I am being Sued over a Bill of Sale

[OBWanBenoni]

Today I received a County Court Claim Form. I am being sued as I unknowingly bought a vehicle which had a Bill of Sale on it. I did do a post about this when I first became aware of it.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/log-book-loans-bills/261297-mobile-money-mayhem.html

 

I am a bit upset - obviously. The new owner is sueing me as they say I did not have title to the vehicle as there was a Bill of Sale on it. I had no knowledge of this at all. I even did a vehicle check. She stupidly paid Mobile Money.

 

Attached is the BoS that I have been sent. It is only part of the BoS - what reference do I quote to get the whole of the BoS from the Supreme Court.

 

The BoS was also put on a vehicle that was 10 years old - I have read on the forum that it can only be attached to vehicles not over 8 years - is this right and do you know where I can find a reference to this.

 

I had taken legal advice and I was told that she did not have a case against me - her solictors see to think that she has.

 

I have just spoken to the person I bought the lorry off and he claims that he paid the loan off fully.

 

Please could the BoS experts look at mine and tell if it looks dodgy or not , also apart from the obvious get a solictor - what would you do next?

 

What are my chances of winning my case and not having to pay this lady £2,500?

 

Thanks for any help

MK BOS.pdf

[cctv engineer]

Today I received a County Court Claim Form. I am being sued as I unknowingly bought a vehicle which had a Bill of Sale on it. I did do a post about this when I first became aware of it.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/log-book-loans-bills/261297-mobile-money-mayhem.html

 

I am a bit upset - obviously. The new owner is sueing me as they say I did not have title to the vehicle as there was a Bill of Sale on it. I had no knowledge of this at all. I even did a vehicle check. She stupidly paid Mobile Money.

 

Attached is the BoS that I have been sent. It is only part of the BoS - what reference do I quote to get the whole of the BoS from the Supreme Court.

 

The BoS was also put on a vehicle that was 10 years old - I have read on the forum that it can only be attached to vehicles not over 8 years - is this right and do you know where I can find a reference to this.

 

I had taken legal advice and I was told that she did not have a case against me - her solictors see to think that she has.

 

I have just spoken to the person I bought the lorry off and he claims that he paid the loan off fully.

 

Please could the BoS experts look at mine and tell if it looks dodgy or not , also apart from the obvious get a solictor - what would you do next?

 

What are my chances of winning my case and not having to pay this lady £2,500?

 

Thanks for any help

 

 

well that bill of sale is usless and why she paid mm £2.500 when the total loan was only £1.600. bill of sale has no stamp plus no solicitors name on it. plus by the time you do get a copy (if it exists) of the bill of sale it is dead on 15th september 2010. (bos only has a 5 year life)

 

but the main question is did she do a HPI check..... if you have the guys details you bought it from them pass them onto her .... it was his loan she paid off.

[OBWanBenoni]

She didn't do an HPI check on it, I have passed all the guys details on to her and her solictors say that she has no desire to sue him, only me. He is even a part time trader - but no she is sueing me.

 

Thank you for replying - I hoped you would

[cctv engineer]

She didn't do an HPI check on it, I have passed all the guys details on to her and her solictors say that she has no desire to sue him, only me. He is even a part time trader - but no she is sueing me.

 

Thank you for replying - I hoped you would

 

 

Hi. just call her solicitor and ask him who dept did she pay off ....... and does he need to be a rocket scientist to work it out.

 

 

plus looking at your bos it only has 6 payments .... thats six months what happend to the 4.5 years of no payments

[OBWanBenoni]

Hi. just call her solicitor and ask him who dept did she pay off ....... and does he need to be a rocket scientist to work it out.

 

 

plus looking at your bos it only has 6 payments .... thats six months what happend to the 4.5 years of no payments

 

I dont understand the first bit, I'm not a Rocket Scientist:lol:

 

I dont get why it has taken them 4.5 years to come after the money

[cctv engineer]

I dont understand the first bit, I'm not a Rocket Scientist:lol:

 

I dont get why it has taken them 4.5 years to come after the money

 

 

Hi OBW the loan was only for 6 months. start sept 2005 and should have ended march 2006............. it has taken them 4 years to chase the car.

[OBWanBenoni]

I spoke to the guy tonight who sold me the vehicle and took the loan out and he claims he paid it off - but he could be lying

[ST220]

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[postggj]

let us know if you need help doing the defence to the claim

 

we have 14 days to acknowledge, so plenty of time

[OBWanBenoni]

let us know if you need help doing the defence to the claim

 

we have 14 days to acknowledge, so plenty of time

 

Thank you for your offer

 

I am going to put in an acknowledgement of service as I am away all next week so I can't put a defence in within 14 days.

 

I am struggling to find a solictor that understands BoS or log book loans. The one I spoke to just told me it was complicated. Really!

 

He did say though that I needed to submit an A23 to get the guy who I bought the vehicle of name into the claim. Does that make any sense?

 

The person I bought the vehicle of is a dealer, is still advertising themselve as a Dealer - does that make my case any easier as he was trade - although the vehicle may have been a personal one?

 

I am still trying to find something to support the fact that you can't put a Bos on a vehicle over 8 years old - this vehicle was 10 at the time - does anyone have any links to support the 8 year rule?

 

Thanks

[cctv engineer]

Thank you for your offer

 

I am going to put in an acknowledgement of service as I am away all next week so I can't put a defence in within 14 days.

 

I am struggling to find a solictor that understands BoS or log book loans. The one I spoke to just told me it was complicated. Really!

 

He did say though that I needed to submit an A23 to get the guy who I bought the vehicle of name into the claim. Does that make any sense?

 

The person I bought the vehicle of is a dealer, is still advertising themselve as a Dealer - does that make my case any easier as he was trade - although the vehicle may have been a personal one?

 

I am still trying to find something to support the fact that you can't put a Bos on a vehicle over 8 years old - this vehicle was 10 at the time - does anyone have any links to support the 8 year rule?

 

Thanks

 

 

Hi. two things. your bos is not valid. ask mobile money for a copy of the supreme courts bos. and as far as you have bought from a dealer also puts the bos out of the window. but i will tell you that the bill of sale you have posted is not a true bos

[trooper68]

Thank you for your offer

 

I am going to put in an acknowledgement of service as I am away all next week so I can't put a defence in within 14 days.

 

I am struggling to find a solictor that understands BoS or log book loans. The one I spoke to just told me it was complicated. Really!

 

He did say though that I needed to submit an A23 to get the guy who I bought the vehicle of name into the claim. Does that make any sense?

 

The person I bought the vehicle of is a dealer, is still advertising themselve as a Dealer - does that make my case any easier as he was trade - although the vehicle may have been a personal one?

 

I am still trying to find something to support the fact that you can't put a Bos on a vehicle over 8 years old - this vehicle was 10 at the time - does anyone have any links to support the 8 year rule?

 

Thanks

 

 

OBW you said that you did a HPI check and that nothing was showing on the car, correct?, do still have a copy?

Do have any the paperwork from the dealer? or did he sell it off the forecourt on the road (usally done by dealers on dodgy cars and any comebacks, state sold as seen, private sale)

 

You like the new owner, are victims, so you have done nothing wrong, you can defend this quite easy, you just need to provide the court with the paperwork (copys)-Just think of one thing at a time.

 

Read this

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1878/cukpga_18780031_en_1

 

and here

Results within Legislation - Statute Law Database

 

 

Thats the basis of the law set out, you will notice it refers to crops and farm equipment...yeah BS-but this is the way LBL play...

 

If you are going away, you will need to inform the court with proof, i.e flight, booking copy..do this today, the courts are busy and you may find that court may go ahead while you paperwork is a processed.

 

Also get the case heard local to you, you have that right...better to play on your own turf..

 

You will need to start getting your defence together, i you have a question ask...

 

trooper68

[trooper68]

Hi Buddy

 

Ok, so you are being taken to court, yes?- from a person you sold the lorry to, now MM have apeard and said its thiers...

Reading from the your posts, can you get a statement from the guy you purchased it from?

You also have a HPI check, have you done another check? You could also ask in the court statement was there a check done by the new owner?

 

Its seems to me that they are cluching at straws on this. When is the court case set and how far have you got with it?

It is also clear the SOL is trying to get you by default on procedure issues.

 

trooper68

[OBWanBenoni]

So another letter from the claimants solictors unless I agree to pay her the money they are going to add Mobile Money as a Second Defendant - and that is going to cost me a lot of money - I don't see how.

 

They have also now sent another Bill of Sale to me, this time dated 15th November 2005 for £3,500. The last one was dated 15th September 2005 for £1,000. Does the 2nd BoS cancel out the first BoS? they haven't sent a copy of the the CCA that goes with it.

 

 

They have also sent a copy of the Supreme Court Date stamp - it is dated 23rd November 2005 - that is 8 days after the agreement was made - and that day was a wednesday, so they can't use the weekend excuse for being late - so it is too late?

[OBWanBenoni]

This is what I am plannign to write on my allocation questionaire - does it sound OK - should I change anything? They are trying to use CPR r3.4 to get my defence thrown out - so thought I might as well do it back. Should I write something about how the woman should never have paid MM?

 

The Defendant respectfully requests the court use its case amagement powers in CPR r3.4 (2)(a) to strike out the statement of claim as it discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim. The defendant did have legal title to the horsebox as the Bill of Sale was void, therefore legal title never passed to Mobile Money and Mobile Money could not use the horsebox as security for the loan. The Bills of Sale Act (1878) Amendment Act 1882 (8) states Every bill of sale shall be duly attested, and shall be registered under the principal Act within seven clear days after the execution thereof, or if it is executed in any place out of England then within seven clear days after the time at which it would in the ordinary course of post arrive in England if posted immediately after the execution thereof; and shall truly set forth the consideration for which it was given; otherwise such bill of sale shall be void in respect of the personal chattels comprised therein.

Attached is a copy of the Bill of Sale as supplied by the claimant with the Supreme Court Date Stamp. The Bill of Sale was not registered within seven days and is therefore void.

Thanks

[cctv engineer]

This is what I am plannign to write on my allocation questionaire - does it sound OK - should I change anything? They are trying to use CPR r3.4 to get my defence thrown out - so thought I might as well do it back. Should I write something about how the woman should never have paid MM?

 

The Defendant respectfully requests the court use its case amagement powers in CPR r3.4 (2)(a) to strike out the statement of claim as it discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim. The defendant did have legal title to the horsebox as the Bill of Sale was void, therefore legal title never passed to Mobile Money and Mobile Money could not use the horsebox as security for the loan. The Bills of Sale Act (1878) Amendment Act 1882 (8) states Every bill of sale shall be duly attested, and shall be registered under the principal Act within seven clear days after the execution thereof, or if it is executed in any place out of England then within seven clear days after the time at which it would in the ordinary course of post arrive in England if posted immediately after the execution thereof; and shall truly set forth the consideration for which it was given; otherwise such bill of sale shall be void in respect of the personal chattels comprised therein.

Attached is a copy of the Bill of Sale as supplied by the claimant with the Supreme Court Date Stamp. The Bill of Sale was not registered within seven days and is therefore void.

Thanks

 

 

OBWanBenoni you are going to make things very difficult if you try to fight this though the bill of sale. the bill of sale has nothing to do with your problem. what you are trying todo the owner should be doing as she paid mm.

 

all you have to do is a full HPI. you are best off doing this with DVLA as it starts from first owner and has full history right up to now. and if it shows that it was interest free when you bought and sold then thats all you need.

 

the solicitor is going after you for selling a horse box knowing it had finance on at the time of sale. NOTHING to do with a bill of sale.

[OBWanBenoni]

Her solictors just keep going on and on about the bill of sale and how I did not have legal title to the vehicle. They say that it is irrelevant that i bought the vehicle in good faith - has nothing to do with it.

Will a DVLA HPI check show the full hpi history - it won't just say that there is no finance on the vehicle atm? I've done a AA check and it just says there is no interest

[cctv engineer]

Her solictors just keep going on and on about the bill of sale and how I did not have legal title to the vehicle. They say that it is irrelevant that i bought the vehicle in good faith - has nothing to do with it.

Will a DVLA HPI check show the full hpi history - it won't just say that there is no finance on the vehicle atm? I've done a AA check and it just says there is no interest

 

 

Her solicitor is just being a solicitor. just send him back a letter.

 

at the time of you owning the vehicle it was HPI clear and no interest was on the vehicle at any time you was the owner. and state you have the report. so you had clear right to buy and sell.

and that his client should look to mm for her money.

 

also ask for his clients copy of her HPI. as she should have protected herself just as you did.

 

 

yes DVLA will give you a full HPI owners/mots/milage/ and post codes or everyone who has done a HPI on that vehicle with results.

[OBWanBenoni]

I've been on the DVLA website and I can't find the link for this check - it just says to use HPI or Experian and all i get from them is that there is no outstanding finance on it

 

I think the side effect of this stress is that I am going blind

[cctv engineer]

I've been on the DVLA website and I can't find the link for this check - it just says to use HPI or Experian and all i get from them is that there is no outstanding finance on it

 

I think the side effect of this stress is that I am going blind

 

 

https://www.hpicheck.com/consumer/HPISample.do

[OBWanBenoni]

https://www.hpicheck.com/consumer/HPISample.do

 

I ve got one of those and all it says is that

 

Outstanding finance

VRM and VIN not currently recorded as having outstanding finance

 

does that mean that it has never had an HPI marker on it?

[cctv engineer]

I ve got one of those and all it says is that

 

Outstanding finance

VRM and VIN not currently recorded as having outstanding finance

 

does that mean that it has never had an HPI marker on it?

 

 

yes it means no interest. now send a letter to her solicitor asking what HPI he has saying there is interest and date it was added. and that you are looking forward to going to court it is between the owner and MM (which by the way is owned by logbook loans ltd)

[Surfer01]

ObwanBenoni I find your username interesting as there is a town called Benoni is South Africa where I lived for awhuile. Apologies for the temporary hijack.

[OBWanBenoni]

Last week I went up to London and visited the Supreme Court to get the proper copy of the Bill of Sale that I am being sued over. Did I get a surprise. It turns out that the person I bought the vehicle of had 10 BOS registered to that address.

 

Today the copies arrived in the post. Out of his 10 BOS 7 were placed on the vehicle I bought. 3 were issued before I bought the vehicle and 4 after he sold it to me. I bought the vehicle in 2005 and he was still having BOS put on the vehicle in 2008, I sold the vehicle on in 2007. There may be more BOS out there but his girlfriend kicked him out of their house in 2008 and I didn't do a search on his new address.

 

The BOS do not run concurrently, there are breaks in the loans, therefor ownership would have passed back to the guy who alledgley owned the car. They are all for small amounts.

 

I thought Mobile Money had to physically see the vehicle and have a copy of the MOT/insurance etc to put a BOS on a vehicle. Which they definatley did not do as the vehicle was first of all at my house, and then at the woman I sold it to house.

 

I now need to add this new evidence to my defence as obviously Mobile Money have totally defrauded this woman into paying them and I am not liable for a loan they gave on a vehicle that the guy no longer owned. Her solicitors were obviously just hoping that I was too stupid to do any research and would pay her the money.

[cctv engineer]

Last week I went up to London and visited the Supreme Court to get the proper copy of the Bill of Sale that I am being sued over. Did I get a surprise. It turns out that the person I bought the vehicle of had 10 BOS registered to that address.

 

Today the copies arrived in the post. Out of his 10 BOS 7 were placed on the vehicle I bought. 3 were issued before I bought the vehicle and 4 after he sold it to me. I bought the vehicle in 2005 and he was still having BOS put on the vehicle in 2008, I sold the vehicle on in 2007. There may be more BOS out there but his girlfriend kicked him out of their house in 2008 and I didn't do a search on his new address.

 

The BOS do not run concurrently, there are breaks in the loans, therefor ownership would have passed back to the guy who alledgley owned the car. They are all for small amounts.

 

I thought Mobile Money had to physically see the vehicle and have a copy of the MOT/insurance etc to put a BOS on a vehicle. Which they definatley did not do as the vehicle was first of all at my house, and then at the woman I sold it to house.

 

I now need to add this new evidence to my defence as obviously Mobile Money have totally defrauded this woman into paying them and I am not liable for a loan they gave on a vehicle that the guy no longer owned. Her solicitors were obviously just hoping that I was too stupid to do any research and would pay her the money.

 

 

Hi. oBWanbenoni. yes they do need to see the car MM is logbook loans and they take a photo of the owner with the car. ask them for a copy of each photo. ......