How do Debt Collection agencies specifically Mckenzie Hall trace private mobile numbers?

[smc1878]

I have had them sending me the same rubbish letters for nearly a year now ...however I have had a text today telling me to contact Mckenzie Hall

 

My mobile is private and I have no idea how they got the number .....

[William415]

Do you use any social/business networking sites? For example, Linkedin, Facebook, or Xing?

 

I know some DCA's that have opened accounts on Linkedin, and have tracked down people using the information they find on their profile page.

[smc1878]

i do but my mobile number is not on these sites I am really shocked

[Guest Cartaphilus]

I suppose one of the answers to this is the same way people's ex-directory numbers get found out by a DCA ... because companies sell lists of numbers to telemarketing and companies of that kind; which is how and why you get advertisement texts even though you've never heard nor approached the companies concerned. Last year, there was a case of a mobile provider's employees selling lists of phone numbers to outside agencies for a profit (it made the news at the time but I am afraid it's not isolated). Not that that's happened here but ... Just an example of how data can be used or abused.

 

I had a peculiar text the other week from another mobile number (or what looked like one) inviting me to phone it or 'reply' because apparently I had an injury claim for an accident I'd never even had and they even listed the amount of money I could claim if I contacted them ... complete rubbish of course but there you go. I don't have my number listed anywhere online at all, only a few people know it but as I said companies sell lists of number to make a profit. But the sender clearly thought I was stupid enough to phone it ... It crossed my mind at the time if it was a DCA just trying to get me to reply to them. Not had one since, though.

 

I don't know how a DCA would go about obtaining your number - and TBH, if they are doing that on any social networking websites it needs to be stopped as I think it's out of order not to mention using underhand tactics at least to me anyway, but the argument there would be you are allowing your profile to be public so they can see it anyway - but I give the above as an example of how any company can your number even if it's ex-directory or a mobile number.

 

Is it me or are there a lot of guests viewing now?

Edited July 7, 2010 by Cartaphilus

[smc1878]

thanks for your comments, my social networking page is set to private so only people I approve can see it

 

Interestingly I changed my name a while back and so my phone bill is in a different name, which has made me even more curious as to how they found my number in the first place... very strange and worrying ....

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Earlier this year I had similar on Facebook ... which is set to private, theoretically only my friends can view it - there's no information about where I live, anything at all eg private information, mostly because of problems I've had online before which I won't go into so I am now more careful as a result - when someone I'd never heard of, but lived locally ... tried to 'friend me'. Now, I am not listed on public search, so I wondered how they had come across me and from the same town. I rejected it anyway, reported it to Facebook as someone I didn't know. Then someone else tried it soon after, claiming they'd gone to school with me, I'd never heard of them (and I remember possibly everyone's names even after over 2 decades including names from primary school, which you do memorize after spending so much of your life with those people, of course, so they stay with you) so I had to do the same again. Not happened since. It didn't cross my mind at all though about it being a DCA just slightly peculiar as I don't list the area I live in.

very strange and worrying ....

 

Block it on your handset. Though they will try another number anyway once they realize that's been blocked.

[harrassed senior]

Well I am extremely careful with my landline as well as mobile, very few people have either number. I also have True Call, however, about 4 weeks ago Muck Hall got through, not only having found the number but had 'broken through' my #zapped# list!! Needless to say 'STEPS HAVE BEEN TAKEN'

[alfwithhair]

Do not worry about Mucky Hall, they are the bottom of the barrel in the collection chain,

Just ignore them. They will have no proof of anything they never do, but keep an eye on your credit files, they are known to put adverse data on it, regardless

[UnmoderatetheNet]

OKAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ITS TIME TO STOP THE MYTHS...sticky if you have to.

 

I do know what I'm taliking about, trust me.

 

DCA tracing is HEAVILY governed by DPA. There was a time when they could obtain ex-dir numbers, bank account info etc etc. Nowadays the IC takes a very dim view and prison sentences have been handed out. Breaking DPA is criminal not civil law.

 

THE FACTS:

 

Trace companies like Tracemart and otther pondlife charge fees from £18(although don't quote me).

 

As yet the SIA license is not in force and they will be f*ecked when it does come into play, however guidlines are in place currently which means they can not ring your mum pretend to be someone else and obtain your mobile number.

 

Despite the illusions they create and peoples perception of tracing there is no mysterious powers at force, they can not access ex direct. numbers and they do not have a huge arrear of databses at ther disposal.

 

The very sorry truth, is they have access to what ever the original creditor supplies from the original appliaction which is usually, tele, mobile, email dob address, job details.

 

Apart from this they no rights other than the general public which means access to PUBLIC information which means voters info, BT, court info and if they hold credit licence CRA info, in some cases DVLC. THATS' IT.

 

Sure marketing companies sell the info you provide to anyone who will buy it but mail prefence and telphone prefence services cut down on this abuse.

 

As for social networking...don't put your number on. Is your number on a available to non friends? Log in now and remove or change the privacy settings.

 

Bottom line is with limited info available to them there is little they can do and even a DCA no matter how stupid does not wnat the IC on ther back and/or prison sentence.

 

On a diferent point I don't see why DPA cannot be used to ask the company in question where they obtained the telephone number from, let me know how you get on if you choose this route.

[Bazooka Boo]

And Royal Mail..

[Seminole]

And not to forget the DVLA which is particularly disgraceful as they exploit their statutory right to your data by selling it.

[UnmoderatetheNet]

Actually I mentioned DVLA just typed DVLC instead???

 

I used the main sources. Sorry If i did not print a full list of sources:cool:

 

The PO can be used for reverse checks and PO Box but to say again whatever info PONDLIFE DCA/trace/Investigators whatever they want to call themselves have access to, so do you.

 

So the next time you receive a letter...Our agents have been informed or we have reason to believe or local checks have prooved etc etc

 

Translation: Phil our office juinior checked the internet and now we are sending you a fianl demand to get in touch with us becuae until we speak to you we haven't got a clue and these sh*te DPA laws are crippling us.

[Bazooka Boo]

The Royal Mail also pass on the details to DCA's, ie your address, when you move and use their forwarding service.

[sillygirl1]

Dont forget if anyone is having issues with Mackenzie Hall to contact Alan Stewart at East Ayrshire Trading Standards - he is the person to stop them from making your life a misery with their continual calls and letters.

[UnmoderatetheNet]

Its not strictly true.

 

I believe from memory they pass re-deirction info to TV licence people, unemployemnt office/social and CRA.

 

DCA have access to CRA but thats about it.

[harrassed senior]

I think, upon reading the above that I have had enough, and in future I will not be giving my telephone number on any form I have to complete. I guess that because many of us need a landline to access the WWW then we are stuck with having a landline, even mobile broadband works with a landline number I believe?

 

Many forms on the internet will not let you get away with not imputing a telephone number, so in that case I will not join, buy or use their sites in future.

 

My internet mail provider kindly gives me access to a 'disposable' e mail address to use on those sites, so that helps.

 

Several years' ago I had reason to change my name and this was legally done by Deed Poll, however, when informing those that absolutely needed to know, such as my bank, they put an AKA on my account and as such it still links back to my previous name and as such the police, on whose advice I changed my name were extremely unimpressed!!.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Well, my mobile number isn't anywhere online, if I have to input on an order for anything (they already have my email so they can contact me via that anyway in the event of a problem, see no need for a telephone number asides from any telemarketing further down the line which I don't want nor care about apart from it being annoying nuisance which I have short shrift for), the only people who have it are, apart from 2 people (one is family, the other a friend) I put an old number which I know doesn't work anymore because I don't want any companies phoning me and because I know it will get passed around the system. I withold it whenever I phone any company for the same reason; however this will not work with every company as some switchboards can 'see' your number whether you withold it or not (if you phone the police they can still see your number because of their systems, I know this because I went for an interview with them years ago for a job in that very area of work eg communications, mind you I also went for similar with the RAF a bit later on after graduating but in another area which did and would have involved a kind of data gathering but for a different purpose entirely). Regarding TPS and junk mail. Both sell data to make a profit, RM certainly does so does TPS have people have found over the years when they sill receive rogue calls from overseas marketing companies because they get by our archaic BT phone line system very easily.

 

BTW, I could have gone into great detail about how people trace - it's bloody easy these days anyway using whatever technology is out there, word of mouth etc etc etc - but I chose not to.

 

Many years ago Littlewoods sent me someone elses account number, name and address, that other person got mine. I wasn't very pleased with them, I phoned them up and was quite livid with the obvious fact they couldn't understand why I was upset, angry and frustrated by them that they did not understand why I was worried someone else had my data ne address, account number and so on.

 

In fact many years ago because I was getting rather tired of mail coming to my rented address at the time belonging to a previous tennant who had done a runner without paying their bills, which is what they had done, given the unpaid utility bills and DCA letters coming in their dozens per week - the landlord even told me later the tenant had annoyed every other neighbour in a very nice area which it was and they were glad they left their property - so I phoned the one concerned (baring in mind this was before I had debts of my own so ergo didn't know things like I do now, you don't need to nor or why would you need to know until you need to, I don't know how to make bread but I will learn when I need to same as anything else in life) and told them where they were living. DCA obviously couldn't find that out, even though it was fairly easy to do - they were in a newspaper report along with their present whereabouts (I knew who it was because living in a country and rural area you know the community) but I also told them where they could go look ie church records, whatever I knew was available for anyone in the general public to look up and stop bothering me.

 

Another time I had someone using that address and had opened a mobile phone account. Did the company pay any attention to the obvious fact that the address on the bill was actually somewhere in the Midlands? Did they hell. Phoning them I was met with a load of Data Protection rubbish, baring in mind it was they sending me the bills and I was trying to tell them that person didn't live there, according to them she did. Despite the town on the bill and postcode being over 100 miles from where their bills were coming to. They just didn't get the message until I threatened them with something slightly stronger and they then stopped sending them.

 

Then there's all the data lapses which I won't go into that should never happen but they do, down to human error because data nor a machine can think on it's own without human intervention.

 

As we live in an age of the internet, nothing really can be as safe as it ever can be. To some out there it's a paradise of information, whether advertently or inadvertently. Time and again I have seen people leaving things on their profiles online or not being as safe or as safe I should say as you can be online, because if someone wants your data then they will simply find it.

 

Despite the illusions they create and peoples perception of tracing there is no mysterious powers at force,

What mysterious forces would these be, then? As I said if someone wants to know something about you then they will find that information out. If they know how to and I am talking about beyond things like data selling here or tracing. BTW, ex-directory numbers do get sold, along with TPS data. Also, none of my creditors nor DCAs has my present phone number simply because it didn't exist when the accounts were opened so they then cannot phone it on that basis. Or send me texts via that same reason. Nor am I stupid enough to let them have it, either. I don't phone them, because once I know I do they might very well then have that stored on their system. I think it would horrify people TBH how data gets 'stored' in places like the DWP. I should know I worked for them years ago and saw what went on, there's one reason private data can get into someone elses hands right there. It happens at council level as well with the anti-terrorism measures getting abused, or your neighbour happens to work for them and doesn't like you for some reason. Seen reports in the last year in the paper where this has happened. I happen to know that a complaint I made about a neighbour whom I know worked for the council got back to them though I was told it would be kept confidential and private on their syste but, oh wait, there's this thing called a person who has to input or access that data/information ... Then it gets to the person who you have made a complaint to.

 

As to the DWP, I know people were sacked for looking up NINO - national insurance numbers - using their system, you put someone's NINO in there, you get mostly everything about them. People were looking up the Spice Girls, David Beckhams, celebrity addressess so they could write to them. Another abuse. And someone getting data they weren't entitled to and well outside their job remit.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Cartaphilus

[Helios]

Don't even write your mobile number on any forms like broadband and sky etc they do verify your identity with CRAs, we know DCAs are linked to them

 

I've had my mobile number for 2 years so far no DCA has ever found it

[Bazooka Boo]

Its not strictly true.

I believe from memory they pass re-deirction info to TV licence people, unemployemnt office/social and CRA.

DCA have access to CRA but thats about it.

 

And as CRA's and DCA's are one and the same, 'you scratch mine, I'll scratch yours' club, since 2006 Experian have been using Royal Mail's 'redirect' service to be able to trace alleged debtors.

Experian Corp. has installed Royal Mail Inc.'s new Redirect Check service across its range of authentication and fraud prevention solutions. Experian has been working closely with Royal Mail to enhance its Detect product as well as its identity authentication solutions. There are over 1.3 million redirections in place with the help of the Royal Mail's redirection service. These and all new redirections are now loaded onto the Royal Mail Redirect Check service, a complete database of all addresses from which mail is being redirected.

[Seminole]

And as CRA's and DCA's are one and the same, 'you scratch mine, I'll scratch yours' club, since 2006 Experian have been using Royal Mail's 'redirect' service to be able to trace alleged debtors.

 

The Post Office online application contains the following option:

 

At no extra cost, we can provide your new contact details (of each type) to organisations that already have your equivalent old contact details so they can update their records. (Such organisations include public bodies.) This may help reduce the risk of ID theft and environmental impact. If you do not want this, please untick the box

 

It would be interesting to know whether they pass on data irrespective of this as the marketing blurb seems to imply that the do. Assuming, fo a moment that they don't, this para is misleading. How many people would untick the box if they knew what the Post Office actually meant by this- we'll pass your data to anyone who will pay for it irrespective of whether it would be helpful to you or not. Would they sell the data directly to a debt collector if they asked for it? Do Experian sell the data outside of the requirements of credit file access eg to a debt collector who has no legal basis for searching a credit file?

[Bazooka Boo]

good point S, food for thought, the way I read it is that regardless of whether you tick the box or not, as experian has access to this info anyway, I would think it would be rather irrelevant.

We all know how easy DVLA are at giving out personal info regarding owners of vehicles to anyone that will pay for it, this again is another way in which DCA's trace their prey...

 

Me and Postggi had quite a good convo about this last year when I directed him to the source of info, he was unaware that RM even had this facility!

[Seminole]

I used it last year when I moved and I had letters about a couple of hugely SB debts. Both resulted in searches on my credit file which I had to get removed,

 

Unfortunately I can't remember whether the box was ticked or unticked.

 

Even if I left the box ticked it's a very salutory lesson. In doing so you effectively authorise the Royal Mail to sell your data. They do so to Experian which in turn is willing to sell it to debt collectors. If they get a match against their records, they then search your credit file on the pretext that there is an 'outstanding debt'.

 

Even if everything works lawfully, the unwary who use this service are *paying* to tell debt collectors about themselves.

[Bazooka Boo]

It does make you wonder doesn't it, something as simple as having your mail redirected can open a can of worms, ridiculous really..

[Seminole]

It's actually scandalous. RM make it sound like a service to you whereas it's actually a profit making venture.

 

The working of the opt out should be amended to make it clear that the data will not just be given away- it will be sold. That should make anyone who's not in the know think about what they are signing up to. Why would anyone with an existing relationship with you actually pay to obtain your contact details.

 

I wonder if people like Tony Hetherington are aware of this?

[foreveraloe]

Christ, this is disgraceful! I never realised that RM did this. Supposing you had to move in order to leave a violent relationship for example, and you didn't want your address broadcast, RM would just sell it to any tom, dick and harry anyway!!! Surely this is a breach of the DPA or something?