No car...No refund

[jelly-82]

Very long story short(ish)...

 

On Mon 22-2-10, my partner purchased a Peugeot 406 Saloon, 2.0hdi LX from a used car dealer. On Fri 26-2-10, we went to collect the vehicle, after a short drive the vehicle suffered a drastic loss of power, and, thick trails of black smoke poured from the exhaust, the vehicle was unable to rev past 3000rpm and excessive fuel consumption was noted.

 

Fast Forward....

 

On Wed 21-4-10 the vehicle was returned to the dealer to provide a forth and final opportunity for repair (mechanic A) has failed 3 times to repair, so vehicle WILL be taken to mechanic B. On 18-5-10 a letter was sent stating sufficient time for repair had been provided and as the dealer had still made no attempts to repair the vehicle we were formally rejecting the vehicle and requesting a full refund.

 

To date: The vehicle is still with mechanic A, actual location and mechanics details have been refused, (asked for several times inc recorded delivery) also requested copies of invoices for vehicle appraisal and any repairs, dealers details (surname is needed for small claims court) all have been refused.

 

Mon 21-6-10 filled for small claims court, vehicle was not:

 

• of satisfactory quality (taking into account its age and mileage)

• meet any description given to you when you were buying it, and

• fit for the purpose (for example, to get you from A to B safely).

 

surname was found on 1 of the recorded delivery letters the dealer signed for so fingers crossed its the right name!! (on all other letters the signature cannot be read and the printed name is the business name).

 

the dealer now the defendant had the claim served and as expected has so far not responded so we will be applying to enter judgment when his time is up, then apply for a warrant of execution as no doubt we shall have still heard nothing.

 

 

QUESTIONS???

As anyone who has won there case ever actually received a refund?

 

What are we supposed to do about the vehicle in the mean time?

we have the log book and m.o.t etc but no idea where the car is, now I cant see it getting any speeding tickets or anything but as my partner is still the registered keeper of the vehicle we are still responsible for it.

 

If it gets to the point of enforcement would the bailiff be able to recover the vehicle and sell it to raise part of the refund?

[buzby]

In order, you need to do more to ensure you are naming the correct defendant. You cannot leave this to chance. If a firm, it is the company you sue, not an individual. If the dealer trades under a trading name that is not a Ltd or Plc, you need to sue him by name, NOT the name of someone who signed the postal receipt (although you may be lucky and this WAS the correct name).

 

Assuming it is, he doesn't enter a defence and you get judgement, Bailiffs will only look at the premises you name as the contact point. If the car is not there, then will not form the basis of their distraint. Banks accounts are better, as the price of cars in a yard can be mercurial.

[jelly-82]

hiya, yer i know the name thing is pretty weak and its going to be down to luck that he just signed the recorded delivery without thinking and printed his own surname instead of the business name, we have been trying to confirm his details but citizens advice could only suggest checking with electric/water company (who would be unable to help) or to see if the police could help but they said unless we reported the car stolen (as he wont tell us where it is) then it is a civil matter and they wont get involved. He is a sole trader so his name is needed for the small claims form, he should have his details displayed at his yard and should also include his details on the sales invoice but he hasn't.

 

Its his last day to reply to the claim today, when you said about a bank account is that the third party debt order? Don't know much about the small claims court!

 

really grateful for any advice

[jelly-82]

oh forgot to say, we used the recorded delivery name because the signature does match a signature that was witnessed by my partner.

[buzby]

Citizens Advice prove again they are a waste od space. Don;t they think the DPA exists for water companies...? Where you could chec is the Valuation Roll in your library, it notes the trading names and addresses of all business councl tax payers, and is a public record.

 

You first need a judgement in your favour, then he has around 28 days to pay. If not, you send in the bailiffs. YOU need to know who his bank is - if you have the full details, great - in not, branch or bank nam,e un decreasing levels of usefulness. You need to give this info to the bailiffs, as unless it is obvious to them on a fiest visit, they'll not pursue this angle for you.

[jelly-82]

thats what i thought about needing the bank details, its been hard enough trying to find his name never mind bank! then there is always the chance that he only has one account that is a joint personal account (payed in cash so unsure if he has a business account). I read there is a order to obtain information to call him in to court and give details of his bank but, will there be any point in that? as he could just keep the account empty until after he receives the third party order, thats if he even showed up.

 

Will try the valuation roll, never herd of that.

 

He advertises on auto trader so we can keep a check of his stock, normally has around 20 cars on there so if the bailiffs went to the yard they should be able to recover goods to sell at auction.

 

going to look into applying for judgment later today.

[buzby]

I hate to disappoint, but the bailiffs selling at auction is a long shot. They are there to get your money. Cars are not money, and they will not employ a contractor to take a random number of vehicles in the hope they make the money owed to you, and their expenses. You'll be expected to fund this route, with the risk that if you take too many or too few you;ll have big problems later.

 

Hopefully he pays up!

[jelly-82]

to be honest i don't think his going to do anything he can get away with avoiding, the system seems to be a waste of time and just increases the amount of money lost by having to pay out for the courts...but its either try or bend over! It does state that the court doesn't guarantee any moneys owed will be returned even if the case is won.

 

good point about the bailiffs and selling goods at auction, I just thought that would be the easiest way around.

 

If we apply for the order to obtain information, what would happen if the dealer did not show up at court to give his bank details?

 

and

 

If he did turn up and gave the information and funds where available in the account would the third party order be enforced there and then or would he be expecting it in the post?

 

the order freezes the account from when the order is received, so the obvious thing to do is keep the account empty which again just results in us being out of pocket with no chance of recovering costs.

 

sooooo confused really don't know what to do to give us the best chance of getting the refund

[jelly-82]

just had a look, and you were correct about having to pay the bailiffs fees to recover goods to sell. It basically says that we have to make a promise that if money/goods cannot be recovered we pay there fees, or there fee will be taken from any money raised from the sale of goods and then remaining balance will be given as refund, if the money raised doesn't cover the dept owed we then have to decide to either write off the remainder or request the bailiffs return, and any amount over the dept will be returned to the dealer.

 

at least this way there is some threat to the dealer if he still refuses to pay, the warrant of execution is supposed to enforce the judges decision but if the dealer still says no the judge will simply say thats not my problem.

[jelly-82]

and the story continues....

 

We received the acknowledgment of service on fri 16/07/10 and the ever so lovely dealer is now blaming us for the faults on the vehicle and has issued a counter claim for £200+...wtf

 

The dealer has stated that the vehicle was in good working order when purchased by my partner and that the vehicle needs flushing out, striping down, cleaning and some parts replaced because petrol instead of diesel has been put in the vehicle, causing all the problems with the vehicle!

 

We last saw the vehicle on 21/04/10, when it was last returned to the dealer for a fourth and final opportunity to repair the faults first reported to the dealer on purchase. The dealer is asking for £200.00 storage cost of the vehicle at £20.00pw (22/04/10 - 01/07/10) +£20.00 every week after that!

 

The dealer has tried to repair the vehicle 3 times and failed, he has in writing said that a full inspection has been done on the vehicle, with no mention of petrol been put in the car until now 5 month later. If he has put the vehicle in storage we did not know about it and should not have to pay for this?? we have been asking for months where the car is and he refused to give any information.

 

We phoned peugeot and asked what would happen if petrol was put in a diesel?? they said the car would run for maybe a mile and then cut out, a diesel engine cannot run on petrol, the car would need to be towed to a garage.

[jelly-82]

If petrol has ever been put in the car, we believe either petrol had been put in before purchase by my partner, or the dealer has put petrol in after we last returned it to cover up the real issues

 

What would happen/symptoms if petrol was put in a diesel, and not cleaned out properly then diesel put back in and driven??

Edited July 19, 2010 by jelly-82
question added

[sailor sam]

and the story continues....

 

We received the acknowledgment of service on fri 16/07/10 and the ever so lovely dealer is now blaming us for the faults on the vehicle and has issued a counter claim for £200+...wtf

 

The dealer has stated that the vehicle was in good working order when purchased by my partner and that the vehicle needs flushing out, striping down, cleaning and some parts replaced because petrol instead of diesel has been put in the vehicle, causing all the problems with the vehicle!

 

We last saw the vehicle on 21/04/10, when it was last returned to the dealer for a fourth and final opportunity to repair the faults first reported to the dealer on purchase. The dealer is asking for £200.00 storage cost of the vehicle at £20.00pw (22/04/10 - 01/07/10) +£20.00 every week after that!

 

The dealer has tried to repair the vehicle 3 times and failed, he has in writing said that a full inspection has been done on the vehicle, with no mention of petrol been put in the car until now 5 month later. If he has put the vehicle in storage we did not know about it and should not have to pay for this?? we have been asking for months where the car is and he refused to give any information.

 

We phoned peugeot and asked what would happen if petrol was put in a diesel?? they said the car would run for maybe a mile and then cut out, a diesel engine cannot run on petrol, the car would need to be towed to a garage.

 

 

Bring it on!! The seller is obviously a fool. As you point out, he has had ample time to raise this as a 'defence' previously. The courts are not stupid. Any judge will know that anything could have happened to the car after you handed it back. You already have a judgement on this so my advice is use it. If you have recieved an official counter claim from the court, then file a defence out-lining that at no point during the various times the seller attempted to repair the car, was the wrong type of fuel used as an explaination. The seller is only saying this now 5 months after the event. In any event, from the 21/04/10 as far as you are concerned the car had been rejected and thus returned to the seller so how can you be responsible for storage costs?

 

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[jelly-82]

scenario A:

Petrol was put in the car then drained but not cleaned then re-filled with diesel causing all the issues, then sold by the dealer to my partner knowing there would be problems.

 

scenario B

The cause of the problems is still unknown/unable to be repaired and petrol has been put in to cover the problem, with only the dealers word that petrol has been used, (seen has he has kidnapped the car, and wants to charge us for this) we cannot check to see if the problems have changed.

 

either way hes pretty dumb and this is just the latest story