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Advice Needed - Partner Has Not Been Paid In 4 Months

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I am extremely concerned about my partner and would appreciate any advice you can offer on what to do. My partner has been working for the same company for over 18 months. He is on a very high salary of over 80K per year plus bonuses (that have not happened yet). The company is a Ltd company and has a large factory that employs hundreds of people. He is paid by this company but works independently for the boss on a different project - which is a property development. He is registered as an employee and paid by the factory that the boss owns.

 

For the first year, there were no issues with payment of wages but in to January 2010 and his salary was late by one month. This is because the other side of the business "the factory" has serious cash flow issues due to a fire and them having to stop production therefore no money to pay salaries. This was paid in February and all resolved we thought. However, since February he has not been paid (so 4 months and 2 weeks!). His boss claims that they are waiting on further investment to take the property project to the next stage (plus pay everyone's salaries and numerous other service providors) and has been promising on a weekly basis that the investment is 100% coming in any day - it has been confirmed and money is being transferred - and he will be paid "within the next few days, end of the week, next week etc" but it never happens. The boss has also not paid the senior member of staff or his P.A that went on maternity leave in February. The terrible thing is that this boss is extremely wealthy personally!

 

My partner has been extremely reluctant to act as his boss is a bully, has all the power and he is scared he will lose his job and this supposed "great opportunity" if he is not patient and waits for investment. The boss has a way of being really evasive so it is very hard to get a straight answer out of him. We have managed to go a long time without him being paid due to his high salary but 4.2 months later our finances are completely drained and I am in quite severe debt now as well due to having to lend my partner money.

 

The boss keeps saying that it is a matter of days before it is resolved and this is what stops my partner from taking action but I think enough is enough and this has to be dealt with. My partner does not have an official contract. He has a letter of employment and also, a letter validating his salary. The boss has also issued all the tax payments etc - so on my partner's 2009/2010 P60 it states that he has been paid when he has not. I think this will be the case with May and June as well but can't be sure as have not seen this year's P60. This is fraud in my opinion and causes me to worry further about the kind of character his boss is!

 

I am urging my partner to take serious action as I am concerned he will not even be able to sue the boss if he leaves it much longer as it will be invalid - after all - not many people go 4 .2 months without being paid and don't take legal action. As mentioned though, the main reason he has not acted is the promise this will be resolved within days every time he raises it and this has also stopped my partner from looking for other jobs. If he had of known in January that he would not be paid still by now - he would have started huinting but he has invested so much in to this now, he keeps holding out. This is actually a very short winded version and there is many further details but the main principle is that my partner is letting his boss get away with this as he honestly believes that it may work out and also, the opportunity lost is worse than the 4.2 months of no wages so is holding out as long as possible in the hope it will be ok in the end. I personally feel this must be dealt with ASAP and no boss should be allowed to get away with this. I appreciate any suggestions you might have and please ask questions if clarification on something will help you advise. thank you all in advance.

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Hello there and welcome to CAG. We/I love people with good manners. :)

 

I'm not one of the gurus on the forum although we have a few, but going by my life experience I can only agree with you that this sounds very dodgy.

 

For starters, the fire problem. If the boss had proper insurance cover, it should reimburse him for any resulting problems.

 

I hope other employment caggers will comment, but I also feel very uneasy about the way this employer is behaving. I hope people will be along to comment later. I think you may need to act soon, but I hope we can come up with some avenues to pursue.

 

I know that dealing with bullies is hard, but often that's a way for them to cover up what they're doing. If you are inclined, have a look at bullyonline.org that may give you an insight into how these people operate.

 

My best to you both.

 

HB x


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Ring ACAS for advice.


RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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My partner does not have an official contract. He has a letter of employment and also, a letter validating his salary.

 

So that is a contract - although written details are not necessary to establish a contract, the fact that there is evidence of an agreement on salary and confirmation of his job title is ample.

 

The boss has also issued all the tax payments etc - so on my partner's 2009/2010 P60 it states that he has been paid when he has not. I think this will be the case with May and June as well but can't be sure as have not seen this year's P60. This is fraud in my opinion and causes me to worry further about the kind of character his boss is!

 

It is indeed fraud and HMRC would be extremely interested to know about false accounting in matters of taxation. Those figures will no doubt also have been put into the company's accounts for the year end, so if the business has falsified it's accounts, that money has certainly gone somewhere, so if not to your husband, who to I wonder?!

 

I am urging my partner to take serious action as I am concerned he will not even be able to sue the boss if he leaves it much longer as it will be invalid - after all - not many people go 4 .2 months without being paid and don't take legal action. As mentioned though, the main reason he has not acted is the promise this will be resolved within days every time he raises it and this has also stopped my partner from looking for other jobs. If he had of known in January that he would not be paid still by now - he would have started huinting but he has invested so much in to this now, he keeps holding out. This is actually a very short winded version and there is many further details but the main principle is that my partner is letting his boss get away with this as he honestly believes that it may work out and also, the opportunity lost is worse than the 4.2 months of no wages so is holding out as long as possible in the hope it will be ok in the end. I personally feel this must be dealt with ASAP and no boss should be allowed to get away with this. I appreciate any suggestions you might have and please ask questions if clarification on something will help you advise. thank you all in advance.

 

Like it or not, your husband HAS to do something. It sounds as though this company is on very shaky financial ground and he could end up with absolutely nothing. There may not have been adequate insurance to cover the fire damage, money may be in the process of being siphoned off before the business goes to the wall. He is already owed well over £6000 in salary alone, and it could get much worse for both of you - he has accepted a P60 with an incorrect salary stated which could make it harder to deny that you have received the money and he could end up jobless with nothing more than statutory redundancy. He needs to write an immediate Grievance/Letter Before Action stating that despite promises of his salary being paid, nothing has been forthcoming for over 4 months and to date he is owed the sum of £XXXX.XX. He is concerned that in the absence of this money, finances are becoming almost impossible, and further, he is concerned that his P60 states that the money has already been paid when it has not. Give the employer 7 days in which to rectify matters or he will reluctantly be forced to seek the decision of an Employment Tribunal for an Unlawful Deduction from Wages contrary to S.13 of the Employment Rights Act, or through County Court action. There is no way to dress this up politely - business is business!


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Apologies for the late reply - no access to a computer till now...I am really grateful for all your advice and support. What an amazing forum that total strangers should take the time and trouble to offer advice. If this does get resolved and my money woes improve - I will definitely be donating to this website as I think it is just wonderful that something like this exists. Thank you to everyone. Particularly Sidewinder. Thank you so much for all the trouble you have gone to writing such a detailed response.

 

I have not made any progress convincing my partner to deal with this situation head on. As mentioned, he is reluctant to send this grievance letter because it will mean that there is no way forward with his job as his boss will not take kindly to action being threatened even though there is no question he is doing something highly unethical. What I would like to know is if my partner gives it another 2 - 4 weeks before taking action/writing this letter - going to see a lawyer (i.e. he would not have been paid in 6 months by then) will he still have a case to bring to court. I am concerned that if he takes legal action at the 6-month point it will not be possible to prosecute the boss. The boss is established in the UK and can not really disappear - so is this a reason to wait a little longer. Is there a stature of limitations regarding this grievance letter and when this can be dealt with. Please note that my partner has non official emails (through out this 4.5 month period) stating he has not been paid etc. Will this suffice to show that this was raised through out the 6-month period or does he have to write this hard core grievance letter...?

 

I agree with everything said about business being business but sometimes an opportunity has more value than money and that is why he is holding off. Also, as he will not be working under this boss forever if his position is intact (and he gets paid).

 

The boss is a bully and plays a lot of mind games. The problem is that this might suddenly get resolved (as said, the job is actually more valuable to my partner than the money he is owed and please note that the salary owed is many times in excess of the amount sidewinder has calculated) - so if my partner has written this letter and then gets paid - he will probably be out of a job and that would be worse for him than not being paid but retaining his job (assuming he is paid in the future).

 

I am so concerned at this stage that this is really beginning to destroy my sanity due to the enormous strain on both our finances and our emotional health and I think I would be able to deal with it better if I knew we can take action later rather than sooner. I know most people deal with things fast and if I could take this out of my partners hands and write the letter myself since I would not do this to my partner and can not make him do it - to some extent my hands are tied... I just do not know what to do...

 

Once again, thank you for your help and any advice regarding time scale and dealing with these things would be much appreciated.

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Apologies for the late reply - no access to a computer till now...I am really grateful for all your advice and support. What an amazing forum that total strangers should take the time and trouble to offer advice. If this does get resolved and my money woes improve - I will definitely be donating to this website as I think it is just wonderful that something like this exists. Thank you to everyone. Particularly Sidewinder. Thank you so much for all the trouble you have gone to writing such a detailed response.

 

I have not made any progress convincing my partner to deal with this situation head on. As mentioned, he is reluctant to send this grievance letter because it will mean that there is no way forward with his job as his boss will not take kindly to action being threatened even though there is no question he is doing something highly unethical. What I would like to know is if my partner gives it another 2 - 4 weeks before taking action/writing this letter - going to see a lawyer (i.e. he would not have been paid in 6 months by then) will he still have a case to bring to court. I am concerned that if he takes legal action at the 6-month point it will not be possible to prosecute the boss. The boss is established in the UK and can not really disappear - so is this a reason to wait a little longer. Is there a stature of limitations regarding this grievance letter and when this can be dealt with. Please note that my partner has non official emails (through out this 4.5 month period) stating he has not been paid etc. Will this suffice to show that this was raised through out the 6-month period or does he have to write this hard core grievance letter...?

 

The tone of any letter is entirely up to your husband, so long as it contains the details of what he thinks he is owed, and what he is prepared to do if the employer does not pay it to him. A quiet chat is a good first step, but it appears that this hasn't worked so far. If it were to end up with legal action, it would add much greater weight if your husband could demonstrate that he had taken all reasonable steps to resolve the issue informally, or that the employer had failed to respond adequately to a formally raised grievance. I quite understand the difficulty involved.

 

I agree with everything said about business being business but sometimes an opportunity has more value than money and that is why he is holding off. Also, as he will not be working under this boss forever if his position is intact (and he gets paid).

 

The boss is a bully and plays a lot of mind games. The problem is that this might suddenly get resolved (as said, the job is actually more valuable to my partner than the money he is owed and please note that the salary owed is many times in excess of the amount sidewinder has calculated)

 

Whoops - of course it is - I think that figure was meant to have a '2' in front of it!

 

- so if my partner has written this letter and then gets paid - he will probably be out of a job and that would be worse for him than not being paid but retaining his job (assuming he is paid in the future).

 

I am so concerned at this stage that this is really beginning to destroy my sanity due to the enormous strain on both our finances and our emotional health and I think I would be able to deal with it better if I knew we can take action later rather than sooner. I know most people deal with things fast and if I could take this out of my partners hands and write the letter myself since I would not do this to my partner and can not make him do it - to some extent my hands are tied... I just do not know what to do...

 

Once again, thank you for your help and any advice regarding time scale and dealing with these things would be much appreciated.

 

Time limits are fairly strict for action through a Tribunal (normally three months from the date of the event, but this can be extended to six months in certain circumstances - and if it can be shown that efforts were made in the first three months to deal with the problem, this may well be one of those cases. However, as a breach of contract claim, this could also be dealt with through Court action - you would be entitled then to claim interest and costs, and there is a six year time limit on claims for this. That may well set your mind at rest on that point at least.

 

I really hope that this gets sorted out soon for you as I understand what strain you must both be under.


Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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I am extremely concerned about my partner and would appreciate any advice you can offer on what to do. My partner has been working for the same company for over 18 months. He is on a very high salary of over 80K per year plus bonuses (that have not happened yet). The company is a Ltd company and has a large factory that employs hundreds of people. He is paid by this company but works independently for the boss on a different project - which is a property development. He is registered as an employee and paid by the factory that the boss owns.

 

For the first year, there were no issues with payment of wages but in to January 2010 and his salary was late by one month. This is because the other side of the business "the factory" has serious cash flow issues due to a fire and them having to stop production therefore no money to pay salaries. This was paid in February and all resolved we thought. However, since February he has not been paid (so 4 months and 2 weeks!). His boss claims that they are waiting on further investment to take the property project to the next stage (plus pay everyone's salaries and numerous other service providors) and has been promising on a weekly basis that the investment is 100% coming in any day - it has been confirmed and money is being transferred - and he will be paid "within the next few days, end of the week, next week etc" but it never happens. The boss has also not paid the senior member of staff or his P.A that went on maternity leave in February. The terrible thing is that this boss is extremely wealthy personally!

 

My partner has been extremely reluctant to act as his boss is a bully, has all the power and he is scared he will lose his job and this supposed "great opportunity" if he is not patient and waits for investment. The boss has a way of being really evasive so it is very hard to get a straight answer out of him. We have managed to go a long time without him being paid due to his high salary but 4.2 months later our finances are completely drained and I am in quite severe debt now as well due to having to lend my partner money.

 

The boss keeps saying that it is a matter of days before it is resolved and this is what stops my partner from taking action but I think enough is enough and this has to be dealt with. My partner does not have an official contract. He has a letter of employment and also, a letter validating his salary. The boss has also issued all the tax payments etc - so on my partner's 2009/2010 P60 it states that he has been paid when he has not. I think this will be the case with May and June as well but can't be sure as have not seen this year's P60. This is fraud in my opinion and causes me to worry further about the kind of character his boss is!

 

I am urging my partner to take serious action as I am concerned he will not even be able to sue the boss if he leaves it much longer as it will be invalid - after all - not many people go 4 .2 months without being paid and don't take legal action. As mentioned though, the main reason he has not acted is the promise this will be resolved within days every time he raises it and this has also stopped my partner from looking for other jobs. If he had of known in January that he would not be paid still by now - he would have started huinting but he has invested so much in to this now, he keeps holding out. This is actually a very short winded version and there is many further details but the main principle is that my partner is letting his boss get away with this as he honestly believes that it may work out and also, the opportunity lost is worse than the 4.2 months of no wages so is holding out as long as possible in the hope it will be ok in the end. I personally feel this must be dealt with ASAP and no boss should be allowed to get away with this. I appreciate any suggestions you might have and please ask questions if clarification on something will help you advise. thank you all in advance.

 

Hi,

 

(a) What kind of contract does your husband work under?

(b) Does he have a copy of his contract?

© What does the wages/salaries clause state?


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Just a couple of things which may help. The fact that the employer has produced a P60 showing the pay and tax deduction triggers 2 things . Firstly it is their acknowledgement of the pay figure, so you can use this as proof in court - they would have to prove the money hadn't been paid if they chose to defend. Secondly they are stating the amount of tax and National Insurance due to HM Revenue & Customs - this would have to be paid irrespective of whether the pay had been paid to your partner. If it hasn't been there are then 2 debts due. If the wages can't be paid it also begs the question what else do they owe? Such as VAT; other unpaid PAYE; corporation (company ) tax; the bank!

I would suggest you check this website to see if the comapny has any CCJs - you may need to check the company's registered office address on Companies house website. If there are outstanding CCJs I suggest you get your court action going quickly as the company may be on the way down. www.trustonline.org.uk .

 

The other thing your partner & anyone else who hasn't been paid could consider is making a complaint to HMRC's National Minimum Wage investigators that they haven't been paid Minimum Wage for the period up to now. (see HMRC.gov.uk)

 

I have to say I would be concerned about anyone in a company working on what seems to be almost a private project for the director - especially if it is a completely different type of business. The whole things seems a bit strange to say the least.

I agree with the other posts that suggest quick, firm, action - but you may need to be ready to deal with a liquidator or receiver if the comapony does go down.

Edited by Elmo South
awful spelling & grammer!!

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Thank you Elmo South. I am going to look at the website that you have suggested and pass on your advice to my partner. Thank you again.

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Some good points on this thread, but I don't think I have seen this one yet:

 

1st rule of taking anyone to court is do they have any money with which to satisfy and judgment you may get?

 

If the answer to this is no (i.e. if the company has huge debts and is on the brink of going out of business) then all you may end up with is an unenforcable paper judgement.

 

It would seem as though his contract of employment is with the company. As a result it is highly unlikely he could go against the director as an individual for any monies owed.

Edited by R&J

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Good point about the company not having any money & not getting judgement satisfied, R & J.

BUT with regard to the director - if he was aware that the comapny could not pay wages & they keep trading he commits an offence of trading whilst insolvent & the Official Receiver can use insolvency legislation to vest the debts of the company on the director in some circumstances.

Additionally, if he is deliberately not paying the wages & the employee is still working on the project, is there a potential for the employee to report to the police that the director is obtaining services by deception (a criminal offence)? Even if its dodgy ground, might not a warning to the director serve some purpose.

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