Bus lane ticket in Uxbridge.

[Gancho]

So on 30 June I'm driving through Uxbridge, a place I don't normally go, and I stray into a bus lane.

 

Today I'm served with a notice by the London Borough of Hillingdon under the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 saying that I strayed into a bus lane and am required to pay £60.00 in 14 days or £120.00 in 28 days. For the avoidance of doubt it's a bus only street.

 

I then compare the ticket to the act and I find a rather subtle defect.

 

The Act says that:

 

A penalty charge notice under this section must—

(a) state—

(i) the grounds on which the council or, as the case may be, Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;

(ii) the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;

(iii) that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

(iv) that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;

(v) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;

(vi) the amount of the increased charge;

(vii) the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be sent; and

(viii) that the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act; and

(b) specify the form in which any such representations are to be made.[/quote]

But the ticket doesn't mention Paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to the Act! It just says, "The grounds you on which you may make a representation are set out below" then paraphrases the grounds.

 

 

Would this be worth running with? It is a bit subtle, but considering that there was that adjudication in which they struck out tickets for mixing up date of service and date of notice...

 

 

I'd appreciate a fairly swift reply, thankya.

[Tony P]

I can't help on your specific point but this was presumably in Vine Street which is the location in Hillingdon with the highest number of tickets and Hillingdon is one of the largest issuers of tickets outside central London.

 

On that basis one would think they had got it right by now, but over 10 years I have regularly had their PCNs cancelled, including due to non-compliant signs and road markings.

 

Also Hillingdon is about top of the league at PATAS for suffering successful appeals so they don't seem too concerned about doing it right.

[sailor sam]

Hi there,

 

Thanks to Tony P for providing the location (if indeed it is the correct one!) so we can look on street view.

 

There appears to be 2 bus lanes here both of which appear to dodgy from a signage point of view. If we are talking about the one from the junction with Cricket Field Road, my observation is that there are no advanced indication that traffic neds to turn left or right prior to the mini-island. I would of thought that there should of been a 'no through road' sign (reffering to straight on) with a plate underneath stating 'except buses and cycles). The signage at the start of the bus lane seems to be compliant as does the road markings.

 

The other 'bus lane' which starts in the middle of the carriageway seems to be the worse of the 2. There is no advance signage or sigange at the start of the bus lane what so ever although the road markings make it pretty obvious it is a bus lane/gate. There appears to be signs at the traffic lights themselves by which time you would already be well inside the bus lane before you saw them. I would also suspect that the lights there would only be triggered by a bus approaching them.

 

__________________

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The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[Gancho]

Hi there,

 

Thanks to Tony P for providing the location (if indeed it is the correct one!) so we can look on street view.

 

There appears to be 2 bus lanes here both of which appear to dodgy from a signage point of view. If we are talking about the one from the junction with Cricket Field Road, my observation is that there are no advanced indication that traffic neds to turn left or right prior to the mini-island. I would of thought that there should of been a 'no through road' sign (reffering to straight on) with a plate underneath stating 'except buses and cycles). The signage at the start of the bus lane seems to be compliant as does the road markings.

 

The other 'bus lane' which starts in the middle of the carriageway seems to be the worse of the 2. There is no advance signage or sigange at the start of the bus lane what so ever although the road markings make it pretty obvious it is a bus lane/gate. There appears to be signs at the traffic lights themselves by which time you would already be well inside the bus lane before you saw them. I would also suspect that the lights there would only be triggered by a bus approaching them.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

 

Thanks folks.

 

It was indeed Vine Street. I'll scan and post the ticket if you want.

 

Thing is, Street View only offers a view of that road from the angle opposite to the one I was driving in. I fear I may have accidentally gone up a pedestrianised street from the other way...

 

Also, can anyone clarify whether, with bus lane tickets, the 14 day reduced fine period is stayed during a representation, like it is with parking tickets, or whether it rolls on regardless.

 

Also of note, which to me is just BEGGING for legal challenge, is the fact that you can only view the CCTV evidence on alternate Tuesdays at the Civic Centre. Unfortunately I have not the time nor the expertise in road traffic law to do that (I am in law, but in landlord & tenant law.)

 

Still, I'll have a look at it in Street View and compare it with the acts and bung in my representation on both dodgy signage and dodgy notice grounds over the weekend.

 

Also, would I be right in thinking that dodgy signage is under ground (b) - the contravention did not take place, because it cannot be an enforceable traffic regulation without the right signage?

[HYMN AND MI]

Post the PCN. Go back and take pics of all signs and post them. Presumably you have made an informal appeal (or paid) by now? If the signage is non-compliant, the contravention did not take place cos the location is unenforceable.

[Gancho]

I have indeed - rejected. I Google Street View'd the signs (I'm not going back to Uxbridge to risk another ticket, I hate the place already and my camera's dead). I'll do some work on my next step over the weekend, because tomorrow I've an interview for a job in Hackney ("This is Hackney, sir. People carry guns.")

[afcwben]

I have indeed - rejected. I Google Street View'd the signs (I'm not going back to Uxbridge to risk another ticket, I hate the place already and my camera's dead). I'll do some work on my next step over the weekend, because tomorrow I've an interview for a job in Hackney ("This is Hackney, sir. People carry guns.")

 

I spent 3 months working in Hackney Never ever again