Mercedes Benz reposession

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

If they refuse to comply with a SAR or Freedom of Information request you can complain to the Information Commissioner who can employ their enforcement powers for compliance.

 

However, a CPR request is irrefutable

[cyril1982]

I have just taken legal advice yesterday in relation to documents obtained under my own SAR as i was worried close motor finance (the company i'm in dispute with) were witholding documents.

 

my legal advisor told me that they would have to disclose any information they wished to present to a court anyway as would i so i don't see what they want to achieve.

 

i have never heard of this type of refusal to comply with a SAR before as what it appears to amount to is them saying "we believe that you will use the information against us for the purpose of litigation so we are not giving it to you"

 

i'd start by telephoning the information commisioners office and asking if they can do this, if the I.C. say no then use the pre litigation letter template from this site (see my thread it's on there) which basically says comply with my SAR or i will seek a court injuction ordering you to do so.

 

i had to do this to get to close to comply but they did comply in the end.

[dave1509]

Will try the CPR

 

Can you point me in the right direction for that please?

 

Ta

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Dear Sirs

 

Account number

 

I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.

I wish to draw your attention to Civil Procedure Rule 31.16 as quoted below:

"Disclosure before proceedings start

31.16

 

(1) This rule applies where an application is made to the court under any Act for disclosure before proceedings have started1.

 

(2) The application must be supported by evidence.

 

(3) The court may make an order under this rule only where –

(a) the respondent is likely to be a party to subsequent proceedings;

 

(b) the applicant is also likely to be a party to those proceedings;

 

© if proceedings had started, the respondent’s duty by way of standard disclosure, set out in rule 31.6, would extend to the documents or classes of documents of which the applicant seeks disclosure; and

 

(d) disclosure before proceedings have started is desirable in order to –

(i) dispose fairly of the anticipated proceedings;

 

(ii) assist the dispute to be resolved without proceedings; or

 

(iii) save costs.

 

(4) An order under this rule must –

(a) specify the documents or the classes of documents which the respondent must disclose; and

 

(b) require him, when making disclosure, to specify any of those documents –

(i) which are no longer in his control; or

 

(ii) in respect of which he claims a right or duty to withhold inspection.

 

(5) Such an order may –

(a) require the respondent to indicate what has happened to any documents which are no longer in his control; and

 

(b) specify the time and place for disclosure and inspection."

 

 

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. Additionally I require all statements relating to the account, all notices of default and termination and all documentation and uplift instructions relating to the repossession of my vehicle.

I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 or a Subject Access Request or a Freedom of Information Request, but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16). An unsigned copy of the agreement will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances.

 

Please confirm if you still hold all the documents as requested or, alternatively, what has happened to to any of the documents no longer in your control.

 

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the documents which I have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides.

 

I look forward to your reply and would ask for a response by 4pm on XXXX Date ( Give 21 days to respond), should this not be forthcoming I will be left with no alternative but to request an order for compliance from the court.

 

 

Regards

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Amend to suit

[dave1509]

Thanks Wannabe

 

Will let you know what I get back

x

[Missy81]

I had my car repossessed last year. What a farce! It was a contract hire agreement, not hire purchase so a bit different. My husband lost his job and I was on maternity leave. We defaulted only 2 months (£1000 though!) They first tried to take the car and I had just given birth, then we moved and they took the car at new address even though the day before it was repo'd I paid £800 off arrears. I asked to keep the car and pay off arrears and monthly instalments! (as my Dad would help me pay). They said it's too late and took the car.

 

I then got their solicitors asking for £12000, as they had sold the car and there was a shortfall. It went through court etc and they had debt agency around at my house doing expense forms etc. I said I earn £100 a week have 2 children and can only afford to pay £10 a week - which the company REJECTED. Debt management agency came around again a few months later and I said my situation has got worse I can only pay £1 a week - which the company ACCEPTED! LOL so I pay £4 a month to the fleecing b*****ds. It's almsot been 6 months and they will 'review' it I am currently wondering whether to say my situation has got a whole lot worse and offer 50p a week.

Even though I have a CCJ now I don't mind as long as the robbing ghets don't get any more money off me If they had agreed with my payment plan at the beginning I would have paid everything off by now, I just needed a surety of time which they were having none of! so now they will get zilch from me. haha

[Calb0b]

I had my car repossessed last year. What a farce! It was a contract hire agreement, not hire purchase so a bit different. My husband lost his job and I was on maternity leave. We defaulted only 2 months (£1000 though!) They first tried to take the car and I had just given birth, then we moved and they took the car at new address even though the day before it was repo'd I paid £800 off arrears. I asked to keep the car and pay off arrears and monthly instalments! (as my Dad would help me pay). They said it's too late and took the car.

 

I then got their solicitors asking for £12000, as they had sold the car and there was a shortfall. It went through court etc and they had debt agency around at my house doing expense forms etc. I said I earn £100 a week have 2 children and can only afford to pay £10 a week - which the company REJECTED. Debt management agency came around again a few months later and I said my situation has got worse I can only pay £1 a week - which the company ACCEPTED! LOL so I pay £4 a month to the fleecing b*****ds. It's almsot been 6 months and they will 'review' it I am currently wondering whether to say my situation has got a whole lot worse and offer 50p a week.

Even though I have a CCJ now I don't mind as long as the robbing ghets don't get any more money off me If they had agreed with my payment plan at the beginning I would have paid everything off by now, I just needed a surety of time which they were having none of! so now they will get zilch from me. haha

 

Hi Missy81

 

Have a look at this! http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/258093-lets-start-fighting-back.html

 

I'm NOT condoning it, but food for thought

[emandcole]

Would be very cautious using 31.16. Has it gone off yet?

[emandcole]

Would be very cautious using 31.16. Has it gone off yet?

 

Ignore that, late night and got threads confused

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Ignore that, late night and got threads confused

OMG! You had me up all night worrying that I'd said the wrong thing!! I'm gone sue you for damages and distress lol!

[emandcole]

OMG! You had me up all night worrying that I'd said the wrong thing!! I'm gone sue you for damages and distress lol!

 

I can recommend Optima to you if you like!

 

Be interesting to see what they come back with anyway eh?

[dave1509]

Hello All

 

Ive had a reply back from the solicitors acting on behalf of MB Finance

 

After refusing to send any infrmation, they now have sent (thanks to the 31:16 - Cheers gang)

 

They have enclosed

 

Copy of the agreement

Statement of accont

Copy of defalt notice

Copy of termination notice

 

They say they canot provide me with details of manual intervention

 

They also passed my details onto 3 third parties

 

They have not provided me with;

details of the court order for reposession (I was not shown anything when the car was reposessed if you remembr - the car was just taken in the early hours of the morning - I paid less than a third so not sure if they need one?)

Bill of sale or anything relating to the sale of the car once they reposessed it

Contract or anything relating to the appointment of the collections agent etc

 

I asked for this in the original but not from the 31:16

 

They are now saying I owe 29k an I need to get back to them in 14 days or they will issue proceedings etc

 

So I'm thinking I write to ack them for details of the above - especially the court order for reposession - one was not produced etc

 

Any other ideas?

Edited August 22, 2010 by dave1509

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Excellent! Fabulous result

The most important thing in your case is to know if the agreement was regulated or not, it should say at the top of your agreement or Default notice.

[dave1509]

Hi Wannabe

 

It says non regulated - HP agreement

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Hi Wannabe

 

It says non regulated - HP agreement

That's not great but unfortunately it is what was expected

With an unregulated agreement you do not get the protection from the Consumer Credit Act. I'm not familiar with unregulated agreements but I still believe you should try to obtain details of the repossession because it still may be possible to argue tort of trespass. I think the the best thing for you to do is have a read of the threads of people that are in a similar situation as yourself, it might be helpful to understand what others are doing.

 

I'm sorry I can't be of more help

[Surfer01]

on a number of posts on this thread people have mentioned using the Freedom of Information Act to obtain information from a non-governmental entity. I thought this Act could only be used for government departments and not private companies or even council offices for that matter. Please advise. Thansk.

[dave1509]

That's not great but unfortunately it is what was expected

With an unregulated agreement you do not get the protection from the Consumer Credit Act. I'm not familiar with unregulated agreements but I still believe you should try to obtain details of the repossession because it still may be possible to argue tort of trespass. I think the the best thing for you to do is have a read of the threads of people that are in a similar situation as yourself, it might be helpful to understand what others are doing.

 

I'm sorry I can't be of more help

 

Thats Ok wannabe

 

The position is that there could be some illegalaty in the way the car was reposessed - Do you think if I can prove this I may stand a chance of having the 'debt' cleared?

 

ie - Car bought for 44k

 

I paid 2k deposit

paid 5.5k in payments

They sold for 17.5k

 

total recouped for MB finance is 25k

 

They are chasing for the full 44 + what I would have paid in interest etc plus costs which is where they come up with the 29k I still owe

 

I guess if the retail price was 44 plus 3k costs, that should bring the net total down to 22?

 

I still cant afford to pay that though

 

If I find that the recovery was unlawful, will that stand me in any stead for negotiating a reduction?

 

Any ideas?

[FightToTheEnd]

Do they not need to justify why a car with a retail value of £44K was sold for just £17.5K less than one year later? I know main dealers make huge markups but that is rediculous. Would it be perhaps possible to shpow trade/auction value of your car at the time of sale? Have you seen a sales invoice or auction sheet for the £17.5K and was it sold to a "related" company?

[Surfer01]

The agreement was PCP with a balloon payment at the end. What was the balloon payment? Your finance agreement would have been for the cost of the vehicle less the £1000 deposit and the balloon payment so may be it would be a regulated agreement under the CCA. If they sold it for less than the ballon value you mau have a very valid argument as they are supposed to seell the vehicle in the best interests of the debtor an not theirs. probably sold on an auction floor to a mate that is if it went to auction for this they need court papers. Removing it off a friends drive may have some serious implicatiosn for the offending party.

[FightToTheEnd]

The "5K limit was based on the "total amount borrowed" which in this case would be £42K - outside the CCA limits if taken out before 2007.

[dave1509]

Hi Surfer

 

The agreement I signed says Non-Regulated at the top

 

The monthlys were 724 (over 36 months) = 26,064 (then there was the interest which was apox 5.5k)

 

The car was sold for approx 17.5k

 

I could do with some help in writing to the solicitors - can someone PM me and help with the letter asking for details of bill of sale, court order etc

 

Can someone help please?

 

Ta

Edited August 23, 2010 by dave1509

[dave1509]

Hi everyone

 

Any ideas on where I go now?

 

I was going to write to the solisitors and ask for documentation relating to court orders/bill of sale for the auction/valuation report etc

 

Any further help on what to do?

 

Thanks

[dave1509]

Hello everyone

 

I wrote to the solicitors about more documentation and asked the following:

 

I write with regards to the above and your letter dated 18th August 2010

In addition to the documentation that was supplied by your client I also wish to obtain copies of the following;

· Contract between your client and the appointed recovery agent (Eurodebt Recovery)

· Details that Eurodebt recovery hold on me including instructions to recover the vehicle

· True and original copies of the court order obtained to recover the vehicle or pre-possession order allowing Eurodebt recovery to repossess the vehicle

· Vehicle report completed on the vehicle once it had been collected

· Details of the bill of sale and instructions to the auction house that sold the vehicle

· Details of Eurodebt Recoveries documented recovery procedures

· Any other documentation relating to the appointment of and instruction to any recovery agents

· Any other documentation relating to the state and contents of the vehicle

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the documents which I have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides.

I look forward to your reply.

 

 

Regards

 

TODAY, they replied;

 

We refer to the above matter and your letter dated 20th August requesting further documentation in relation to the recovery and sale of the vehicle

 

We do not consider that they requested documents are relevant to this matter and, accordingly, will not be providing you with copies

 

The sum owed is £29,874.32 and we look forward to receiving your proposals for repayment of the same within 7 days of the date of this letter failing which we are instructed to issue proceedings against you without furter notice. Any claim made by our client will include a claim for costs, fees and interest. etc etc etc

 

Given that they will or cannot supply this information - where do I go now?

 

PLEASE PLEASE HELP

[emandcole]

Hi, been a while so a touch rusty but...assuming the agreement and figures, APR etc all adds up and there are no avenues to attack there how was the actual repo process conducted? If they removed the car contrary to legislation that I feel would be a huge issue for them to have to deal with. Quick reminder for us all - if I remember rightly you'd paid more than a third of the debt and they did the repo from the private driveway of a friends house? So, the court order I believe they would need to have even removed the vehicle (location aside for now) - have they refused to provide this? Wondering if the court that approved the repo could provide you with a copy of the order? Any idea what court this was supposedly approved by?

 

I can't see how the claimant can persist to refuse with the provision of the very order that undermines their alleged right to have recovered the vehicle.

 

Do the accounts add up? Charges etc? - were any charges applied in line with the T&C's? Irrespective of the lack of CCA protection issues like this are simple matters of contractual privilege so any irregularities here?

 

Can you re-cap for us all where you are, what you've submitted, dates to comply by, AQ's been and gone yet etc...

 

If your defence is in for example and they are not providing docs such as the order for the repo then dependent on the court stage you can use CPR to force them to behave. Quick re-cap and update would be great.