Charging Order question

[w401620]

Quick question (I hope !).

 

I received a letter today from Dryden's who state that they "have been instructed to take legal action against you with a view to obtaining a charging order against your property".

 

Having had a quick look around, my question is - can they do this without a CCJ against me being in place ?

 

My research has shown that a CCJ has to exist before a Charging Order can be applied for ... and not having received any papers about one, I was just wondering if this is a standard scare tactic.

[supasnooper]

Scare tactic.

 

Drydens need to secure a CCJ first before they can apply for a Charging Order.

 

Have a look at the link below for more info -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/203298-guide-charging-orders-orders.html

[rebel11]

Hi w401

 

this might also help:-

Debt Factsheets - Charging orders in the county court

[w401620]

Thanks for the quick replies.

 

Spoke to the Insolvency Helpline people and they said that Dryden's will apply for, and get, a CCJ against me, then push for the Charging Order, based on the fact that I've only offered a small amount - a tenner a month - towards the debt. Trouble is - what is a small amount to them is a large amount to me when my Jobseeker's runs out next month ...

 

What I found rather chilling was that the chap I spoke to was able, with a few clicks of the keyboard, to get a rough idea of the value of our property based on the price the property next door went for a few years ago ... I didn't realise such information was in the public domain ... and said that as there was likely to be equity in the property, they would definitely go for the Order as it, in effect, acted as security for the debt. He also pointed out that with this in place, there was little likelihood of their accepting a full and final settlement of a smaller amount of the debt ... so it looks like I'm stuffed on that front unless a ten grand cheque falls through the letterbox sometime soon !

 

What is really annoying about the whole thing is that the original loan was supposedly covered by Payment Protection Insurance ... I did - eventually - get the money back that I'd paid but by then the downward spiral had started.

 

Once again, thanks for the help and advice.

Peter

[dx100uk]

you are jumping the gun here by several months if not years......

 

how much are we talking about in debt to drydens

also if you are on benefits, then no dice for them either..

 

just a threat-o-gram stop worrying.

 

can you scan up that letter please

rev all pers info

 

dx

[Dotty50]

Hi W401620,

 

Yes there a many websited now that you can easily register with and access information about sale prices of houses but whatever a house sold for a few years ago isn't really relevant it todays market.

 

If a CCJ is registerd against you, the Judge should only agree a payment that you can afford.

[Dotty50]

Are you following me DX?

 

Thought I had escaped!

[w401620]

Hi all,

 

Well it looks like the ball has started rolling as the dreaded brown envelope from Northampton containing a Claim Form arrived this morning. I would therefore appreciate some advice/answers to the following:

 

1. Presumably the first thing to be done is to return the Acknowledgement of service bit - it this best done electronically or via post ?

 

2. As the stated aim of the Claimant is to obtain a Charging Order due to the size of the debt, are they actually allowed to ask for a CCJ based on the whole of the debt they bought from MBNA (some 18k), bearing in mind they won't have paid anything like this for it ?

 

3. Based on the answer to question 2 above, do I intend to defend all or part of this claim as this is one of the boxes I have to tick on the Acknowledgement form.

 

I have to ask these questions as due to my JobSeeker's Allowance coming to an end next month - not enough Class 1 NI contributions apparently - things are going to get somewhat difficult as we are only just getting by on my Better Half's wages at the moment ...

 

Regards,

Peter

[Julia Roberts]

Hi W401620,

 

Yes there a many websited now that you can easily register with and access information about sale prices of houses but whatever a house sold for a few years ago isn't really relevant it todays market.

 

If a CCJ is registerd against you, the Judge should only agree a payment that you can afford.

 

Sadly the judge we had didn't follow that line

[RobinWayRobinme]

First thing to consider is whether you should defend or admit claim. Would suggest you post up the POC (your personal details removed) so some advice can be given based on that.

 

If you admit and complete means section and make an offer, the procedures are set in the CPR's and if you maintain the payments that are stipulated in the judgment, you will not get a charging order against you.

 

Of course, you could defend and more info needed for anyone to give opinions on that.

R

Hi all,

 

Well it looks like the ball has started rolling as the dreaded brown envelope from Northampton containing a Claim Form arrived this morning. I would therefore appreciate some advice/answers to the following:

 

1. Presumably the first thing to be done is to return the Acknowledgement of service bit - it this best done electronically or via post ?

 

2. As the stated aim of the Claimant is to obtain a Charging Order due to the size of the debt, are they actually allowed to ask for a CCJ based on the whole of the debt they bought from MBNA (some 18k), bearing in mind they won't have paid anything like this for it ?

 

3. Based on the answer to question 2 above, do I intend to defend all or part of this claim as this is one of the boxes I have to tick on the Acknowledgement form.

 

I have to ask these questions as due to my JobSeeker's Allowance coming to an end next month - not enough Class 1 NI contributions apparently - things are going to get somewhat difficult as we are only just getting by on my Better Half's wages at the moment ...

 

Regards,

Peter

[Docman]

Hi all,

 

Well it looks like the ball has started rolling as the dreaded brown envelope from Northampton containing a Claim Form arrived this morning. I would therefore appreciate some advice/answers to the following:

 

1. Presumably the first thing to be done is to return the Acknowledgement of service bit - it this best done electronically or via post ?

 

2. As the stated aim of the Claimant is to obtain a Charging Order due to the size of the debt, are they actually allowed to ask for a CCJ based on the whole of the debt they bought from MBNA (some 18k), bearing in mind they won't have paid anything like this for it ?

 

3. Based on the answer to question 2 above, do I intend to defend all or part of this claim as this is one of the boxes I have to tick on the Acknowledgement form.

 

I have to ask these questions as due to my JobSeeker's Allowance coming to an end next month - not enough Class 1 NI contributions apparently - things are going to get somewhat difficult as we are only just getting by on my Better Half's wages at the moment ...

 

Regards,

Peter

 

 

Hi there

 

In answer to your questions

 

1. Yes, if the claim form [N1] is from the Northampton County Court Bulk Centre it is best to acknowledge online. You will then have a further period to decide what you want to do.

 

2. Yes, they can ask for the full amount, not what they paid (if any).

 

3. That's up to you. It depends on how strongly you feel about about paying a DCA in full plus interest for a debt they paid just a few pence in the pound for. (We have learnt that Barclaycard assigned some of its accounts for just 3 p in the £ payable by the DCA when the original debt had been paid in full.)

 

Finally, I would just add that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is a consumer PROTECTION measure. It's up to you whether you want to avail yourself of the protections available.

 

Doc

[dx100uk]

what did the default notice say and did barclays terminate too?

 

dx

[w401620]

As requested ... not sure if a pdf is the best attachment but it's the best I could do quickly !

 

The reason for asking about defending is that, as far as I am concerned, the Claimant has ignored the OFT guidelines in that the initial communication made no attempt an any sort of conciliation - it was a case of going straight for a Charging Order which, as we all know, can't be done unless a CCJ is in force and has not been complied with ... which is not the case. The specific OFT guideline is under the "False representation of authority and/or legal position" where they state that unfair practice is "falsely implying or stating that action can or will be taken when it legally cannot" ... now I appreciate that this is merely a guideline, but if people don't abide by them, then what is the point of having them ?

 

I accept that I do owe money, and am perfectly willing to repay what I am able to afford, but as the Claimant will not have actually forked out 18k to buy the debt, then I would have thought that the argument of going down the legal route to obtain security for the debt again falls foul of the OFT guideline of "applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual and necessary costs" ... the idea was to ask to Court to determine the "actual" cost of the debt and to make an order based on that - but I would imagine that this is an area similar to bank charges in that the DCA would probably rather not tell what they actually pay for a debt, so I'm not sure how much mileage I'd get out of it.

Image050.pdf

[dx100uk]

can you post the dn and the termination letter

 

dx

[cerberusalert]

I've unapproved the attachment so you can edit the password out.

[debbbbsy]

Spoke to the Insolvency Helpline people and they said that Dryden's will apply for, and get, a CCJ against me, then push for the Charging Order, based on the fact that I've only offered a small amount - a tenner a month - towards the debt. Trouble is - what is a small amount to them is a large amount to me when my Jobseeker's runs out next month ...

 

This is totally & utterly wrong. How dare they make this statement without a full understanding of your case.

 

Now that they have filed the claim. Do your "Embarrasssed Defence", you neither admit nor deny the claim....#

Send Drydens a CPR 31.14 request. Demand copies of all the documents they refer to & rely upon to enforce this claim. The Default Notice, the Agreement, Notice of Assignment.....

Defend the claim & have it transferred to your local court. You can then challenge any claim which is excessive & unreasonable. Okay, they may get the CCJ, because you owe the money, but the judge will have to consider your situation. Also, if you are benefits, you are not liable for any court costs.

 

Good Luck

 

 

Debsx

Are there any charges/interest included which can also be challenged.

Unless the agreement includes a Post Judgment Interest Clause, the account should be frozen.

If the court decides that you should pay £xx, aslong as you maintain those payments, they can only apply for a charging order if you fail to maintain those payments.

Respond to everything, challenge them.

[RobinWayRobinme]

Would suggest that if you intend to defend you should be looking at (a) is the agreement enforceable, (b) was the account lawfully terminated (DN etc), and © was the account lawfully assigned prior to the start of proceedings.

R

 

As requested ... not sure if a pdf is the best attachment but it's the best I could do quickly !

 

The reason for asking about defending is that, as far as I am concerned, the Claimant has ignored the OFT guidelines in that the initial communication made no attempt an any sort of conciliation - it was a case of going straight for a Charging Order which, as we all know, can't be done unless a CCJ is in force and has not been complied with ... which is not the case. The specific OFT guideline is under the "False representation of authority and/or legal position" where they state that unfair practice is "falsely implying or stating that action can or will be taken when it legally cannot" ... now I appreciate that this is merely a guideline, but if people don't abide by them, then what is the point of having them ?

 

I accept that I do owe money, and am perfectly willing to repay what I am able to afford, but as the Claimant will not have actually forked out 18k to buy the debt, then I would have thought that the argument of going down the legal route to obtain security for the debt again falls foul of the OFT guideline of "applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual and necessary costs" ... the idea was to ask to Court to determine the "actual" cost of the debt and to make an order based on that - but I would imagine that this is an area similar to bank charges in that the DCA would probably rather not tell what they actually pay for a debt, so I'm not sure how much mileage I'd get out of it. THINK YOU MAY BE UP AGAINST IT WITH THIS ARGUMENT AS IMO OFT GUIDELINES HAVE VERY LITTLE WEIGHT WHEN IN COURT. THE CLAIMANT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO PROVE THE AMOUNT CLAIMED IS CORRECT AND THEY WOULD PROBABLY BE ABLE TO DO SO. THE AMOUNT THEY PAID FOR THE DEBT IS IRRELEVANT

[w401620]

Hi all again,

 

Documents amended/added as requested.

 

Thank you for all your comments - it is a great help to know that you are not alone when trying to fight these battles.

 

The trouble is - much as I would like to get the gloves off and challenge these people, I think that it would be a case of "opening mouth without engaging gear" in that my argument is not that I owe money, but that these people are driving a coach and horses through the OFT's guidelines ... and it is almost with the blessing of the courts as they do not seem to want to stand up to these people.

 

As deb has pointed out, although they may be wrong in what they are doing - and I think that we all agree that they are - the fact that they are likely to get away with it because the courts will allow them to is what I find most annoying. I could "respond to everything, challenge them" as deb suggests below, but I think that this would be a waste of time and effort, as the judge - from what I have read in various posts on here - is more likely to side with the Claimant and issue the judgement, and because I am not likely to be able to pay a large amount each month, he will again probably side with them and allow the Charging Order ball to start rolling - despite the fact this this is not supposed to happen unless I fail to comply with the CCJ ... and this is what I mean about driving coaches through guidelines with the approval of the courts.

 

So I'm not quite sure how to proceed with this. I would like to at least try and put a spoke in the works, but as I have read in a few threads about judges taking a dim view of people doing this, I don't really want to prejudice my case any further by upsetting m'lud !

Image051.pdf

Image052.pdf

[dx100uk]

ok well good news

 

that DN is invalid on dates if it was sent via MBNAs normail UKmail 2nd class system.

 

dx

[RobinWayRobinme]

Statement with DN shows closing arrears £0. This doesn't make sense because if they are saying there are no arrears how can they serve a DN saying arrears of £2161.80

 

Did you receive a NOA? I'd get off a CPR 31.14 request for copy docs they are relying upon ie Credit agreement etc

R

[w401620]

Notice of Assignment attached.

 

Pardon my ignorance - this is all still very new and a bit of a whirl ... CPR31.14 request ?

 

Also, having read many threads recently I do recall seeing mention of invalid Default Notices ... but I can't remember where or the repercussions of this. Would you mind enlightening me on this, please ?

 

Once again - thank you for all your assistance and I do apologise for asking what may be dumb questions.

Image053.pdf

[dx100uk]

a invalid DN will give you the bullet for the gun to get the CCJ set aside.

 

dx

[Dotty50]

Hi W

 

You need to remove your account number!

[Dotty50]

deleted due to duplicate post

[RobinWayRobinme]

Check out the following link for help with 31.14 requests

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html

Notice of Assignment attached.

 

Pardon my ignorance - this is all still very new and a bit of a whirl ... CPR31.14 request ?

 

Also, having read many threads recently I do recall seeing mention of invalid Default Notices ... but I can't remember where or the repercussions of this. Would you mind enlightening me on this, please ?

 

Once again - thank you for all your assistance and I do apologise for asking what may be dumb questions.