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Court Tomorrow _ Help Please!


Mission24
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Hi, I'm a newbie to this site so please forgive me for any lack of info or incorrect terms used I will try and make as clear&short as I can!!

I've had my Halifax credit card since December 2001. Last year I ran into financial difficulty&could no longer afford payments. In March 2009 I offered approx. 1/4 of the debt as full&final settlement, as the money I had raised was to be split between 4 other creditors (1 being BOS) which I explained - rejected. In October I requested a true&signed copy of my agreement - No reply.

I received a Claim form from Northampton County Court (Date of Service 18th Nov). Particulars stating that: "... presently due pursuant to a credit agreement entered into the parties, full particulars of which have been supplied hitherto. By an agreement dated 4/12/2001 the defendant has an account number xxxx with the claimant.... under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974"

I acknowledged the service form online&now really need some assistance with putting a letter together for my defence... does anyone have any suggestions on what to include or templates I could use? Also, a letter to send to BOS address stated under claimant or the collections & recoveries, newcastle address (not sure if this is actually BOS?)

One last thing... I'm sure that the account number and card were updated/changed a few years ago would this make any difference? :confused:

Any help greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!!

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Hi, I am going through a very similar thing with Creation Finance. My court case was on 19/11/09 and I had put a defence in, not using any templates, just stating the facts about my predicament at the time. It was true so why should I not just see what the courts said. I had qriginally offered a settlement figure in July 2007, but they wouldn't have it and drew the whole saga out until now, adding over £1000 in charges and costs, not to mention a default on my credit file!! I received their witness statements at %pm via email the night before court and it was 80 pages long. I sat up until 1.30am. I had made my notes and questions for the claimant, who stated in the witness statement that they would not be in court, so I thought that would go against them. Anyway, to cut a long story short they did have an advocate there and we went before the judge. It was all very informal and he explained what was going to happen. He read out some "stuff" I just stuck to the facts and mentioned about my financial situation to to a business partnership of my husbands going wrong, which left us with no money. The advocate started on about the terms and conditions, which I couldn't read and I told the Judge this. he couldn't read them either. She tried to get amother copy. The Judge said I was sort of changing my defence. I said not really as my statement of truth still stood, it was them who were quoting T & C's and I wasn't able to read them. He was really nice and he adjournedthe case and said that they had to produce the true copy of T&C and I could amend my defence if I thought it was "unfair". He told me to seek legal advice( which I cant afford) and I have hunted all over the forum and have put my defence in today. I have admitted in part some of the debt, but have said that the way in which they had conducted my account was grossly unfair. I mentioned the consumer regulations. They said I had ignored their correspondence, but I have letter from them saying thank you for contacting us about your account. I believe that the courts are there to help and if they see that I owe creation money, they will make an arrangement for me to pay, which is what I had asked Creation to do in the first place. Their advocate wanted to apply cost to me for the hearing and for the next hearing both at £280 and the judge said "NO" I am not sure they will take it as far as the next hearing, I hope not!!

In your defence, be as honest as you can and send any letters you have.

I will keep you posted on my case.

Hope all this makes sense!!

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Hi, I'm a newbie to this site so please forgive me for any lack of info or incorrect terms used I will try and make as clear&short as I can!!

I've had my Halifax credit card since December 2001. Last year I ran into financial difficulty&could no longer afford payments. In March 2009 I offered approx. 1/4 of the debt as full&final settlement, as the money I had raised was to be split between 4 other creditors (1 being BOS) which I explained - rejected. In October I requested a true&signed copy of my agreement - No reply.

I received a Claim form from Northampton County Court (Date of Service 18th Nov). Particulars stating that: "... presently due pursuant to a credit agreement entered into the parties, full particulars of which have been supplied hitherto. By an agreement dated 4/12/2001 the defendant has an account number xxxx with the claimant.... under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974"

I acknowledged the service form online&now really need some assistance with putting a letter together for my defence... does anyone have any suggestions on what to include or templates I could use? Also, a letter to send to BOS address stated under claimant or the collections & recoveries, newcastle address (not sure if this is actually BOS?)

One last thing... I'm sure that the account number and card were updated/changed a few years ago would this make any difference? :confused:

Any help greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!!

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If you sent off for a copy of your agreement then they seem to be still in default of your request and the debt cannot be enforced whilst they are in dipsute (although they are hoping you may not defend).....14 days from the date on the claim form in which to acknowledge receipt, then if you are going to defend all then state that...you get a further 14+3 days in which to submit your defence...however first things first, you need to send of a CPR31.14 ASAP by recorded delivery to the opposing solicitors...please read this very carefully and edit as required... -

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

This is a very useful link for you to read.....there is no cause on the particualrs (unless you have missed out the default bit...) are they the FULL POC's (particulars of the claim)....

 

Read this too - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html

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You might also like to send this too to cover all bases -

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

CPR 18 - REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

 

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

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mission

 

If you have acknowledged the service of the claim form online, by my calculations, you have until 18 December to file a defence. You can do so electronically provided it is less than 8000 characters.

 

There are a number of 'embrassed' or holding defences on various threads that can be used if BOS do not come with an agreement in time. You might like to look at these to give you an idea of what is needed.

 

What documents have you received from BOS already?

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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Hi Everyone.. thank you all so much for your responses - feeling more empowered!!

Lakey.. it makes complete sense.. or non-sense on their part!! I understand how frustrating it is, well done for persisting and hope your next update is a positive one ;)

42man I shall certainly use those templates and send via recorded delivery. The links made for very interesting reading, many thanks!!

Docman/Hungrybear I sent the CPR request previous to any court claim and had no response from them. Still a little concerned about the time I have - if I cannot file a defence later than the 18th and BOS have 14 days to respond, would today have been the last day for me to send out the request?

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Hi Everyone.. thank you all so much for your responses - feeling more empowered!!

Lakey.. it makes complete sense.. or non-sense on their part!! I understand how frustrating it is, well done for persisting and hope your next update is a positive one ;)

42man I shall certainly use those templates and send via recorded delivery. The links made for very interesting reading, many thanks!!

Docman/Hungrybear I sent the CPR request previous to any court claim and had no response from them. Still a little concerned about the time I have - if I cannot file a defence later than the 18th and BOS have 14 days to respond, would today have been the last day for me to send out the request?

 

Check the 18th is the right date and then double check it.

 

I would file a holding defence on the 17th at the very latest by hand delivery to the court or online if it's mcol. If you have to post then SPECIAL DELIVERY - dont skimp on this on the 16th.

 

You have done all you can. Idiots should not instigate court claims without all the documents to be sure they have a valid claim with a reasonable chance of success to hand

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Yes Hungrybear agree with you 100%, that's why I want to do everything I 'legally' can. Thank you.. think I have it clear in my head now and yes, it is definitely the 18th that is my last day for defence. Will certainly send it recorded delivery this time - worth every penny!

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Yes Hungrybear agree with you 100%, that's why I want to do everything I 'legally' can. Thank you.. think I have it clear in my head now and yes, it is definitely the 18th that is my last day for defence. Will certainly send it recorded delivery this time - worth every penny!

 

 

SPECIAL DELIVERY

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HB

 

I beleive the claim was filed online through Northampton, so an 'embarassed' defence could be filed online as well.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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Brilliant thanks once again guys makes it alot easier and HungryBear SPECIAL DELIVERY for the CPR request will make sure of it and will keep you updated on developments!!!!!.. and probably ask a few more annoying questions before that :)

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Brilliant thanks once again guys makes it alot easier and HungryBear SPECIAL DELIVERY for the CPR request will make sure of it and will keep you updated on developments!!!!!.. and probably ask a few more annoying questions before that :)

 

Recorded delivery is fine for CPR, dont waste money on the opposition

 

(sorry but I'm just not prepared to let you get it right:p)

 

There are no annoying questions only annoying results so keep the questions coming and we'll find someone who can answer each of them

 

- my ex works for HBOS, so if I can help to keep their pay rise down then its a win win!:D

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Guys,

Well it's D-day.. time to put in my defence!!

Despite sending the CPR 18 Special delivery and the CPR 31.14 Recorded Delivery, to both the address on the CCF and the Halifax Collections and Recoveries address, I have not had my reqests fulfilled by Halifax/BOS. Although... I have received a statement from Halifax inc. £190.00 Legal Fees!! Aswell as a letter that came from Halifaz Legal Section today regarding my 31.14 request :

"Please be advised we have requested a copy Agreement from the relevant department and will revert to you as soon as we have received this."

So my next question of course is, what do I include in my defence?.. Do I mention that they have acknowledged my request (well one of them) or do I go with the 'frustrating proceedings' road/put in a holding defence? Any help appreciated once again ;)

Lakey how are you getting on??

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Hi Mission24, I am getting on fine. Creation Finance were supposed to deliver docs to court by the 18th Dec, with copies to me, plus an original agreement and a legible terms and conditions. I haven't received anything as yet. The courts have set a hearing date for the 19 February 2010. As creation's legal department have not compiled with the courts request (as far as I know), I will be sending in a form to have it struck out.

I will have to do all this after Christmas as I am too busy getting ready for christmas now. hope all goes well with you, have a good christmas and New Year.

Best Wishes

Lakey02

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Hi Mission24, I am getting on fine. Creation Finance were supposed to deliver docs to court by the 18th Dec, with copies to me, plus an original agreement and a legible terms and conditions. I haven't received anything as yet. The courts have set a hearing date for the 19 February 2010. As creation's legal department have not compiled with the courts request (as far as I know), I will be sending in a form to have it struck out.

I will have to do all this after Christmas as I am too busy getting ready for christmas now. hope all goes well with you, have a good christmas and New Year.

Best Wishes

Lakey02

 

 

lakey

 

It might be a good idea if you starteda new thread about your case in the New Year. I think you should be able to put in a good defence.

 

Doc

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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  • 3 weeks later...

A very happy and prosperous 2010 to you all!!

Well I have today received from Halifax a copy of the reconstituted version of the executed agreement and a copy of the current terms and conditions. They state at the bottom of the letter that "the information we have provided you with is all the information we are required to provide you with under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act. Please note that we are not required to provide a copy of the original signed agreement under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act." Surprise Surprise they have not complied with the requests made!!

Now I've tried doing some research but feel a little overwhelmed with the amount of information, could you please suggest what action I should take next? Thank you as always, Mission24

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H mission,

 

Did you file an embrassed defence before Christmas?

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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Hi Docman,

 

Have you sent your form to get it struck out yet?

Yes, please find a copy of my defence below;

"...am the defendant in this action and make the

following statement as my defence to the claim made by Bank of Scotland PLC;

1) The claim as pleaded does not contain sufficient particulars to permit me to file

a properly particularised and pleaded defence. Further, no documents supporting the

claim in the particulars have been offered. I have made a request for disclosure

(CPR 18 and 31.14 posted Royal Mail Special Delivery), pursuant to Part 31 of the

Civil Procedure Rules, to the Claimant, to allow me to properly respond to the

claim. The Claimant has failed to fulfil the Part 31 request.

2) It is Not admitted that I signed any agreement with the claimant. If, which is

not admitted, such an agreement exists the precise terms and date of any such

agreement are not admitted. I do not have in my possession any such agreement and am

not therefore able to comment thereon. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the

date and terms ofsuch agreement.

3) It is averred that if any agreement did exist that the aforesaid agreement would

be a regulated agreement within the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("the

Act"). It is not admitted that any alleged Agreement is enforceable within the terms

of the Act. As I do not have a copy of the said agreement the Claimant is put to

strict proof that the aforesaid agreement was properly executed and has been

enforceable at all times since its? inception.

4) I have no knowledge of the service of a default notice. The claimant is put to

strict proof as to the content and service of any such alleged default notice.

5) Further and in the alternative it is not admitted that the sum claimed is

lawfully owing. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to how the sum claimed has

been calculated and as to how it is asserted that the sum claimed is contractually

owing.

6) Further and in any event in view of the failure to comply with the CPR Part 31

request it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to costs as claimed.

7) In view of the above, it is denied that I am indebted to the Claimant as alleged

or at all and respectfully request that the Court gives consideration as to whether

the Claimant?s Particulars of Claim should be struck out under CPR 3.4.2 as

disclosing no reasonable grounds and evidence for bringing the claim.

Statement of Truth

I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true."

 

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In that case, I think you can gnore the 'S78' response from Halifax. They are either running about two months behind the legal process OR they do not understand the difference between a S78 request and a request for documents requested to prove a legal claim. I suspect it is proably both!

 

The next stage is for the Halifax to respond to your defence by contacting the Northampton county court within the next 28 days. If they do and wish to proceed, Northampton will transfer the claim to your local county court. You will be notified and asked to complete an 'Allocation Questionnaire' for return to your local court.

 

If the Halifax do not respond to the court (increasingly common) then Northampton will 'stay' the claim until they do respond. You could apply to lift the stay and to strike out the claim if you wished.

 

I suggest you hang on until the end of January to see what the next step is from the Halifax.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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