Energy Retail Association and billing code.

[pelham9]

Requiring an uo to date copy of the billing code I have tried through google to get to the ERA website No joy.

 

Some of the utilities give links to the ERA website under 'billing code' but these do not work either.

 

Anybody elucidate? It may be temporary but......

[nottslad]

hi pelham

 

energy-retail.org.uk

http://energy-retail.org.uk/documents/BackBillingDocumentforConsumerFocus090510-Websitecopy.pdf

[pelham9]

Thanks Nottslad

 

I have managed to get to the ERA website today - presumably there waa a temporary down on the site.

 

 

I have looked at the link. Way back in 2007 when the billing code was introduced there was a complicted document which fully characterised the code. I have lost my copy of that document due to a computer crash and I wanted an up to date replacement and I cannot find one.

 

The link you refer to and anything I have seen elsewhere are really only 'guidance notes ' for the utilities and their customers i.e. they are an interpretation of what ERA considers the definitve billing code implies (or they would like it to imply).

 

In particular there is great emphasis on the responsibilities and obligations of customers particularly in keeping the utility informed and in reading meters. As I recall none of this was in the original document (which should rightly form part of deemed contracts & Ts & Cs). One would naturally expect a body, which is set up by the utilities, would be likely to change the interpretation of the billing code to suite their masters.

 

The OFT guidance on the CCA has been shown by CAG to be in error on a number of points amd OFT has had to change them. I cannot see that we can accept ERA's interpretation of the code to be correct if the original document +/- any valid changes is not availabe.

 

Do you know anyway it can be obtained? Absence of it suggests to me that the utiities are trying to get changes by stealth.

 

Do not get me wrong on this. I do think that customers who do not inform utilities of their occupation and do not read meters are acting foolishly and will get into difficulties. However the utilities who have many options open to them not the least of which to have proper systems in place for early diagnosis of problems, have not taken the lead in this matter through advertising etc. Time and time again we find on these boards that people have not informed the utility of occupation and many say that they must be crooks or plain stupid. Many posters here have not done so and these people are clearrly not crooks nor stupid. They are just ignorant of the sensible thing to do and think that the all powerful utilities are in control.

 

Utilities do not do not publish the billing code and in general appear to wriggle out of it at every turn. As you know on three occasions in my family we were quite unable to find out which utility was supplying so could inform no-one. Nevertheless all three utilities denied that the billing code applied in the first instance after they failed to bill for 2-3 years. How on earth could that happen?

[Jason Arthurs]

Utilities do not do not publish the billing code and in general appear to wriggle out of it at every turn. As you know on three occasions in my family we were quite unable to find out which utility was supplying so could inform no-one. Nevertheless all three utilities denied that the billing code applied in the first instance after they failed to bill for 2-3 years. How on earth could that happen?

 

I'd be interested to see what responses you get from your supplier. I've recently challenged EDF Energy under the billing code. They're trying to bill for unbilled electricity over a period of 4 years and 8 months, during which despite sending readers around and me submitting my own customer readings they did not base a single bill on an *actual* reading.

 

Now they're saying the billing code doesn't apply because apparently they state they have asked me for readings that I didn't supply them with. They're berating me for not sending readings, that their system would have immediately discarded anyway?!

 

I had my doubts about the Billing Code, as it's a industry generated enterprise I suspect they'll have no ability to make the supplier comply.

 

Regards,

Jason.

[pelham9]

The interpretation of the Billing Code that you can now find on the ERA website says that only if the utility is in error will the Billing Code apply. That is a correct interpretation but their definition of an error now makes the Billing Code ineffective in 95%+ of cases thus

 

The utility is not in error if

 

1) the customer has not informed the utility of his occupancy.

 

2) the customer has not informed the utility that they are not billing him. (wow!)

 

3) the customer has been asked for meter readings and has not given them.

 

Can anybody think of ANY situation where the code might apply.

 

The Billing Code is now 95% ineffective because the 'billing code' on the ERA website is not the Billing Code at all but an interpretation that suits the utilities. The utilities have always been the judge of whether the Billing Code applies and now the utilitiy's ERA has published a 'billing code' which the utilities will quote in all their judgements.

 

My veiw is that it is the responsibility of a utility to bill its custtomers and if they do not do so they are in error.

The must not be allowed to blame their inefficiencies on their customers.

 

Leaving the newbuild situation aside there is absolutely no excuse for not billing for one whole year - a total of 4 bills. They have the meter number, the MPRN number and the postal address. If they do not send any bill to anyone that must be their error. If they do not get paid on that meter for one whole year having sent bills to the wrong person or the wrong address , how can it be the customers error that they do not investigate? What are their computer systems doing? Bill sent -no payment - either a non payer or billed in error- their problem and they are at fault if the problem persists for longer than one bill let alone 4.

[verycatchy7939]

its tough to get late billed applied.Usually they cop out by saying that D10 flows ( routine meter reads) have been no access to meter. I just think the utlities are in a unique situation, there recording device in is your home so it kinda shared responsiblity to provide correct reads to give an accurate bill.

No bills for year i can see that happening as the network is victorian and the system that updates it is stuck in 80's. Dont think it the big power compinies so much to blame as the people who own the network and the data collctors and MOPs , eg e-on and United Utilities .From esperince in the industry it really hard to take on MOP as they have a weaker regular than the utilities , in fact in nealy a no code arrangement.

May be looking at teh mops and dc we will fix the utlities

[pelham9]

Usually they cop out by saying that D10 flows ( routine meter reads) have been no access to meter.

 

Not being able to get into a property to read meters is no excuse for not sending a bill - estimated readings suffice.

 

No bills for year i can see that happening as the network is victorian and the system that updates it is stuck in 80's.

 

Their computer systems are c**p. Is it the customers error that this is so? The record for no bills on this forum is 10 years !

[verycatchy7939]

sorry but D10s flows are a reason for producing estimated bills. It says with in the the flow if the MOP or DC could get access to your property. the onus is on you to prove that you provided access or phone the energy copany with a read.

Estiamated bills are acceptable if the engergy company cant get access to the meter/

[nottslad]

um... sorry to be pedantic, but a D10 flow contains a meter read, whether it be deemed or actual.

 

A D4 flow is received when the Data Collector has been unable to obtain a meter read and gives the reason why i.e. No Access, Refused Access etc and any relevant site information such as "demolished" or "boarded up"

 

Verycatchy - quite often DC and MOP operations are carried out by another division of the same company as the supplier, the lack of communication between them is inexcusable, and it doesn't have to rely on computer systems - quite simply a telephone call is all that is needed. Before I left EON I know that the EON DC were given access to the computer system used for billing etc, this meant that they could access customer accounts and try and make contact where necessary in respoect of validating meter reads, which is obviously a more efficient way of working, and further improvements on industry practices will result in cleaner processes.

 

The introduction of smart metering will hopefully reduce the errors in incorrect billing, and will limit the number of excuses that suppliers can give when looking in to the Billing Code compliance.

 

The Code is a voluntary code of practice that was agreed by the utility suppliers and some other outside agencies, however it is important to remember that as yet it does not form part of regulation and it is not prescribed in any legislation... perhaps the next review of the Utilities Act will prove fruitful.

[pelham9]

Estiamated bills are acceptable if the engergy company cant get access to the meter

.

 

Precisely. So you agree that not getting a meter read from the property either by a meter reader or tthe customer is not a reason for sending no bill at all. No bills at all is what the billing code is about

[pelham9]

The Code is a voluntary code of practice that was agreed by the utility suppliers and some other outside agencies, however it is important to remember that as yet it does not form part of regulation and it is not prescribed in any legislation. perhaps the next review of the Utilities Act will prove fruitful

 

So very true- but do not make the mistake that the utilities instituted the voluntary code of practice because they are benevolent organisations. They did it voluntarily rather than have it imposed by the Regulator who was very much one of the 'outside agencies'.

 

Before the code was introduced tthe Regulator was inundated by complaints from utility customers that they were being put into financial difficulties by huge bills - to correct errors made by suppliers - and being subjected to draconian collection methods. It was clear to the Regulator that the errors were caused by poor billing systems and that the utilities needed to spend money to improve matters. The major suppliers went away and produced the billing code. The penalty in this code for not improving the billing systems was high - forfeiture of all charges except for the last two years (now one year) when the utility was in error and the regulator must have felt that there was plenty of incentive for the utilities to put things right. At the time the regulator hade a 'light touch' approach - do not regulate if the utilities could be persuaded to regulate themselves.* So he accepted that this matter did not need to go into the regulations.

 

The result of this is that there has been very little effort to improve billing systems and this has cost the utilities dearly. So they are attempting by a new interpretation of the term 'error' in the code to blame ther customers for their errors and thus avoid the code in 95+% of cases.

 

* Light touch regulation does not work. Look at the effect of light touch regulation of the banks by the FSA and light touch regulation of DCAs by the OFT. Self regulation of hard headed businessmen is a fallacy.