Help Needed ASAP re Parking Fine

[littleladyellz]

Hiya Guys

I've not come on here for a bit but I really need some help re a parking fine.

I got a parking fine for parking on a single yellow. My friend who is always on the moneysavingexpert forums told me to dispute and told me what to dispute under because on the website for Martin Lewis it mentioned how to get out of them.

Well I tried and they declined so I challenged again and thought I cant be bothered anymore so I will pay £35 well I went to pay and it said £70 so I emailed them. They are now saying tough we can make you pay £70.00.

I will copy the email correspondence so that you can see what has happened so far and who said what and tell me whether I've messed up and have to cough up £70 or whether I should continue to fight.

Thanks

 

Dear Mrs Ryder-Ellis

 

Thank you for your email.

 

We issued a PCN on 10 June 2010 and received a challenge from you 11 June 2010.

We responded enforcing the the PCN on 15 June 2010 and gave another 14 days to pay at the discounted amount. This increased to the full amount of £70 on 29 June 2010 .

 

As we clearly stated in response to your second email we are not obliged to consider a second challenge until a Notice to Owner has been issued and a Formal Representation can then be made and will again be considered. We therefore returned your second correspondance confirming the enforcement and advising you that you could make e Formal Representation once you had received the Notice to Owner. We requested that we may reconsider if you could provide a receipt for the parcels you had taken to the Post Office within 14 days. We did not state that we were giving you a further 14 days to pay at the discounted amount.

 

You may now pay £70 or wait for the Notice to Owner to be issued when you can then make a Formal Representation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

LD

 

Parking Services

Dear Ms Ryder-Ellis

 

Penalty Charge Notice CX38044272

Served on 10 June 2010

Vehicle Registration KF07YZP

Location Crown Street, Elland

 

Thank you for your recent mail regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).

 

The Council has already considered your challenge and it has been rejected. Under current legislation, the Council is not obliged to consider any further representations until the registered owner of the vehicle has been issued with a Notice to Owner.

 

The TRO states that loading must consist of heavy or bulky items and the act of loading suggests that it would be continuous. You may supply evidence from the Post Office as you have suggested within 14 days from the date of this letter and we may reconsider our decision, or as explained in our previous letter, the Notice to Owner will advise of the process and grounds on which formal representations can be made. You may wish to resubmit the correspondence with your formal representation to the Notice to Owner if you wish. The Council is obliged to consider representations to the Notice to Owner even if your challenge has been rejected.

 

Further information about Civil Parking Enforcement (including PCNs and NTOs) is available online at http://www.patrol-uk.info.

 

Yours sincerely

 

DB

 

Parking Services

 

 

Our Ref : CX38044272

Your Ref :

Please Contact : Parking Services/JD

Telephone : 01422 392125

Fax : 01422 392191

Email : [email protected]

 

Date : 15 June 2010

 

 

 

 

Dear Ms Ryder-Ellis

 

Penalty Charge Notice CX38044272

Served on 10 June 2010

Vehicle Registration KF07YZP

Location Crown Street, Elland

 

Thank you for your recent letter regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).

 

Under the Traffic Management Act 2004, your letter has been treated as a challenge against this Penalty Charge Notice and careful consideration has been given to your letter, including all the circumstances relating to the issue of this Charge.

 

The Penalty Charge was issued for parking on a single yellow line in contravention of the restrictions that are in force as indicated by the time plates in the area in which you parked. The Civil Enforcement Officer observed your vehicle from 12:35 to 12:40 to see if there was any loading taking place. There was no activity during this time and it was for this reason the Charge was issued. You state in your email that you did not see a sign, however the photographs taken at the time the Civil Enforcement Officer issued the Charge clearly show that there was a sign just next to your vehicle which stated 'No waiting 8am-6pm'. It is your respo0nsibility to ensure you have checked all road markings and signs before you park and leave your vehicle. Loading and unloading is permitted on double and single yellow lines, however this must be seen to be a continuous activity and must be of heavy or bulky items. Loading or unloading does not include taking things into the Post Office and then queuing at the counter to send them. You would have to load your goods into the premises, move your car to a suitable location and then return to process the paperwork/payments etc. Your reasons for not complying with the regulations in force are insufficient to merit the cancellation of this Charge.

 

We are satisfied that this Charge was issued correctly and your challenge is rejected for the reasons outlined above.

 

You may now pay the discounted amount of £35.00 within 14 days from the date of this letter, after which the PCN reverts to the full charge of £70.00. If payment is not received, a Notice to Owner (NTO) will be sent to the owner of the vehicle requiring payment of the penalty charge. The person on whom an NTO is served can then make representations to the Council against the PCN and may appeal to an independent adjudicator if those representations are rejected. The Council is obliged to consider representations to the Notice to Owner, even if your challenge has been rejected, however the discounted amount will not be applicable once a Notice to Owner has been issued.

 

Further information about Civil Parking Enforcement (including PCNs and NTOs) is available online at http://www.patrol-uk.info.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

Our Ref : CX38044272

Your Ref :

Please Contact : Parking Services/JD

Telephone : 01422 392125

Fax : 01422 392191

Email : [email protected]

 

Date : 15 June 2010

 

 

 

 

Dear Ms Ryder-Ellis

 

Penalty Charge Notice CX38044272

Served on 10 June 2010

Vehicle Registration KF07YZP

Location Crown Street, Elland

 

Thank you for your recent letter regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).

 

Under the Traffic Management Act 2004, your letter has been treated as a challenge against this Penalty Charge Notice and careful consideration has been given to your letter, including all the circumstances relating to the issue of this Charge.

 

The Penalty Charge was issued for parking on a single yellow line in contravention of the restrictions that are in force as indicated by the time plates in the area in which you parked. The Civil Enforcement Officer observed your vehicle from 12:35 to 12:40 to see if there was any loading taking place. There was no activity during this time and it was for this reason the Charge was issued. You state in your email that you did not see a sign, however the photographs taken at the time the Civil Enforcement Officer issued the Charge clearly show that there was a sign just next to your vehicle which stated 'No waiting 8am-6pm'. It is your respo0nsibility to ensure you have checked all road markings and signs before you park and leave your vehicle. Loading and unloading is permitted on double and single yellow lines, however this must be seen to be a continuous activity and must be of heavy or bulky items. Loading or unloading does not include taking things into the Post Office and then queuing at the counter to send them. You would have to load your goods into the premises, move your car to a suitable location and then return to process the paperwork/payments etc. Your reasons for not complying with the regulations in force are insufficient to merit the cancellation of this Charge.

 

We are satisfied that this Charge was issued correctly and your challenge is rejected for the reasons outlined above.

 

You may now pay the discounted amount of £35.00 within 14 days from the date of this letter, after which the PCN reverts to the full charge of £70.00. If payment is not received, a Notice to Owner (NTO) will be sent to the owner of the vehicle requiring payment of the penalty charge. The person on whom an NTO is served can then make representations to the Council against the PCN and may appeal to an independent adjudicator if those representations are rejected. The Council is obliged to consider representations to the Notice to Owner, even if your challenge has been rejected, however the discounted amount will not be applicable once a Notice to Owner has been issued.

 

Further information about Civil Parking Enforcement (including PCNs and NTOs) is available online at http://www.patrol-uk.info.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

J Dixon

Parking Services

 

MY EMAILS

 

Good Evening

 

I am writing to you concerning PCN CX38044272.

 

I was served a ticket today for parking on a single white line, I incorrectly assumed this was fine as people are always parked there and the car park opposite was full. I couldn't see any signs to say it was residents only or that parking was not allowed so proceeded to unload my car and deliver my parcels to the post office.

 

I use Elland post office daily on a lunch time so send around £25.00 of post daily. This being my stock from my online business. My custom is appreciated and I like to use the facilities in Elland so they don't go out of business.

 

I was shocked to return to my car within 15 minutes and find a parking ticket.

 

I have never in my life had a parking ticket and I always make sure I park someone away from entrances and not on busy roads so I assumed I was helping Elland by parking on a small quiet side road instead of the main road opposite the post office.

 

I would like to appeal on the grounds that I was unloading my car and taking the parcels to the post office and returned within 15 minutes (I have spoken to the post office and they are happy to confirm I go their daily to post 10+ parcels a day and that I am never there more than 10-15 minutes), they do not want to lose my business. I have also got no previous offences for parking or speeding or any other criminal acts. The signs to say you cannot park are not displayed clearly and I was carrying out business at the time.

 

I hope I can appeal to your kind nature to remove the fine on this occassion.

 

This is as I'm sure you can appreciate a rather difficult time for businesses and we should work together to support each other and the local community rather than hinder them.

 

Kind Regards

 

Zoe Ryder-Ellis

 

From: Zoe Ellis

To: "[email protected]"

Sent: Tue, 15 June, 2010 17:54:14

Subject: Re: cx38044272

 

Good Evening

 

Thank you for your response, the contents which I note.

 

You may wish to use spell checker before sending future emails as the email you have sent is very unprofessional.

 

Please confirm where you are getting the law that you have to be continuously loading or unloading your vehicle. Please also confirm as to how you know the size of the packages I was unloading?

 

You cannot leave packages unattended which I am sure the police will support me in saying this, unattended packages can be deemed a bomb scare!

 

I was unloading my vehicle and did so and returned within 20 minutes. I was not posting letters as you suggest by the tone of your email. I was unloaded large boxes and heavy items by myself, how you expect me to take these out of my car and leave them unattended whilst driving away and then walking back to collect them is ridiculous.

 

If you can prove by law that you are correct and can provide a definition to support your claims in a court of law I will gladly consider paying the fine and accepting your decision, however at this point in time I wish for the case to be reviewed.

 

If you wish to receive confirmation from the post office about the items I take into them then I will gladly have this done.

 

P.S I don't wait in line to be seen at the counter. I go daily at a specific time and am seen straight away due to the size of the items I have and the frequency in which I visit the Elland post office.

 

Please review and then send me a further response. If a sensible outcome is not reached I am happy to go to court regarding the matter.

 

Please also forward the photos to me.

 

Kind Regards

 

P.S Pity your traffic officer was not around today as numerous cars in the same place I was and even some on double yellows and they had no tickets, don't worry I warned one or two of them about my fine and they quickly moved the cars. See I'm even doing your parking officers job for them free of charge!!

[dragonkeeper]

Hiya Guys

I got a parking fine for parking on a single yellow. My friend who is always on the moneysavingexpert forums and told me what to

dispute under because on the website for Martin Lewis it mentioned how to get out of them.

Well I tried and they declined

so I challenged again and thought I cant be bothered anymore so I will pay £35 well I went to pay and it said £70 so I emailed them. They are now saying tough we can make you pay £70.00.

!!

 

 

Sorry, it was such a looooooooong poooooooooost I read through.

While you had the option of paying just 50% of PCN, you chose to listen to your friend about another forum.

That forum said NO.

So you come onto this forum for help.

 

As I have said in another thread

 

"the Oracle's of CAG are superb"

 

"CAG is not quite yet ALMIGHTY"

 

I am a mere novice far far away from being an "oracle"

 

My advice to you pay your 50% (£35) plus ask your friend who gave the bad "advice" for the other 50% (£35) and pay the £70 charge (NOT FINE)

 

Will you try and find another forum or just pay your "debt" and move on.

 

 

 

 

dk

[littleladyellz]

oh your so helpful not, get a life and give your head a shake.

[lamma]

the council got quite a few things wrong there. there is no limitation to the number of informal appeals to the PCN in the legislation. And I doubt their description of loading is 'accurate' get the TRO for that place.

[littleladyellz]

Thanks Lamma.

The post office have said they are happy to support my appeal and will put a letter together.

I've seen threads about the flower seller case is that similar, it seems in a lot of similar cases to mine they found in the publics favour rather than the councils.

Do you think they are just trying to scare me into settling £70?

Should I get the letter from the postoffice and write back rather than email?

Thanks for your help Lamma

[lamma]

hit them with everything . lots of councils fail to understand loading. In fact lots of council seem to forget key cases when they are the council that was on the losing side. money grubbers all of them.

[letshelp]

Send Green and Mean a pm with a link to this thread he is very well up on these sort of tickets.

regards

[dragonkeeper]

about as helpful as Martin Lewis and your Friend did you tell them to get life & shake head

 

:confused:

 

In your first post you admitted you were in the wrong, or did it slip you memory?

I will pay £35 !!

 

 

I am not against people who happen unknowingly commiting parking violations.

 

What I do disagree with is when people knowingly commit parking violations. Then try as hard as they can not to pay.

If the Council took your £35 when you offered it then you would not be on here trying not to pay.

 

There are quite a few members on this site with 'parking violation' knowledge, "letshelp" has pointed you a parking Guru in "green and mean" he may help, he may not.

 

Or you could ask Neil Herron he just loves 'parking violations' If I remember he took his to High Court

 

For myself it sounds more like sour grapes

 

I parked!

 

got a ticket!

 

can pay!

 

will not pay!!. :grin:

 

 

 

dk

[Surfer01]

On many occasions I have either got bad advice from the other site or being slagged off which is why I prefer to use CAG. Hopefully you will find CAG a lot more usefull for this incident and also any other issues you may have in the future.