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Goldfish/Barclaycard - advice required please


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Hi Guys

I have been trying to help a little old lady with her debt problems. She has been given bucket loads of credit cards with no hope of repaying. She does own her small terrace house and no doubt the banks will be more than happy to repossess - so they're alright then. I think they have behaved shamefully. She also suffers ill health which the stress is making much worse.

 

Anyway, one of the credit cards was taken out with Goldfish which has metamorphosised in to BarclayCard through several transformations. BarclayCard haven't a hope of finding the original agreement given the number of times ownership has changed hands. Indeed, all BarclayCard have done is provide their current terms and conditions. So I hoped this might be one that we could win.

I have been told though that this case can not go to Court as the original agreement hasn't been supplied. How can this be so ?? Surely if the bank doesn't even know what was in the terms and conditions of the original agreement it cannot show that all CCA requirements have been complied with. So how can the agreement be enforceable ? If this is the position, why would any bank provide the original agreement ?

I am fairly new to this so I may be missing something. But this is a great site and I'm sure (or hope !) that this isn't a new problem.

If indeed it cannot go to Court - what are the other options ?

Sorry to be a pest but all comments would be very gratefully received !!

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Hi Guys

I have been trying to help a little old lady with her debt problems. She has been given bucket loads of credit cards with no hope of repaying. She does own her small terrace house and no doubt the banks will be more than happy to repossess - so they're alright then. I think they have behaved shamefully. She also suffers ill health which the stress is making much worse.

 

Anyway, one of the credit cards was taken out with Goldfish which has metamorphosised in to BarclayCard through several transformations. BarclayCard haven't a hope of finding the original agreement given the number of times ownership has changed hands. Indeed, all BarclayCard have done is provide their current terms and conditions. So I hoped this might be one that we could win.

I have been told though that this case can not go to Court as the original agreement hasn't been supplied. How can this be so ?? Surely if the bank doesn't even know what was in the terms and conditions of the original agreement it cannot show that all CCA requirements have been complied with. So how can the agreement be enforceable ? If this is the position, why would any bank provide the original agreement ?

I am fairly new to this so I may be missing something. But this is a great site and I'm sure (or hope !) that this isn't a new problem.

If indeed it cannot go to Court - what are the other options ?

Sorry to be a pest but all comments would be very gratefully received !!

Am i right in thinking you want to take them to court ? this would be unwise as the burden of proof would be on you . Be aware when asking for original agreement they are under no obligation to supply you with a copy of your executed agreement, only later in pre action really would you be likely to have the smallest chance at seeing these . Be aware of the difference between copy of original agreement and copy of executed agreement as only executed agreement will contain signiturs . Remember more than one way to skin a cat default notices can be more affective in winning a case if incorrectly issued . Always check advice given as even with best intents it can be wrong you really need to start a thread,post up copies of documents minus personal details . Someone with more posts under there belt will be along to comment soon i'm sure . of to work now . Hey whats happened to Cars avatar
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they dont have a leg to stand on.

 

might be an idea for this one to start a thread in the barclaycard forum.

 

what you have got is the typical response from BC, they think they are above the CCA rules.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Guys

I have been trying to help a little old lady with her debt problems. She has been given bucket loads of credit cards with no hope of repaying.

 

She does own her small terrace house and no doubt the banks will be more than happy to repossess - so they're alright then. I think they have behaved shamefully.

 

She also suffers ill health which the stress is making much worse.

 

Anyway, one of the credit cards was taken out with Goldfish which has metamorphosised in to BarclayCard through several transformations. BarclayCard haven't a hope of finding the original agreement given the number of times ownership has changed hands. Indeed, all BarclayCard have done is provide their current terms and conditions. So I hoped this might be one that we could win.

 

I have been told though that this case can not go to Court as the original agreement hasn't been supplied. How can this be so ?? Surely if the bank doesn't even know what was in the terms and conditions of the original agreement it cannot show that all CCA requirements have been complied with. So how can the agreement be enforceable ?

 

If this is the position, why would any bank provide the original agreement ?

 

I am fairly new to this so I may be missing something. But this is a great site and I'm sure (or hope !) that this isn't a new problem.

If indeed it cannot go to Court - what are the other options ?

Sorry to be a pest but all comments would be very gratefully received !!

 

Welcome to CAG, ToxicWaste.

 

Sadly, no this is not a unique situation, fortunately there are lots of answers:)

 

Creditors are using recent decisions by judges to try and persuade people that all they have to produce in order to enforce a debt is a couple of scrappy pages of T&Cs which in some instance bear no relationship to any agreement that may or may not have been entered into.

 

It is true that they do not have to provide a copy of the original document in response to a s78 (CCA1974) request. But they will require the original should they wish to go to court.

 

A recent decision by a Judge (I will find the link to the decision and post it here for you ) also clarified in the Banks' favour that "enforcement" ie writing letters, telephoning, reporting to Credit Reference Agencies, isnt actually enforcement :eek: and as such the general harassment will continue if you either dont pay or have attempted to make an offer of reduced payments.

 

The Judge stopped short of defining what did constitute "enforcement"

 

There are guidelines set out by the OFT in respect of debt collection activities and one of them is to take into consideration the health/circumstances of the account holder.

 

You should be able to use this to your advantage in the circumstances you advise with your elderly friend.

 

Sadly, the fact that she owns her own property makes her a prime target as the creditor will be aware of this. So you need to keep on top of things.

 

If B/card or any of its agents ie Mercers or Calders (wholly owned subsidiaries of Barclays Bank) are telephoning your friend she should refuse to go through any security questions, advise that anything they wish to say to her should be said in a letter. From now on all communication should be by letter. This protects her should litigation ever be considered.

 

It is likely that kneejerk reaction letters will be sent out. Brightly coloured, capitalised letters, claiming that she has just "48 Hours Notice" to respond. You will find these time sensitive letters have been sent using 2nd class or UK Mail services and the deadline will already have passed.

 

Letters claiming that Debt Collectors "may" be calling. This generally means that they will be telephoning. There have been cases where someone has visited a home. You just politely ask them to go away. They are not permitted to visit without your permission. I doubt that permission will be given. :)

 

I will just go and find some useful links for you. However, do have a read round other threads and you will get a sense of how these companies operate and how to respond.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

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4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

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2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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they dont have a leg to stand on.

 

might be an idea for this one to start a thread in the barclaycard forum.

 

what you have got is the typical response from BC, they think they are above the CCA rules.

 

dx

 

dx, do you think it would attract more attention there ? If so, then of course I will rehouse :D

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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You don't want to take them to court - if a judge rules in their favour your lady will be out of her house quicker than you can blink - and she will be landed with a bill for thousands in costs. What you want to do is prevent them taking HER to court.

 

Firstly, get copies of all the credit agreements to see if they are enforceable. Start a new thread for each card so they don't get confused.

 

CCA request letter

 

Enclose a £1 postal order with each one. Tell her to print, not sign, her name at the bottom of each letter. They have (12+2for admin days) to reply. If they don't reply in that time, you can put the account in dispute - there is a template. Scan them, covering over personal deatils, and post them on here so we can advise on their enforceability.

 

She can only pay what she can afford, even it is only £1 per week. If any do take her to court, the court will not order her to pay more than she can afford.

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[attach]18524[/attach]

 

Be sure to note points: 95 - 105, 112, 116 and the concusions

 

 

Take note of the points as advised by vint1954

 

As pinky has advised, you should not be making any move to take them to court as the proof will be for you to establish. The above judgement was a classic example. The points to note are those which was all that was good that came out of this particular case.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Take note of the points as advised by vint1954

 

As pinky has advised, you should not be making any move to take them to court as the proof will be for you to establish. The above judgement was a classic example. The points to note are those which was all that was good that came out of this particular case.

They are bullies, if you look in harasment libary letters will be there to sent something along the lines of " i revoke any lawfull right you or your associates may think they have to visit my property ". If a default notice recieved from mercers it will be worth digging it out to look at they arn't to bright and pretty toothless really, but all the same frightening to a little old lady on her own . Pinky who posted above is well up on DN's .
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Thanks for your help so far guys - it is much appreciated. The consensus is that going to Court isn't exactly a sensible option. But the comment has been made that 'they don't have a leg to stand on'. I can divert all the threats and harassment and deal with this.

So what would be the best alternative route given that BarclayCard won't be able to find either the original agreement or executed agreement ?

Is it best to go the default notice route? If so, how best to go about this ?

Thanks

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Hi Toxicwaste

 

Another thing you might want to checkout,

Are there any Penalty Charges or PPI Charges on the account?

Has she been mis-sold PPI?

 

These can be claimed back with contractual interest.

It could amount to quite a bit. If they've given her credit like confetti,

they may well of mis-sold her PPI.

 

You can get hold of statements. Everything you need is on this site

Template letters plus spreadsheets.

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Thank you to all those who responded to the S.O.S :D

 

Sadly, I cant blob you all.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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