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Sarah1234

Summons for using expired bus pass

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I have to go to court next week and have a few questions, I'd be really grateful if anyone can help with any of them.

 

Background: Last February, I used the bus for the first time in a couple of weeks and, on 'autopilot', got my pass out for use when getting on the bus (I used to use the bus every day so had a monthly bus pass, but at the end of January I switched to cycling so didn't renew my pass). The driver confiscated the pass without a word, and I paid the fare and got on the bus, thinking that was the end of it. Recently I received a summons to the magistrates court for the charge of 'use an expired ticket' (there were other syntactical issues in the letter but nothing that seriously marred understanding).

 

I have plead guilty on the plea form and sent it off, since I doubt that auto-pilot counts as a reasonable cause, and I have to fill in a form with my income/expenditure, apparently to ensure I am not fined more than I can pay. I have a number of questions about this I can't seem to find answers to:

 

· Is this a criminal or a civil offence?

· Is there any chance of being ‘let off with a warning’ or will I defiantly be found guilty and have a record?

· What kind of record will I have afterwards, and for how long?

· Under what circumstances will the record come up? Eg:

 

o CRB disclosure/enhanced disclosure?

o Do I have to tick the box on application forms asking if I’ve been convicted of a criminal offence? [Can I legally say ‘no, I haven’t’ in this kind of situation?]

o Who will have access to the record?

o If it comes up in searches/disclosures/whatever, will it say exactly what it was for or will it just say that I was convicted of the offence?

· Will my employer be contacted about this at any point? [i have to put my employer details on the income/expenditure form.]

· Will my landlord be contacted?

· Will anyone other than me/the prosecuting party be contacted about it?

· What databases/records/whatever will be accessed by the court?

· Will I definitely just have to pay a fine (as oppose to community service or something)?

· Is there a standard/minimum/maximum fine for this offence in the Merseyside area? [if so, any idea what it is?]

 

· Also, any idea what the layout of the courtroom will be (ie will it be like a TV type courtroom or more informal like just sitting around a table)?

If anyone can give the answer to even one of these questions that would be fantastic. Obviously I'm really worried that I'm going to have a criminal record, that my employer will find out and so on and it will cause issues in my future life. Thanks in advance.

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Hi Sarah

 

Welcome To CAG

 

I'm not sure why you pleaded guilty. The fact is that you boarded the bus having paid the correct fare. Yes the Bus Pass was out of date. It would be a different case if you boarded the Bus with the out of date Bus Pass.

 

Anyway, you come to the right place. Others will advise shortly, I still think you should plead not guilty as their was no attempt to cheat the system.

 

Charge of 'use of an expired ticket', you didn't use it.

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Hi Sarah

 

Welcome To CAG

 

I'm not sure why you pleaded guilty. The fact is that you boarded the bus having paid the correct fare. Yes the Bus Pass was out of date. It would be a different case if you boarded the Bus with the out of date Bus Pass.

 

Anyway, you come to the right place. Others will advise shortly, I still think you should plead not guilty as their was no attempt to cheat the system.

 

Charge of 'use of an expired ticket', you didn't use it.

It would appear that the pass was confiscated after Sarah had attempted to use it...Having said, that, the fare was still paid for eventually, so at best the bus company have got intention to avoid payment of the fare, even though said fare was paid anyway...

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Sarah forgot to renew her pass, that is easily done, I've done it on many occasions in the past. This is just the bus company profiteering at Sarah's expense.

 

It would appear that the pass was confiscated after Sarah had attempted to use it...Having said, that, the fare was still paid for eventually, so at best the bus company have got intention to avoid payment of the fare, even though said fare was paid anyway...

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Sarah forgot to renew her pass, that is easily done, I've done it on many occasions in the past. This is just the bus company profiteering at Sarah's expense.

That might well be the case. But what if Sarah knew exactly what she was doing? (Not suggesting she was aware, but I'm sure you can appreciate, we see this all the time). The bottom line is, the onus is on the passenger to have the right ticket for their journey.

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Sarah forgot to renew her pass, that is easily done, I've done it on many occasions in the past. This is just the bus company profiteering at Sarah's expense.

 

Actually I think you will find that non-cps prosecutions usually run at a loss & are subsidised by fare paying passengers.

Only about 30% of fines imposed at magistrates courts are even collected.

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Hi Sarah

 

Welcome To CAG

 

I'm not sure why you pleaded guilty. The fact is that you boarded the bus having paid the correct fare. Yes the Bus Pass was out of date. It would be a different case if you boarded the Bus with the out of date Bus Pass.

 

Err, she did!

 

Anyway, you come to the right place. Others will advise shortly, I still think you should plead not guilty as their was no attempt to cheat the system.

 

Charge of 'use of an expired ticket', you didn't use it.

 

But she attempted to by showing it to the driver (all be it in error) so guilty is the correct plea. Don't forget that most buses have CCTV so if she had pleaded 'not guilty' and the CCTV footage was produced then her fine/punishment would be greater. The court will be more leanient to a guilty plea. Personally, i'm very suprised that thie is being prosecuted unless the bus co have some sort of policy where by every one in so many hundred gets done. I would advise the OP to write a grovelling letter to the bus co indicating that it was a genuine mistake and would they drop the charge.

 

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The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

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Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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If thats the case, she should of incurred a Penalty Charge. But as I said a simple mistake, If she pressed the out of date pass against the reader near the auto barriers at an underground station, would she still get a summons? A big fat 'No'.

 

Err, she did!

 

But she attempted to by showing it to the driver (all be it in error) so guilty is the correct plea. Don't forget that most buses have CCTV so if she had pleaded 'not guilty' and the CCTV footage was produced then her fine/punishment would be greater. The court will be more leanient to a guilty plea. Personally, i'm very suprised that thie is being prosecuted unless the bus co have some sort of policy where by every one in so many hundred gets done. I would advise the OP to write a grovelling letter to the bus co indicating that it was a genuine mistake and would they drop the charge.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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I agree with you Rebel that taking this to court is very much over the top. Normally, this only happens to persistant offenders. The penalty that the OP has suffered so far is the loss of her pass. However, which ever way to paint it she was technically at fault.

 

As I said previously, the OP may as well write to the bus co and offer to shine some shoes or somthing. It may work.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.


Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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If thats the case, she should of incurred a Penalty Charge. But as I said a simple mistake, If she pressed the out of date pass against the reader near the auto barriers at an underground station, would she still get a summons? A big fat 'No'.

In your opinion.

 

Yes Penalty Fares (PF) are there for this very reason (supposed unintentional ticket irregularities), but the company is under no obligation to issue a PF. It being the 1st offence is irrelevant.

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'If she pressed the out of date pass against the reader near the auto barriers at an underground station, would she still get a summons? A big fat 'No'.' ?

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'If she pressed the out of date pass against the reader near the auto barriers at an underground station, would she still get a summons? A big fat 'No'.' ?

 

And the relevence of this is...?

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.


Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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And the relevence of this is...?

Exactly.

 

And in answer to that question. Quite possibly. It's more blatent if nothing else at a tube station barrierline. Are we to assume the barriers realised it was out of date and didn't open? Ordinarily, I'd say that one would have more chance of being prosecuted at the barrierline, but I'm not too familiar with the buses.

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