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lord_tiger_putin

Help Please on a complex hire purchase

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It is a complex hire purchase agreement. The original agreement was with Capital Bank and it has been handled later on by Bank of Scotland (Capital Bank was part of them). All went well and OK until I got involved with an utter rubbish debt recovering company.

 

Bank of Scotland defaulted me and asked the total outstanding amount (about £2700.00), which was due anyway because the agreement time was close to its end with the balloon payment at the end of it. I paid about £7000 on a £9000.00 hired purchase.

 

Soon after wise the account went to Black Horse (part of Lloyds TSB). I did receive the agreement after a CCA request. The t&c’s is very unclear (it is a photo copy and I do have the original which is also not too clear, signed it at a car dealer). Black Horse changed the agreement number.

 

I READ SOMEWHERE THAT CHANGING THE AGREEMENT NUMBER CAN CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR CREDITORS BECAUSE I DIDN’T AGREE TO IT.

 

I have now received a DN from Black Horse as well. It seems to be valid but I will post it later after I scanned it. This can cause problems for us if the DN and the agreement are fine because we expect some money in the near future and want to take out a mortgage. I can deal with the invalid DN’s on the credit file but a valid one can be problematic. There is no trace of Bank of Scotland on my credit file, only Black Horse, so I believe the previous DN will have no impact.

 

The DN came today but I did mail an Insurance claim (PPI) to them yesterday for around £1900.00. There is also about £380.00 theft charges on the account. I do not want to loose the car but I think there is a lot of leg work necessary before that can happen seeing the PPI and charges claim, which, if successful, would left little to pay left.

 

How can I deal with the DN?

How do I go round claiming the charges back?

Anyone can give their opinion regarding the agreement?


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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The credit agreement

Doc1.pdf


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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Here is the DN - any infor reagrding the validity? - Looks valid to me:mad:.


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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ping postggj

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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I would really appreciate it if someone can help me here.

 

I send a pm to postggj a few days ago - no joy

I used the red triangle to send it to a mod - no joy!


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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if the DN was posted 1st class it is compliant

if it was posted 2nd class it it not.

 

we need to see the envelope.

 

1st class is 2 working days + 14 days

2nd class is 4 working days + 14 days.

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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if the DN was posted 1st class it is compliant

if it was posted 2nd class it it not.

 

we need to see the envelope.

 

1st class is 2 working days + 14 days

2nd class is 4 working days + 14 days.

 

dx

 

Sorry, I didn't add the envelope to the 2nd one - had to remove the 1st one because of the barcode.

 

dx, you have any experience about agreements?


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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if you have put the a/c into despute because of the PPIU reclaim [i hope you have done it correctly calc'ed]

then you should be ok

 

what are you worried about?

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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I send the PPI claim off a day before I received the DN, therefore they issued it before they recived the PPI claim. The remedy date of the DN, however is after they received the PPI claim, therefore the account is in dispute then, the remedy date is the 2nd.

 

Not sure whether I calculated the PPI correctly, I add the interest I paid on the loan, which could be wrong. If that is important then I can change it and resend the claim with the "Account in Dispute" notice, given that it will helped as I send it after the DN but before the remedy date?


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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What I am worried about is 2-fold:

 

First is the fact that I paid a lot on the car and do not want to loose it, should I get the PPI back and also the charges, then there are very little to pay. Therfore I believe there is a lot to play with.

 

The second point is that my wife will self some property in her native country in the near future. We want to apply for a morgage in the near future, I will attempt to get rid of the invalid Defaults on the credit file (I know it will take some time) but I am concerned about valid deafults because they will stay for 6 years, making it almost impossible to get a morgage for that time.


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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do some reading in the ppi forum.

 

well yes it is important, but not earth shattering if you get it wrong, just makes you look silly if its incorrect.

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Am I correct that they cannot file the Default with CRA's while the account is in dispute? (Not that it will stop them)


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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both the FOS and OFT etc are all down on record as saying they do not consider a PPI reclaim 'a dispute'

 

wouldn't matter anyhow, they'ed still default you.

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Am I correct that they cannot file the Default with CRA's while the account is in dispute? (Not that it will stop them)

 

Just some advice. Take it or leave it.

 

I can see you are trying to get to grips with the various debts that you have, as a result of being let down by a debt recovery company. As many people find, the legislation and rules that apply are quite complex. As such, when legal action is threatened, it can get quite stressful and this can increase as you get closer to any court hearings.

 

For this reason, may I suggest that you obtain proper legal advice. Contact your local CAB or call Community Legal to arrange an initial meeting with a solicitor.

 

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Just some advice. Take it or leave it.

 

I can see you are trying to get to grips with the various debts that you have, as a result of being let down by a debt recovery company. As many people find, the legislation and rules that apply are quite complex. As such, when legal action is threatened, it can get quite stressful and this can increase as you get closer to any court hearings.

 

For this reason, may I suggest that you obtain proper legal advice. Contact your local CAB or call Community Legal to arrange an initial meeting with a solicitor.

 

Citizens Advice - the charity for your community

Community Legal Advice - free legal advice for residents of England and Wales, paid for by legal aid

 

Thanks, but no thanks. I believe that I will be more than capable of handling it myself and to come to grips with it with many people here that provide some very good advice.


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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Have a look at these links which may help you understand the enforceabilty of the paperwork (courtesy of 42man & steven4064) -

 

 

Is My Agreement Enforceable - Useful

 

 

Consumer Credit Agreements


 

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Any advice & opinions given by supasnooper are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.

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HI there,

 

Has the creditor served you with a return of goods order via the courts?

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A DN was served my HBOS originally followed by letter telling me to return it, but that part of HBOS ceased to exist.

 

The account was then passed to BlackHorse (as a result of Lloyds TSB merging with HBOS). BlackHorse did send another DN that only expires on the 2nd of August 2010. I believe they can only then ask for the return of the goods.

 

Therefore there is no return of goods via the courts yet but I expect that they will take it to the court in the near future.


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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They'll need a court order to recover the vehicle if more than 1/3 has been paid of the finance as it's a CCA regulated HP agreement.

 

It is possible to ask the court to suspend the repossession either by making an offer to pay your usual instalment plus a little extra each month - or - by asking the court to make a 'Time Order' which reschedules the agreement into affordable instalments which can be less than the original instalment amount. Please note that Time Orders are usually a temporary measure.

 

More info via the following fact-sheets:

 

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 06 Time Orders

 

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 16 Hire Purchase Debt

 

Of course, all this advice is based upon the creditor proving they have their house in order re: Default notices and the like!

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It seems that their house are OK, still try to poke for holes though! The DN seems to be fine. I am asking for PPI returns, which makes the bulk of the arrears as well as charges.

 

Thanks for all the pointers! I want to go for a make regular payments if I am forced into a corner, the one thing is that outstanding amount is a so called "balloon" payment.

 

Do have some pointers how I can go about reclaiming the excessive charges on such an account?


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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have you got a statement of a/c so you know what you've be charged/paid and when ?

that as the first step to getting back unlawful charges.

 

ppi can be worked out from the agreement.

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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have you got a statement of a/c so you know what you've be charged/paid and when ?

that as the first step to getting back unlawful charges.

 

ppi can be worked out from the agreement.

 

dx

 

Yes, I have but can only scan it on Monday.

 

I am studying Credit Agreements and think the agreement is not enforceable because:

 

A heading in the prescribed form giving the nature of the agreement (Schedule 1) is missing.

 

A statement of your rights (Schedule 2) - YOUR RIGHT TO CANCEL is missing.

 

It doesn't comply with s18 for it does not lay out the agreement as 2 seperate agreements.


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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Actually I have both the PPI and charges with their dates in a spreadsheet.

BlackHorse.xls


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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is that with 8% stat int from the day they charged you to they day of your claim for EACH one?

 

don't think so because they should all be slightly diff if so.

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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