the Claimant failed to respond to the request in the allocated time with the requested information.

 

5. The Defendant is able to identify the account that the Claimant refers to in the Particulars of Claim.

 

6. The Defendant is not able to plead on the Claimants maintenance of the account as no terms and conditions, history and communications relating to the account have been supplied. The Defendant also requires copies of any varied terms and conditions in the event of any unilateral variation in such terms throughout the life of any agreement.

 

7. The Defendant is unable to plead regarding the Claimants claim that monies are due. The Claimant has supplied no statute notices and/or notices served under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 or any other related act.

 

8. The Claimant has failed to set out how the figures claimed are calculated nor do they set out the nature and scope of any charges contained within the figure claimed.

 

9. The Defendant disputes the amount claimed as the account and its balance are subject to ongoing disputes with the Claimant. Both the Claimant and the Claimants solicitor were made aware of these disputes prior to the claim been issued.

 

10. The Claimant has failed to provide a true copy of any regulated agreement and/or agreement and any applicable terms and conditions that relate to the agreement.

 

11. I respectfully ask the court to use its case management powers to order the Claimant to disclose all of the information requested within this defence document as it is vital to allow me the opportunity to defend this action properly and would be unjust and totally unfair to allow this action to continue without allowing me the opportunity to view the documents which form the basis of this claim.

 

12. The Defendant wishes the court to be made aware that an extension was requested from the Claimant under CPR 15.5 of 28 days. The Claimants solicitor agreed to the extension verbally, the Defendant requested electronic or written confirmation the Claimants Solicitor has chosen not to respond. The Defendant was advised that written confirmation should be obtained from the Claimant by the Northampton County Court Bulk centre. The Defendant was unable to write to the Court informing them of the agreed extension as no written confirmation was received.

 

13. I respectfully request the courts permission to submit an amended defence should the Claimant file a fully particularised Particulars of Claim.

 

 

Pumpytums

[Undercover-Elsa]

Did they not issue you with a Default Notice, Pumpytums?

[pumpytums]

Hi Elsa,

I think they did, I was at the bin it stage some of go through. If only I knew then what I know now. Basically it was a s76(1) & s98(1) one compliant but not to be used for default situations. The covering letter clearly states attached default notice, the charge on my account is for a default notice etc. I believe as does banker_rhymes that this notice is incorrect.

 

I have a thread but I have distanced myself as I believe the solicitors in question are know to read these forums.

 

The letters I refer to are standard i just can't locate mine at the mo.

 

The following thread has exactly the same letters.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/268992-natwest-overdraft-default-notice.html#post3049888

 

As I have said if it was small claims I would fight all the way. I just don't want to end up with £15k instead of £5k, justice is indeed for the rich.

 

Pumpytums

[pumpytums]

Polite bump.

 

I had a look at mediation, sadly I can't afford that. So I will request a stay of a month to try and settle with them. Sadly the case on certain levels is simple ie the addition of the product, but if I try to Claim back back charges then it would get complicated so I'm in a catch 22 situation.

 

1. Request refund of Product and settle on remainder I have to pay back £3k over a period of years. This seems to be the best option as nothing will stop me claiming back charges if things change in the future.

 

2. Request refund of product + charges (Fast track) Worst Case I end up with a bill for £15k.

 

3. Request refund of product (small claims) argue of the way the account was terminated. Worst case CCJ for £5k

 

The OD was not correctly defaulted in my opinion but I started making token payment after it. The only thing is I have checked my paper work and I find no evidence of the default notice they sent. My SAR last year shows no evidence of the notice. The only evidence I have that one was ever issued is a DEFAULT on my account.

 

Any help would be gratefully appreciated, I don't know what to do with regards to the AQ. I may simply argue the fact on the product and how the account was terminated.

 

How do I make a settlement offer to the Claimant does it have to be via cpr 36? DO I simply state refund x back to the account and I will pay y monthly?

 

Help will be appreciated please.

 

 

Pumpytums

[pumpytums]

Ok I'm going to try the following.

 

I will send the OC a Without prejudice letter. Asking for the refund of the product fees plus all the charged interest etc. And make them a monthly offer.

 

Can anyone comment on doing this? Should I wait till latter?

 

Thanks

 

Pumpytums