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I made a SAR to HSBC and received their anticipated fop of letter saying they require a signature together with a lot of other junk. I did see before someone posted the direct address of their data controller but I have no idea where it is! Can someone post it please?

 

I do have enough information to answer them but there is one point that seems a bit dubious to me and will appreciate someone shedding light on it:

 

"Please note that account details relating to a limited company do not fall within the terms of the DPA 1998"

 

There is a lot of rubbish in this letter, I send them a postal order and I kept the receipt but now they are asking for the fee, even gave me a form to fill in bank details or to send a cheque!

 

Also that it would be better for me to request specific information and this:

"Before you decide to progress a full search for information we may hold about you, please take time to read the contents of this letter, as such a request may not provide you with the response you require"

 

Since when will them providing me everything they have about me not provide me with the information I need:eek:!?!


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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Data Controller address is:

 

Data Controller

HSBC Bank

8 Canada Square

London

E14 5HQ

 

But, you're probably best writing to their Data Privacy Compliance team:

 

 

UK Data Privacy Compliance

HSBC Bank

Griffin House 2-01

41 Silver Street Head

Sheffield

S1 3GG

 

Although, they were a waste of space when I tried to get information from them - took me 5 letters.


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Data Controller address is:

 

Data Controller

HSBC Bank

8 Canada Square

London

E14 5HQ

 

But, you're probably best writing to their Data Privacy Compliance team:

 

 

UK Data Privacy Compliance

HSBC Bank

Griffin House 2-01

41 Silver Street Head

Sheffield

S1 3GG

 

Although, they were a waste of space when I tried to get information from them - took me 5 letters.

 

I complained to the ICO, then got the info (a big box full of about 20,000 bits of toilet roll) within 5 days even though they never had my signature> The ICO upheld my complaint as well.

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There should be no requirement to provide a sig - if they are not satisfied that you are the subject making the request,then they can demand evidence.

A copy of a utility bill showing proof of address,and a copy of a drivers licence/passport etc should suffice (blank out sigs)

 

Heres the entry on the ICO public register;

 

Registration Number: Z5734875

Date Registered: 21 September 2001 Registration Expires: 20 September 2010

 

Data Controller: HSBC BANK PLC

 

Address:

8 CANADA SQUARE

LONDON

E14 5HQ

Representative Name:

 

GROUP DATA PROTECTION MANAGER

 

I would address any complaints or notice to file a complaint to the ICO for non compliance to the GDPM.


Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Thanks for all the info! Anything about their statement about limited companies because I did send some SAR's to limited companies.


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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How long does such a complaint with the ICO usually takes? I would image a number of months, if not longer.


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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Yes unfortunately its not fast.


Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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I complained to the ICO, then got the info (a big box full of about 20,000 bits of toilet roll) within 5 days even though they never had my signature> The ICO upheld my complaint as well.

 

Seems that the banks needs some encouraging when it actually comes to them working for their money:grin:

 

They charge £25 for the letter send out when you incur theft charges for their "work". Now see, 20 000 x £25.00, what will that be? and they get only a tenner!:eek:

 

No wonder they seems not too keen to actually adhere!!!


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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I complained to the ICO

 

Does such a complaint actually cost them (i.e HSBC) any money?


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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I dont think so.

A complaint opened with the FOS does though I think its 450 quid a time now.

And they have to pay this whether the complaint is upheld or not.


Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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I complained to the ICO, then got the info (a big box full of about 20,000 bits of toilet roll) within 5 days even though they never had my signature. The ICO upheld my complaint as well.

 

When did you actually received the info? When you complained or after the complain were upheld? I need the information relative fast (40 days OK) but waiting months will cause significant problems for me.


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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When did you actually received the info? When you complained or after the complain were upheld? I need the information relative fast (40 days OK) but waiting months will cause significant problems for me.

 

First you need to email the ceo Stephen Green, funnily enough you can't email him directly but his PA is Sara.J.dare@hsbc.com, ask her to pass your email immediately to Stephen Green. You'll probably think you are getting fobbed off but keep complaining to him.

 

Unfortunately you can't complain to the ICO until the 40 days is up, if you sent the letter by signed for use the date that they RM confirm they recieved it.

 

After this complain to the ICO,copy the complaint to Stephen Green.

The data was recieved very quickly after the ICO became involved, despite recieving a letter 2 days before where HSBC denied ever receiving my request.

In all it took about 80 days to get my data, as they kept denying ever receiving my request or payment, despite proof of receipt being available.

 

HSBC didn't wait for the ICO to upheld my complaint but seemed to panic when they realised I was serious.

 

I believe it is HSBC'S Policy that they ignore any potentially damaging requests for information, until such point that outside agencies become involved.

 

It's also worth complaining to Tower Hamlets trading standards Bridget.Rushmoor@towerhamlets.gov.uk, is the TSO who deals with HSBC.

You might have said earlier, but why do you want this info?

Don't forget to tell them that the account is in dispute until you receive this info and you have chance to fully review the info.

Take Care

Jon

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Also meant to say send all communication directly to Stephen Green, via Sara Dare, I understand (from inside sources!) he gets very annoyed at having to deal with other emplyees c--k ups.

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Thanks Jon

 

First you need to email the ceo Stephen Green, funnily enough you can't email him directly but his PA is Sara.J.dare@hsbc.com, ask her to pass your email immediately to Stephen Green. You'll probably think you are getting fobbed off but keep complaining to him.Unfortunately you can't complain to the ICO until the 40 days is up, if you sent the letter by signed for use the date that they RM confirm they recieved it.
I am busying drafting my reply to them, using some information I got from someone when I asked advice when I had the same problem with CrapOne (still going on, long past the 40 days now). Should I email him at this stage?

 

After this complain to the ICO,copy the complaint to Stephen Green.

The data was recieved very quickly after the ICO became involved, despite recieving a letter 2 days before where HSBC denied ever receiving my request.

I received their fob off letter, confirming they received the request, so it can be very difficult for them denying it. It looked like a standard letter which is also asking for payment. I paid with a Postal order made out to HSBC and it was crossed, is there a way to see whether they actually cashed it?

 

In all it took about 80 days to get my data, as they kept denying ever receiving my request or payment, despite proof of receipt being available.
This should make good ammunition to provide the ICO with!:p

 

HSBC didn't wait for the ICO to upheld my complaint but seemed to panic when they realised I was serious. I believe it is HSBC'S Policy that they ignore any potentially damaging requests for information, until such point that outside agencies become involved.
It seems definitely like it! Telling me by sending all the information could not necessary answer my question(s) but by sending selective parts will answer it! Actually pretty daft wording to try to fob off someone!!:Cry:

 

It's also worth complaining to Tower Hamlets trading standards Bridget.Rushmoor@towerhamlets.gov.uk, is the TSO who deals with HSBC.
Also, should I do it now or after the 40 days?

 

You might have said earlier, but why do you want this info?
For a whole range of reasons:

1. I had a current account and it contains a truck load of theft charges, I was involved with an utter useless debt reduction company (in the process of getting rid of them - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/219311-first-step-finance-10.html) who asked for a list of the theft charges back in Dec 2009 and still haven’t receive them. I also want complete bank statement to calculate the interest HSBC pocketed on these theft charges aka a thread by one of the mods how to do that.

2. I had a personal loan with them, well I borrowed a number of times, in which instances you take out a new loan (sure you know that) but each of these contained PPI. After a CCA I received the details of the PPI of the current loan, but I have no idea what the account numbers were for the others.

3. I also had a credit card which I closed some time ago, I am sure there is also PPI and probable theft charges.

4. DG Poor Souls are threatening me with legal action and I want all the info I can get – they actually shot themselves in the foot: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/259027-little-old-me-hsbc-5.html#post3037829

 

Don't forget to tell them that the account is in dispute until you receive this info and you have chance to fully review the info.

I was wondering about this, received a number of incomplete responses (Vanquis, Barclaycard, etc.). I assume that you believe this put the account in dispute?

 

 

Sorry for the lengthy post but I will appreciate all the help I can get:-x


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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I complained to Stephen Green as soon as it became apparnet thw=ey were going to play silly b-----s.

As for payment they never did cash my cheque, just insist that you sent payment and they must have it. I think you can check a po with the post office, if you know the number.

I would complain to TS now as they definitely seem to be trying to avoid disclosing potentially damaging data.

 

Wow, I could be reading my reasons, well actually my partners reasons, which i've been dealing with!

 

They allege that she owes them 12k! We have evidence of Missold PPI, unlawful charges etc that if interest was added on would exceed the alleged balance.

Also have they combined all these accounts into an overdraft? Because this is an attempt to bypass the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act. They will claim that you gave written permission but when you push will then claim that they have mislaid it!

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As for putting accounts into dispute because of incomplete disclosure, I certainly would consider it to be a valid dispute.

 

You could also look at quoting some of the money laundering regulations to them.

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I received their fob off letter, confirming they received the request, so it can be very difficult for them denying it. It looked like a standard letter which is also asking for payment. I paid with a Postal order made out to HSBC and it was crossed, is there a way to see whether they actually cashed it?

 

 

You need to get a form P58 from Post office.


Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Although, they were a waste of space when I tried to get information from them - took me 5 letters.

 

I think I would not mind sending them 5 letters, I have decided to charge an admit fee for every unnecessary response aka:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/267256-how-can-i-use.html

 

I will inform them when writing my response:cool:.

 

Besides being nasty with them to get them to do which they are legal bound to do, why should I waste my time and money to get them to do what they should be doing anyway?


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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Also have they combined all these accounts into an overdraft? Because this is an attempt to bypass the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act. They will claim that you gave written permission but when you push will then claim that they have mislaid it!

 

I do not at this stage what is going on but I think it is simply utter incompetence by either DG Sorry Souls or someone at HSBC (not that I mind :)), the figure looks that it is only the loan under the current account number. On the other hand, they are extremely quite about the current account.

 

The more reason why I need the outcome of teh SAR.


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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Here is my response to them, any inputs will be appreciated!

 

 

 

XXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXX

17 July 2010

 

UK Data Privacy Compliance

HSBC Bank

Griffin House 2-01

41 Silver Street Head

Sheffield

S1 3GG

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number – XXXXXXXXXXXX /

 

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I received your response regarding my Subject Access Request which I interpret as a blatant attempt to try to avoid supplying me with the required information. I am not entirely surprised by it because I have been before warned that this is the way in which you respond to such request on many occasions. You received all the information you need to fulfill the request in my first letter as well as the payment (Postal Order: Voucher ID: XXXXXXX), therefore the clock for the 40 days started on 14/07/2010 and will expire on Monday 23/08/2010. Should you have failed to adhere to my request by that date, I will start immediately with my complaint to the Information Commissioner’s Office.

 

I thought it was very clear in the letter that this is a Subject Access Request, meaning you must provide me with a copy of all the data you have on file regarding me. I made the request I am entitled under law, I paid the fee, it is not up to you to speculate whether the request will provide me with more information that I required or not. I simple cannot understand your statement that this request can fail to provide me with the information I need, it will only fail if you fail to include all the requested data.

 

You have stipulated that you require proof of my identity/signature before you comply with my Subject access request, may I bring the following to your attention;

 

Data Protection Act Good Practice Notes (Issued by the Information Commissioner’s Office):

2. Do you have enough information to be sure of the requester’s identity?

Often you will have no reason to doubt a person’s identity. For example, if a person with whom you have regular contact sends a letter from their known address it may be safe to assume that they are who they say they are.

 

Suffice to say that if the Information Commissioners Office is satisfied that if you have previously corresponded with me at this address then it is reasonable that I am the person I say I am, therefore there is neither legislation nor guidelines that you can hide behind in an attempt to avoid fulfilling my legal request.

 

If you still fail to comply with my legal request, I will have no other option than to complain to the Information Commissioners Office & if my complaint is upheld you will be liable to a £5000 fine.

 

I am full aware of situations in the past where you responded in a similar manner to similar requests in that you require proof of identity/signature (other than the valid proof which they supplied in their request, similar to what I provided you with) before you comply with the Subject Access Request. They complained to the Information Commissioner’s Office and the ICO upheld the requester’s complaint that you failed to provide the information without providing a signature and you were forced to comply with the request.

 

I also want to draw your attention to the following:

Select committee on Trade and Industry minutes of evidence

(1996 Legislative working party)

 

2. The working party looked at the legal issues regarding the terms document, writing, signature, instrument, and records of transactions and originality. The Government's current proposed legislation focuses particularly upon the issue of signature. The working party considered the leading case in English law on signature methods, Goodman -v- J Eban Limited. That decision established that:

2.1 mechanical signatures using rubber stamps, printing or typewriting were valid in english law;

2.2 a signature can be by a mark rather than a name as long as evidence can be given to indentify the placer of the mark and the intention to sign; and

2.3 words other than a name can amount to a signature if the necessary intention to sign can be proven

 

Now although this working party was looking into the Electronics Commerce Bill it points to. .

Goodman v J Eban Ltd (1954)

 

A solicitor signed a solicitor’s bill with a rubber stamp which contained the name of the law firm. In the judgment it was determined that the rubber stamp was a valid signature, even though the Solicitors Act of 1932 required a solicitors bill to be signed; it was established that it is enough to demonstrate that the rubber stamp was affixed by the solicitor with the intention to sign the solicitor's bill.

 

So now taking the highlights above I go to:

Interpretations act 1978

Schedule 1

1973 c.37.

"Writing" includes typing, lithograpgy, photography or other modes of representing or reproducing words in a visible form and expressions referring to writing can be construed accordingly.

 

To reiterate the information I need under this request:

This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

1. The original signed, executed credit agreements and any terms and conditions that applied to the accounts at the time of default and at the time the accounts were opened.

2. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention.

3. True copies of any notice of assignments and default notices or enforcement notices that you, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

4. Documents relating to any insurance added to the accounts, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date/s they were/ it was added and deleted. (if applicable).

5. Details of any collection charges added to the accounts; specifically, the date they were/it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial Breakdown of how the charge was/charges were calculated, and what the charge covers/charges cover.

6. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account/these accounts and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

7. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998.

8. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

9. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

10. Termination notices.

 

PLEASE NOTE that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec).

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply all the above documents in line with the Information Commissioners Technical Guidance update (Dated August 2007).

 

Please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties or charges which are invalid under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations against me, then I shall be reclaiming them together with any interest charges which you have levied on them.

 

You are also reminded that The Subject Access is not limited to my transaction history and it is not limited merely to 6 years of historical information, therefore the information provided has to include information up to November 2003. It should contain information the current account I held with HSBC as well as all the personal loans and credit cards.

 

I hope you will respond responsible to this reply so that there is no need to refer this matter to the Information Commissioners Office and I also return your application form because there is no need for it.

 

I am also informing you that I believe any future correspondence received from you, except you’re acknowledgment letter that you have started the search and the actual documents of the response to the Subject Access request, would be unnecessary and I responding to that will incur an admin charge of £50.00 and you will be invoiced.

 

Furthermore I put you on notice that I am filing a complaint with Tower Hamlets Trading Standards for this attempt to not comply with my request and I am also bringing it to the attention of Stephen Green, the CEO of HSBC, through his Personal Assistant, Sara Dare.

 

Yours,


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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Re checking PO's..

I wrote to:

Post Office

1 Future Walk

West Bars

CHESTERFIELD

S49 1PF

enclosing scans of the PO receipts and got written confirmation of date of cashing of each one. It took about a week.

Elsa x

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All opinions are my own based on research. I am not legally qualified, if in doubt please consult a legal expert.

Hope this has helped or made you smile. Keep your chin up, you're among friends now! Elsa xxx

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Thanks Martin and Elsa for the PO information, I will get that to ensure they are not using that as an additional delaying tactic.


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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01246542091 is the phone number to check postal orders

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I have no legal training, any knowledge I have has come from this forum, and my own experiences. Always balance up any advice you get with your own common sense.

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I complained to Stephen Green as soon as it became apparnet thw=ey were going to play silly b-----s.

What did your email to him contained, do I jsut send him a copy of the letter I mailed?


“We believe Capital One Law takes privilege over UK Law” – Sven Lagerberg – Capital One.

-----------------

By supplying ALL the documents WILL NOT answer your questions but by supplying a SELECTIVE few will. – Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Separate requests with a fee should be made to ALL relevant Data Controllers in an organisation. - Jayne Sheenan – HSBC

------------------

Our t&c's overrides ICO guidelines when reporting to CRA's - Karon A Bullock - Capital One

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What did your email to him contained, do I jsut send him a copy of the letter I mailed?

 

I just sent a copy of the letter I sent, in fact in the end I just addressed all communications to him.

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