£8,600 of charges in 42 months

[Ant84]

Preliminary letter sent to Mr John Cunanne at Borehamwood asking for refund of charges to the amount of £13,591.19. Received by them on 20th July. Does the 14 day deadline start when I sent the letter or when they received it?

[thunderpuss2k]

From when they receive it. Did you send it recorded?

[Ant84]

From when they receive it. Did you send it recorded?

 

Yes, sent by recorded delivery. Checked the Royal Mail website this morning and it was received by Natwest on 20th July.

 

I'm very excited about this, the money will come in very handy for my new car!

[thunderpuss2k]

OK, so that'll be 34th July

 

(moves the beads on the abacus)

 

3rd August. Of course if they write back and say they're not going to do anything about it, you can move straight to the LBA stage. And if they reply to that saying 'this is our final response on this matter, sod off', again the timeline moves. But.. only if you feel comfortable doing this. Otherwise wait til the 14 + 14 expires.

[Ant84]

OK, so that'll be 34th July

 

(moves the beads on the abacus)

 

3rd August. Of course if they write back and say they're not going to do anything about it, you can move straight to the LBA stage. And if they reply to that saying 'this is our final response on this matter, sod off', again the timeline moves. But.. only if you feel comfortable doing this. Otherwise wait til the 14 + 14 expires.

 

I'm fully expecting the standard letters they send out, in which case I'll just move straight onto the next step. With the knowledge I can find and people I can take advice from here, I'm not afraid of them.

 

What sort of timescale do you think I'll be looking at, on average, once those 28 days have expired and I have started the claim?

[thunderpuss2k]

Depends. Five days to receive the claim, then they'll probably acknowledge it giving them 28 days to defend. Once the defence goes in it can be a couple of months before a trial, or might be quicker. All depends on how long they chose to drag it out for. On a positive note, interest at 8% a year accrues from the date of each charge to the date of the claim, then at a daily rate of the equivalent of 8% but for a day, if that makes sense. So therefore it's in the banks interest to settle as quick as possible as the interest on a claim of your size will certainly clock up quick.

[formula6]

Hi Ant84

 

Im in a very similar position to you. Ive just sent them a approach for repayment letter for £9,206.00 (£5,279.00 for business & £3,927.00 for personal) - not including interest. All this in just over 4yrs.

 

Let me know how you get on because Im now worried that I wont be able to claim back my business costs!

 

Just out of interest Ive found this :NatWest - Financing - Invoice Finance re; your earlier post. Hope it helps.

 

Kevin

[Ant84]

Hi Ant84

 

Im in a very similar position to you. Ive just sent them a approach for repayment letter for £9,206.00 (£5,279.00 for business & £3,927.00 for personal) - not including interest. All this in just over 4yrs.

 

Let me know how you get on because Im now worried that I wont be able to claim back my business costs!

 

Just out of interest Ive found this :NatWest - Financing - Invoice Finance re; your earlier post. Hope it helps.

 

Kevin

 

Thanks for that link, Kevin. Some useful information on there.

 

Why are you worried that you won't be able to claim back your business costs? If it's anything to do with what our Natwest business manager said, then I really wouldn't worry if I were you! He's obviously just trying to scare me off.

 

Best of luck with your claim. Not that you'll need it

 

Anthony.

[Ant84]

*UPDATE*

 

Just received the standard letter from the infamous Mr Higley, basically telling me to get lost and that they won't be refunding my charges. At least they're not taking their time over it and now I can get straight to the next step of the LBA.

 

LBA will be sent in this afternoon's post.

[formula6]

Hi Antony

 

I was just worried because I heard that business costs cannot be claimed back unless via the ombudsman, and even then it would only be for a max of £1,500.00. Do you know anything about this at all? should I still go for all costs (business and personal)?

 

I'm new to all this and find it a little confusing!

 

Kevin

[Ant84]

Hi Antony

 

I was just worried because I heard that business costs cannot be claimed back unless via the ombudsman, and even then it would only be for a max of £1,500.00. Do you know anything about this at all? should I still go for all costs (business and personal)?

 

I'm new to all this and find it a little confusing!

 

Kevin

 

Hi Kevin,

 

There are people on this site who know much, much more than me about claiming charges back, and they think the £1,500 from the Ombudsman suggestion is rubbish.

 

I was sceptical of going for all my charges back in one go at first, but the banks seem completely unwilling to go to court at all. My advice to you would be to press ahead with your claims and not to worry about anything. It's you that holds the aces here.

 

Best of luck.

 

Anthony.

[formula6]

Hi Antony

 

Its good to hear your type of support - you make it all sound so easy! I just wish there was someone out there that has been in the same sort of boat as us, who has got there money back successfully.

 

I would then think that if they can do it - so can I :grin:

[Ant84]

*UPDATE*

 

Sent my LBA the other day and got this reply in the post today...

_____________________________________________________________________

 

Dear 'Ant84',

 

Thank you for your further (undated) letter received here yesterday.

 

I see that you have again claimed that the bank is acting as your fiduciary, which is not the case. If your claim is based on this premise, I can only recommend that you seek separate legal advice. It is also relevant for me to point out that the Office of Fair Trading's investigation didn't extend to business banking facilities. It was directed solely at personal credit card administration charges.

 

That apart, I am sorry that we have reached this position but I regret that there is little that I can add constructively to my last letter and I note your proposed course of action. I have alerted our lawyers and litigation department accordingly. May I please remind you that the address to use when initiating legal documents is that of our Registered Office at 135 Bishopsgate, London EC2M 3UR.

 

Thank you for letting me know of your intentions.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Stuart Higley.

_____________________________________________________________________

 

What do people make of that? Does it seem like a pretty standard response from Natwest? There are still 12 days to go before the 14 days expires, what should I do?

 

Cheers in advance.

 

Anthony.

[thunderpuss2k]

Looks like a standard response to me, ableit a rather patronising one. I'd keep going with your timetable, and as soon as the 14 days are up move to the next stage - ie Moneyclaim.

 

Whether the OFT's investigation related to business banking or not, and whether it was credit cards or not, the same fact still remains that you have asked them to explain their costs, in order to show that these aren't penalties. They haven't, so at this stage it is a penalty - and therefore irrecoverable under law. You know the rest of the details I'm sure so I won't bore you with them

 

Keep going.. they're assuming your threat of legal action was just that - a threat. They'll take it a whole lot more seriously when a claim lands on their desk.

 

Good luck, keep us posted!

[Ant84]

Can someone please give me a quick breakdown of what costs I will incur to initiate my claim? Need to get it sorted out ready to proceed at the 14 day deadline.

 

Should I respond to Natwest's letter and get them to confirm that they will not be repaying the money before I commence legal action?

 

Cheers in advance.

 

Anthony.

[thunderpuss2k]

Can someone please give me a quick breakdown of what costs I will incur to initiate my claim? Need to get it sorted out ready to proceed at the 14 day deadline.

 

£250 for the actual claim, if it gets to the stage where you need to submit an allocation questionnaire that'll cost another £100.

 

Then, if it actually gets to trial (highly unlikely), and assuming it gets allocated to the fast track, there'll be a £275 trial fee.

 

Should I respond to NatWest's letter and get them to confirm that they will not be repaying the money before I commence legal action?

 

Wouldn't bother. You sent the 14 day letter, they wrote back and said sod off, and said they were expecting your claim - so you've covered your actions as far as you can.

[Ant84]

Thanks thunderpuss, wasn't expecting a reply that fast!

 

So, I'll need the £250 to begin the claim. Roughly how long after that will I need another £100 for the allocation?

 

Cheers.

[thunderpuss2k]

I'd say tops of a month, might be sooner. From the date of service they've got 14 days to either file a defence or an acknowledgement of service. The AOS gives them an additional 14 days to file a defence. If a defence is filed, both sides will be asked to fill out allocation questionnaires, that's where the £100 comes in.

 

After that, the District Judge considers the allocation questionnaires, and sometimes there's an allocation hearing. Otherwise, it gets allocated to the relevent track (in your case it should be fast track as it's under £15k and over the small claims limit), then it'll start moving towards trial.

 

Of course each stage that's reached means more legal costs for the other side - as you've not got solicitors bills to foot that means your costs won't be clocking up. However the banks costs will - and at some point they'll take a decision on settling out of court, as their mounting costs would have exceeded your original claim.

[Ant84]

It's time to put my claim in tomorrow! Can't wait!

 

I could do with a little help with the actual claim part. If I use Moneyclaim, then I presume I'll need an amended version of the text in the FAQ, since I am a business account customer, not a current account holder?

 

I've also already added the 8% APR interest onto my preliminary and LBA letters, when I shouldn't have. I'm not too worried about that, it makes no difference in my opinion, the claim amount is still the same in the end.

[lisamellor]

hi ant, been reading your thread and wanted to wish you good luck...not that its needed!! lisaxx

[Ant84]

Hey Lisa, thanks for your support! I'll keep everyone updated!

[Ant84]

Anyone with a bit of advice Re: Moneyclaim?

[thunderpuss2k]

Right then. Sorry for the delay, been a bit sidetracked with a few other things.

 

The claimant needs to be the Limited Company name. If it's a sole trader, you'd be Mr Ant84 t/a XY & Z - if you get my drift. Partnerships, god knows as I've never been involved in one (and would rather not as they're always prone to arguments, but that's just my 10p worth!)

 

Anyway.. try this for size. God knows whether it's gonna fit, but sure you can jiggle it.

 

The claimant has a bank account with XYZ bank ([sORT CODE][ACCOUNT NUMBER]) conducted on their standard terms and conditions. The claimant claiming return of money taken by the defendant in way of charges between [sTART DATE] and [END DATE] totalling [£XXXX.XX]. These charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforcable as they are contrary to common law. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s4. In the event the charges are not a

penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s15. I have repeatedly asked the bank to justify their charges but they have declined to do so. I also claim interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from [sTART DATE] to [END DATE] of [£INTEREST AMOUNT] and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of [£DAILY RATE]

 

I've taken out the bit about the 'Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999' as you're not a consumer, you're a company.

 

Any thoughts or feedback appreciated.. I've set the ball rolling, it's up to everyone else to add to it now

[Ant84]

Thanks Thunderpuss, we are a (dreaded) partnership, so not sure if that would affect matters or not.

 

Also, how do I work out what the daily rate of interest is at the end?

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[thunderpuss2k]

Hmm ok, that's when it starts getting tricky. Is it a limited liability partnership (LLP)?

 

Daily interest, easy enough. Total charges (not including interest or court fees etc) multipled by 0.00022.