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easilymisled

KPR charging order help

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I have an account passed to KPR, they are threatening me with a charging order unless i pay 3% of the balance each month, basically contractual payments.

I'm going through a debt management company, and there is no way i can afford this. if i could afford this i wouldnt need a debt management company!

 

what can i do? at the moment they are the only creditor still adding interest and charges, and these amount to twice what i can afford to pay them every month, i'm going to be paying this back for my entire life at this rate.

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They can demand whatever they like but only a court can make you pay and, even then, it would only make you pay what you can afford. The only way KPR could get a charging order is by taking you to court, getting a CCJ and then you defaulting on the payments.

 

It's all typlical DCA bluster.

 

You should first of all make sure that there is an enforceable debt to collect. If this matter relates to a Consumer Credit Act agreement (a credit card, loan etc but generally not a bank overdraft or mobile phone account) you should use the template in the site's library to request a copy of it. If they fail to send it or it's not properly structures (many aren't) you can place the account in dispute and stop paying them if you want to do so.

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its for a credit card that i defaulted on, i did apply for it a while back, so its worth a try.

my problem was that the charging order costs about 600 in court costs, and that s just adding more years i have to pay them! and after all that i can only pay them what i can afford. This really is placing me and my wife under a lot of stress at the moment.

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did you not read post 2?

 

have you cca'ed these jokers?

 

just remember they are a DCA

 

and have NO LEGAL POWERS

 

just send threat-o-grams

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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I understand that it's stressful but you can and should take control of the situation and not worry unduly.

 

As I said before they can only get a charging order if you default on a ccj.

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ok thanks for your help, I will CCA them tonight.:D

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right i have just had my cca request returned to me on Nationwide headed paper, stating that all 'payments' must include the customer account number and customer name.

 

Surely if i received a letter on KPR headed paper, its logical to may the CCA request out to them?

And its not a payment as such is it???

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so's kpr have fwded the cca onto nationwide [the OC?]

 

did they not write you abou this.?

 

time to fire off the failure to comply

 

or sent the CCa request again.

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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nope didnt get a letter to say anything until i got the one returned on nationwide headed paper.

I will just send the CCA again to Nationwide- i think thats just easiest? unless any-one has a better idea?

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nope they have failed to send the cca to you so send in dispute letter to the dca letter below

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Date:

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. This was signed for as delivered on the **DATE**

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE** (12+2 days after you made the initial request).

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

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Some DCAs use original creditor letterheads; they are usually printed in a colour laser printer and so won't look quite as convincing as the real thing.

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ok this morning i received a threatning letter saying they are taking me to court, and quoting massive fee's for land registry search's and agent fees. but no response to my original cca, where now please??????

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just trying to frighten you

thats all dca's can do

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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agree with dx another frightener..ignore em until their 12 days are up then send account in dispute letter

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Date:

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. This was signed for as delivered on the **DATE**

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE** (12+2 days after you made the initial request).

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

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You could send this as they are threatening Court, amend as necessary and send asap by Recorded Delivery. This letter with their reply, if any, will start your possible defence if it goes to Court:

 

Head the letter with: I ACKNOWLEDGE NO DEBT OWED TO YOU OR ANYONE YOU MAY BE ACTING FOR - SENT BY RECORDED DELIVERY

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

This is in acknowledgement of your letter dated ................and also of .............The contents of which have been duly noted.

Further to you stressing that county courtlink3.gif proceedings will be actioned by yourselves should I fail to make contact/stressing that proccedings are about to be commenced in regard to alleged sums outstanding and alleged owed by me on the above account,I remind you of Civil Procedurelink3.gif rules protocols. Nevertheless in my response to your letter please be advised of the following.

 

 

I put forward that you now have a requirement to provide me with;

 

 

1) A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditionslink3.gif that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. Please note that a "true copy" as defined by the Consumer Credit Act will not be acceptable in this case, and a copy of the actual executed agreement, including signaturelink3.gif, is required.

 

2) All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to

 

1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interestlink3.gif, payments and both the amounts of credit and any repayments made to the account.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations

3. Where there has been any event in the account history over this period that has required manual intervention by any person, disclosure of any indication or notes that have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to the account held by me with........... is required.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditionslink3.gif, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998.

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal datalink3.gif and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I make this request to ensure that each party has equal footings which can allow action to proceed speedily fairly and without undue costs or waste of courts time,as defined within Pre-action Practice Directions -Protocols 4.6 of the Civil Procedures Rules.

I will give you 14 days to respond with the above,failure to comply will result in a complaint being made to the Court./In addition to the foslink3.gif for any breaches of OFT and CCA codes.This includes breaches as a result of initiating a Country Court claim where failing to provide or produce documents make litigation improper..

Specifically this relates to one or any number of the following;

 

* demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* add any further interest or charges to the account.

* pass/sell the account or outstanding balance to any third party.

* register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencieslink3.gif.

* issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Furthermore,I reserve my right to make a copy of this letter available for inspection to the Court and Financial/Consumer regulators should you fail to comply with this request.

I await your response,and should you need further clarification on any of the above points,then I suggest that you direct them to your legal department.

Edited by harrassed senior
ADDITION

Every journey begins with a single step :):)

 

Please note: I have no qualifications in this area - my advice is learned from the wonderful members of this Forum. Thanks to you all for your help.

 

If you have found my post helpful please leave a short message by clicking the star to the left of my profile - Thank You

 

The only person entitled to your Personal Finance details is a Judge not a DCA

 

Move all banking activity to another banking group if you have a dispute - your funds can be used to offset debts within the same group.

Be careful with Banking details (card/account numbers) as these can be used to take unauthorised payments.

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ok guys more help needed please.

 

i have today received 2 letter from nationwide.

 

1st oone dated 26th August- stating that they cannot reply with the written request for a CCA as the written authority does not match their records. Surely this is just another tacttic to avoid sending me an oca?? I sent the CCA letter from here, it contained the Credit Card number, my full name and address, etc, all of which they could have matched my account details from.

 

2nd letter the county court paperwork. crucially dated 19th August. Which shows they issues the CCJ action before responding to my complaint, and secondly they have held onto the paperwork for a very long time, so that i dont have the full 14 days to respond, another tactic to make sure they get their own way i expect.

 

Any help on what to do now please.

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their dedlines are their deadlines..not yours

 

if the wriiten request for a CCA from you does not match what they have on you then write back and say well its not my debt then!!

 

you've sent a CCA request, you've sent a failure to comply letter/account in dispute.

 

next move is theirs...prove the debt is YOURS.

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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guys, ages ago i sent the above letters to Nationwide, the court to defend the claim, and the FOS to complain about Nationwide ignoring my cca request.

 

I have only received a letter from Nationwide acknowledging my complaint, nothing else. Today i have received the forms through from the court to say i didnt reply to the original letter, and i now have a CCJ, what a joke!!

 

What do i do now???

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guys, ages ago i sent the above letters to Nationwide, the court to defend the claim, and the FOS to complain about Nationwide ignoring my cca request.

 

I have only received a letter from Nationwide acknowledging my complaint, nothing else. Today i have received the forms through from the court to say i didnt reply to the original letter, and i now have a CCJ, what a joke!!

 

What do i do now???

 

KPR is Nationwide, they are just trying to confuse you.

 

Did you receive a claim form from the court and they obtained a judgment by default?

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Hi and calm yourself down you can have this judgement set aside but give us more details please.

 

Mr W


Regards..Mr Worried :)

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guys what details did you need please?

 

I angry that i have received today in the post a copy of my original signed application form and a copy of all statements over the years. BUT the letter in response to my complaint is dated the same day as the judgement was issued, thus giving me no right to escalate my complaint. Furthermore Nationwide would have had to instruct the court days before they responded, so that the 2 dates co-incided. I think its also no coincidence that they posted there response 2nd class to ensure i received the judgement 1st.

 

Please can you advise me what steps i need to take to get this judgement set aside?

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i'm going to move this thread to the legal forum as court papers have been received

 

dx

siteteam


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Hi

 

If you have never received a summons to allow defence then as you have been advised to set a side is your next course of action.You make this application via a AN (N244) with a cost and state the reason for your application.

 

Regards

 

Andy


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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andy yes i did receive a summons, which i replied to, with the copies of letters sent to nationwide detailing my complaint.

But when i received the judgement, it said that i had failed to reply to their previous letter, which isnt true.

 

is there anything else i can use to get it set aside please?

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andy yes i did receive a summons, which i replied to,You completed the AoS (Acknowledgment of service) how did you plea? with the copies of letters sent to nationwide detailing my complaint .Did you return it to the Court did you post or do it on line?

But when i received the judgment, it said that i had failed to reply to their previous letter, which isnt true.Was the judgment forthwith how did you respond?

 

is there anything else i can use to get it set aside please?

 

 

Andy


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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