Bailiffs rights when we are sick?

[sarah13]

Hi,

we defaulted on our council tax which lead to them passing the debt to Rossendales their bailiffs. They visited us and i set up an agreement to pay them. I paid all but the last instalment as i was taken very ill, admitted to hospital and bills were the last thing on my mind (i nearly died).

After that my husband was signed off work and put on statutory sick pay due to depression. whilst i was at the doctors last week, he got a knock on the door and 2 bailiffs and van were there saying as i had defaulted on the agreement they were going to take our stuff unless we paid up £503 (the last instalment was £240 and this was plus their charges).

My husband panicked and called my mum who although has money problems of her own, managed to get the money together to pay them off.

My question is that as hes sick and signed off work and as i have been so ill (and am still recovering) should they have been allowed to do this? A friend said that they should not have been but i wondered if anyone with more knowledge could advise.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Sarah

[tomtubby]

Hi,

we defaulted on our council tax which lead to them passing the debt to Rossendales their bailiffs. They visited us and i set up an agreement to pay them. I paid all but the last instalment as i was taken very ill, admitted to hospital and bills were the last thing on my mind (i nearly died).

After that my husband was signed off work and put on statutory sick pay due to depression. whilst i was at the doctors last week, he got a knock on the door and 2 bailiffs and van were there saying as i had defaulted on the agreement they were going to take our stuff unless we paid up £503 (the last instalment was £240 and this was plus their charges).

My husband panicked and called my mum who although has money problems of her own, managed to get the money together to pay them off.

My question is that as hes sick and signed off work and as i have been so ill (and am still recovering) should they have been allowed to do this? A friend said that they should not have been but i wondered if anyone with more knowledge could advise.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Sarah

 

 

Sadly, once again a bailiff has received the FULL AMOUNT that he was trying to obtain because he was threatening towards your family. Bailiffs KNOW that this is the way to get payment.

 

If you cannot make a payment it is really important to ensure that your WRITE to the company to make them aware. At least that way IF a visit is made when it should not have been then at least there is a "paper trail" that you can rely upon when making a FORMAL COMPLAINT.

 

The bailiff has charged you an extra £260. Did the bailiff PREVIOUSLY levy against goods (when you made the agreement to pay) ?

 

If not, was a "levy" made last week when the bailifs visited?

Edited July 15, 2010 by tomtubby

[ploddertom]

Even though the debt is now paid you can still ask lots of questions of the wrongs and rights of what happened - and you have 6 years to claim back any monies you have overpaid.

 

TT makes a valid point about the pressure that is applied and like you it works in a lot of cases. In theory no they shouldn't have been allowed to do it and if pressurised would probably have backed off.

 

Now its all paid you can sit back at leisure and find out if what you were charges was excessive and if so with help from here you can claim back any overpayment. To do this you need to go back to the beginning and examine any paperwork you have or were given.

 

1 - the total you owed on the Liability Order - did you know how much this was or did the Bailiff just give you a figure.

2 - the Bailiff - how many times did he visit, did he levy/seize any goods - if so what, did he leave any paperwork detailing charges. Did you get receipts from him for the monies paid.

 

This is a start and there is a letter you can send them asking for a Breakdown of their fees if needed.

 

PT

[sarah13]

Even though the debt is now paid you can still ask lots of questions of the wrongs and rights of what happened - and you have 6 years to claim back any monies you have overpaid.

 

TT makes a valid point about the pressure that is applied and like you it works in a lot of cases. In theory no they shouldn't have been allowed to do it and if pressurised would probably have backed off.

 

Now its all paid you can sit back at leisure and find out if what you were charges was excessive and if so with help from here you can claim back any overpayment. To do this you need to go back to the beginning and examine any paperwork you have or were given.

 

1 - the total you owed on the Liability Order - did you know how much this was or did the Bailiff just give you a figure.

2 - the Bailiff - how many times did he visit, did he levy/seize any goods - if so what, did he leave any paperwork detailing charges. Did you get receipts from him for the monies paid.

 

This is a start and there is a letter you can send them asking for a Breakdown of their fees if needed.

 

PT

 

 

Thanks for replying.

 

I dont know exactly how much was owing and i dont have a copy of the liability order. I only have the paperwork they left after last week. as i said i didnt see them as i was at the surgery at the time but apparently they had a list of times they had phoned my house and got no answer- however i have an answering machine and never had any messages left from them. They did not leave this list.

 

They did leave a notice of distress and had filled out an inventory which listed my ancient tv, my pc and my falling apart sideboard (my husband was not aware they had done this). It has a walking posssession agreement at the bottom which lists:

 

client debt and costs outstanding £163.70

second visit fee £28.00

Van attendance £110.00

TOTAL £301.70

 

We did get a receipt for the money paid and the balance is now at nil. As i said my Mum can not afford this so if i can recoup any money back for her it would be great.

 

Do i have a leg to stand on? What do you think i should do next?

 

Thanks again

 

Sarah

[ploddertom]

Thanks for replying.

 

I dont know exactly how much was owing and i dont have a copy of the liability order.

In the morning ring the Council and ask:

1- how much the Liability Order was for

2- how much is still outstanding

I only have the paperwork they left after last week. as i said i didnt see them as i was at the surgery at the time but apparently they had a list of times they had phoned my house

Couldn't give a monkeys how many times they claimed to ring this does not constitute an excuse to charge you - only visits count.

and got no answer- however i have an answering machine and never had any messages left from them. They did not leave this list.

 

They did leave a notice of distress and had filled out an inventory which listed my ancient tv, my pc and my falling apart sideboard (my husband was not aware they had done this).

How old 's your TV?

How old's the PC?

Sideboard - zero value

It has a walking posssession agreement at the bottom which lists:

 

client debt and costs outstanding £163.70

second visit fee £28.00

Van attendance £110.00

TOTAL £301.70

doesn't sound right

 

We did get a receipt for the money paid and the balance is now at nil. As i said my Mum can not afford this so if i can recoup any money back for her it would be great.

 

Do i have a leg to stand on? What do you think i should do next? See below

 

Thanks again

 

Sarah

 

Send the Bailiffs this, use and adapt as you see fit, send by email and a copy in the post sent Signed For:

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account. Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges including Computer Screenshot.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

When you get a response come back and we'll see what we can try and do.

 

PT

[sarah13]

thanks so much- will send this letter and let you know what happens x:)

[tomtubby]

thanks so much- will send this letter and let you know what happens x:)

 

Sarah,

 

You have said that the bailiff left a Notice of Distress. Did the bailiff gain entry into your home to do or did he look through the window. You husband should know. Finally, who signed the form?

[sarah13]

Sarah,

 

You have said that the bailiff left a Notice of Distress. Did the bailiff gain entry into your home to do or did he look through the window. You husband should know. Finally, who signed the form?

 

My husband opened the door thinking it was the postman- he also had our crying baby in his arms and it panicked him. he made him stand on the doorstep until my mother arrived. She then told them to come in as she didnt want the neighbours to see them. I would not have let them in. The notice of distress is signed but the signature is not legible. Thanks TT and PT

[RaeUK]

Hi sarah13, everything the bailiff did was wrong. I'm sorry your husband was coerced into borrowing money to pay a bailiff.

Do follow the excellent advice you are receiving and then follow up with a strong Formal Complaint to the CEO of the relevant council.

Best wishes

Rae

[sarah13]

Have recieved an email reply from Rossendales - here it is:::

 

Dear Mrs. ,

Thank you for your email.

We are not obligated to provide you a computer screen shot of your account as information that is not relevant to your account would also be displayed.

A statement of your account has been issued to you which is produced directly upon the information contained on your account. This will include the original debt balance, all fees incurred and any payments you made.

Bailiffs visits occurred on the following dates and times:-

15th January 2010 at 11:20

22nd January 2010 at 14:50

8th July 2010 at 10:20

The first two visits were the statutory visits by the first call bailiff, xxx, who attended in attempt to secure a levy on your goods. As he was unable to secure a levy the visits were deemed abortive and the statutory visit charges applied.

Following the second visit we granted you a repayment arrangement which defaulted for a second time due to late payment in April and absence of payment during May. Your account was then issued to the van bailiff, xxx, to enforce the Magistrates Liability Order in the absence of full payment. Ms xxx secured a levy on your goods on 8th July which incurred the charge for doing such along with a charge for her attendance to enforce if payment wasn’t met.

xxx was last certificated at Burnley Combined Court on 13.7.2009 and xxx last certificated at Burnley Combined Court on 2.11.2009.

Certificates are valid for two years from date of issue.

Yours sincerely,

xxx

Customer Correspondence and Welfare Officer

So they state that they are not obligated to provide a computer screen shot of my account- Doesn't sound right? What should i do next? Thanks everyone for advice

Edited July 16, 2010 by sarah13
removed names

[seanamarts]

Readable now

Dear Mrs. ,

Thank you for your email.

We are not obligated to provide you a computer screen shot of your account as information that is not relevant to your account would also be displayed

A statement of your account has been issued to you which is produced directly upon the information contained on your account. This will include the original debt balance, all fees incurred and any payments you made.

Bailiffs visits occurred on the following dates and times:-

15th January 2010 at 11:20

22nd January 2010 at 14:50

8th July 2010 at 10:20

The first two visits were the statutory visits by the first call bailiff, **** ***, who attended in attempt to secure a levy on your goods. As he was unable to secure a levy the visits were deemed abortive and the statutory visit charges applied.

Following the second visit we granted you a repayment arrangement which defaulted for a second time due to late payment in April and absence of payment during May. Your account was then issued to the van bailiff, *********, to enforce the Magistrates Liability Order in the absence of full payment. Ms ****** secured a levy on your goods on 8th July which incurred the charge for doing such along with a charge for her attendance to enforce if payment wasn’t met.

**** *** was last certificated at Burnley Combined Court on 13.7.2009 and ******* ********* last certificated at Burnley Combined Court on 2.11.2009.

Certificates are valid for two years from date of issue.Yours sincerely,

N****** ******

Customer Correspondence and Welfare Officer

Edited July 16, 2010 by seanamarts
removal of names

[sarah13]

thanks for making it readable

Edited July 16, 2010 by sarah13
spelling

[seanamarts]

Have recieved an email reply from Rossendales - here it is:::

 

So they state that they are not obligated to provide a computer screen shot of my account- Doesn't sound right? What should i do next? Thanks everyone for advice

 

First off they are obliged to send you a screen shot and any information that is requested with regards to you account.

They have not levied correctly either as they need to levy for the amount you owe, plus their fees plus auction costs.

Can you remove names from your post

[ploddertom]

I would strongly argue the point over the levy they have made as to its validity.

 

A levy can be made on goods which when sold at auction would:

a - pay the Bailiff costs

b - pay the removal costs

c - pay the auction costs

d - pay the Auctioneers costs

e - pay a proportion off the original debt

 

In my view the items you have listed - and I mean to cause no offence here - have next to no value if sold at auction and would not even cover the removal costs let alone any of the others. I would therefore put it to the Bailiff and his Company that a levy was made only to get an extra fee for himself and his Company. If it were me then I would be aggrieved by the levy and ask for the charges to be removed.

 

PT

[sarah13]

I would strongly argue the point over the levy they have made as to its validity.

 

A levy can be made on goods which when sold at auction would:

a - pay the Bailiff costs

b - pay the removal costs

c - pay the auction costs

d - pay the Auctioneers costs

e - pay a proportion off the original debt

 

In my view the items you have listed - and I mean to cause no offence here - No offensive taken- i agree with you have next to no value if sold at auction and would not even cover the removal costs let alone any of the others. I would therefore put it to the Bailiff and his Company that a levy was made only to get an extra fee for himself and his Company. If it were me then I would be aggrieved by the levy and ask for the charges to be removed. i will draft something stating this

 

PT

 

Can't say it enough but thanks for all your help

[JH101]

Per Culligan v Simkin and Marston's, they can't charge a van fee for coming to levy can they?

 

After levying, they have to give you a reasonable chance to pay (which you did), before they can re-attend to remove goods.

 

They can only charge a van fee for the re-attendance (which didn't happen), not for coming to levy.

 

It should have been a levy fee of £23.27, not a van fee of £110.

 

Edit: Adding -- another thing.

The second "visit" fee is not right either, because they're saying that took place on 22 January 2010, so it is already included in the "debt and costs outstanding" item.

 

So that should go, which would bring the levy fee down fractionally to £22.58 (being 20% of the first £100, plus 4% of the remaining £63.70)

 

So what you should have paid in all was £186.28 (plus perhaps £3.95 VAT on their fee).

Edited July 16, 2010 by JH101

[hallowitch]

So that should go, which would bring the levy fee down fractionally to £22.58 (being 20% of the first £100, plus 4% of the remaining £63.70)

 

So what you should have paid in all was £186.28 (plus perhaps £3.95 VAT on their fee).

 

there is no vat on bailiffs fees when collecting council tax

the 20% of the first £100 is now 24.5 %

[JH101]

Okay, so that takes the levy fee up to £27.08, which according to the regs gets rounded up to the next pound, hence their £28.

 

£28 would have to be a levy fee anyway, because the proper prescribed "second visit" fee is only £18.50

 

But I think you can still take out the "attendance to remove fee".