ross and roberts parking tickets

[ice 123]

Hi there im having a problem with ross and roberts and two outstanding parking tickets ive have contacted them by phone but have never let them in my property.

 

When i contacted them I asked them if the outstanding tickets could be passed back to the council as they were only for £80 each but now with the charges ross and roberts have stuck on top I have now got one ticket at £314.65 and the other one at £425.74 and explained to the ross and roberts bailiff that this was a bit extreme considering that they were only for £80 each but the bailiff was hearing none of it and said they want the full amount.

 

The letters for both tickets were posted through my door the same day by the same bailiff and they read.

 

THE FIRST ONE

 

 

THE ENFORCEMENT OF ROAD TRAFFIC DEBTS (CERTIFIED BAILIFFS) (AMENDMENT) REGUALTIONS 2003

 

ATTENDENCE TO REMOVE NOTICE

having failed to respond to our previous notices for an outstanding penalty charge notice our removal bailiff has called today to effect FULL SETTLEMENT .

 

parking charge notice £80

 

charges incurred £199.70

 

VAT £34.95

 

paid £0

 

TOTAL NOW DUE £314.65

 

FAILURE TO PAY THE FULL OUTSTANDING AMOUNT WILL RESULT IN THE REMOVAL OF YOUR GOODS. YOU MUST CONTACT THE BAILIFF IMMDIATELY.

 

THE BAILIFF HAS THE RIGHT TO PEACEABLY ENTER YOUR PREMISES AND REMOVE GOODS EVEN IN YOUR ABSENCE

 

this is the first letter i recieved on monday and the second was also a removal notice for a different ticket and i am being charged £425.74

 

would really like some advice on this situation as I am refusing to pay this obscene amount and would rather pay the council what I actuallt owe how do I go about doing this.

 

And to add to this I am 70 years old and am a pensioner now I dont mind paying what I owe but having letters through my door threatening like this is very distressing for me and my wife of simiular age is there any way to stop this please help thankyou:mad:

[seanamarts]

Please do not take offence to this but you are classed as a vulnerable person with regards to the 'National standards of enforcement agents.

Department for Constitutional Affairs - Enforcement - National Standards for Enforcement Agents

I am presuming that you and your wife do not work.

Vulnerable situations

 

 

• Enforcement agents/agencies and creditors must recognise that they each have a role in ensuring that the vulnerable and socially excluded are protected and that the recovery process includes procedures agreed between the agent/agency and creditor about how such situations should be dealt with. The appropriate use of discretion is essential in every case and no amount of guidance could cover every situation, therefore the agent has a duty to contact the creditor and report the circumstances in situations where there is potential cause for concern. If necessary, the enforcement agent will advise the creditor if further action is appropriate. The exercise of appropriate discretion is needed, not only to protect the debtor, but also the enforcement agent who should avoid taking action which could lead to accusations of inappropriate behaviour.
  
• Wherever possible, enforcement agents should have arrangements in place for rapidly accessing translation services when these are needed, and provide on request information in large print or in Braille for debtors with impaired sight.
  
• Those who might be potentially vulnerable include:
  
  • the elderly;
    
  • people with a disability;
    
  • the seriously ill;
    
  • the recently bereaved;
    
  • single parent families;
    
  • pregnant women;
    
  • unemployed people; and,
    
  • those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.
    

I suggest you write to both council and bailiff company. Speaking to them on the phone is a fruitless task and you will end up being more frustrated then you started. Emailing them is a good way to get a quick responce but follow it up with a letter.

 

Did you get a NTO.

[babybell123]

My wife does work but only partime and i am retired but work with my wife for 2 hours a day just to keep my self busy

 

Whats a NTO ???

 

and thanks for the quick response

[ice 123]

sorry my daughter in law is also a memeber and was logged in when i responsded

[seanamarts]

Notice to owner (NTO)

did you Know that you had these parking tickets, where you given the chance to appeal them

[ice 123]

From what I am aware i have not recieved a NTO and we did have the right to appeal and did so over the phone but obviously nothing happened about that as the next communication we had was from Ross and Roberts on the 25th may 2010 we had no response from the actual council to say wether the appeal had been accepted or rejected so we thought they were dealing with it but they had obviously referred it to Ross and Roberts .

[seanamarts]

From what I am aware i have not recieved a NTO and we did have the right to appeal and did so over the phone but obviously nothing happened about that as the next communication we had was from Ross and Roberts on the 25th may 2010 we had no response from the actual council to say wether the appeal had been accepted or rejected so we thought they were dealing with it but they had obviously referred it to Ross and Roberts .

Unfortunately you have to write in to appeal a PCN. However you can write to the council asking that they take back the debt from the bailiffs due to the fact that 1. you had requested, via a phone call for an appeal against the two PCN's and this was not answered.

2. You are in fact classed as vulnerable according to the National standards of enforcement agents.

Also request that all bailiff action be put on hold until this has been investigated. If they refuse this then send a complaint to the chief executive of the council outlining this situation.

[ice 123]

Ref :xxxxxxxxxxxx

Ref:xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

To whom it may concern

I am writing in regards to the two outstanding parking tickets I have recieved and that are now with Ross and Roberts LTD ref xxxxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxxxxx, I would like the council to take back the two tickets from Ross and Roberts as the amount Ross and Roberts are now charging me is ridiculous one ticket that is orginally for £80 has now risen to £314.65 and the s econd ticket for £110 has now risen to £425.74, this i believe is unfair and am not able to pay these charges as I am a pensioner .

 

I would like to point out that previous to the tickets being passed to Ross and Roberts that I had infact appealed these tickets over the phone to the council and the lady on the phone expressed to me that they would look into the points I had raised . Well there was no communication from yourselves at all until the first removal notice from Ross and Roberts .

 

I would also like to point out that I myself am indeed classed as a vulnerable according to the National standards of enforcement agents as I am 69 yrs old and claiming a pension as is my wife , and to have Ross and Roberts post letters through my door in this threatening manner has put a great strain on my wife and myself.

]Department for Constitutional Affairs - Enforcement - National Standards for Enforcement Agents

]Vulnerable situations]

• ]Enforcement agents/agencies and creditors must recognise that they each have a role in ensuring that the vulnerable and socially excluded are protected and that the recovery process includes procedures agreed between the agent/agency and creditor about how such situations should be dealt with. The appropriate use of discretion is essential in every case and no amount of guidance could cover every situation, therefore the agent has a duty to contact the creditor and report the circumstances in situations where there is potential cause for concern. If necessary, the enforcement agent will advise the creditor if further action is appropriate. The exercise of appropriate discretion is needed, not only to protect the debtor, but also the enforcement agent who should avoid taking action which could lead to accusations of inappropriate behaviour. [/font]
  
• Wherever possible, enforcement agents should have arrangements in place for rapidly accessing translation services when these are needed, and provide on request information in large print or in Braille for debtors with impaired sight.
  
• ]Those who might be potentially vulnerable include:
  
  • the elderly
    
  • []people with a disability;
    
  • the seriously ill;
    
  • [the recently bereaved;
    
  • single parent families;
    
  • pregnant women;
    
  • unemployed people; and, those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.
    

  [*]

  [*]So therefore I would like to have all bailiff action postponed until this matter is rectified as I believe Ross and Roberts have acted improperly towards myself. I have no quarrel about paying the oustanding tickets but do have a problem in paying the exstorsionate fees from the bailiff .

I would be very grateful if this matter could be looked at further thank you

Yours

this is the letter I have drafted to send to the council could you tell me if this is ok

Edited July 8, 2010 by ice 123

[hallowitch]

your letter is OK but i wouldn't hold by breath waiting on the council being understanding

Get in touch with your MP see if he/she can help

 

your bailiff fees are way over the top

If a bailiff is collecting more than one parking ticket at the same time they can only charge 1 set of visit fees

 

send this to R&R by recorded delivery letter put all account numbers on it if you don't have all account give them your car reg and remind them they are 2 accounts and you want the information for both

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme bailiff Co

bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account. Can you please provide me with a Breakdown of the charges including Computer Screenshot.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

[ice 123]

Hi just thought I would give you a update . I recieved a breakdown of the fees from Ross and Roberts but am a little confused on where some of these charges are coming from

 

the first breakdown says

 

ticket issued for not having a ticket clearly displayed

 

debt £ 80.00

costs £0.00

fees £199.70

VAT £34.95

total £314.65

 

FEES

 

25/03/2010 debt £80.00

26/03.2010 DVLA check £2.50

26/03/2010 Letter Fee £11.20

06/04/2010 Levy fee £28.00

06/04/2010 first visit £50.00

23/04/2010 second visit £50.00

07/05/2010 levy fee 58.00

 

and the second letter reads much the same so I was just wondering if this was right as I thought a levy fee was only put in place when goods have been levied and they havent so is this charge wrong

 

PLEASE HELP THANKS

[seanamarts]

Have they been to your property?? Have you written a FORMAL complaint to the CHIEF EXECUTIVE of your local council.

[JH101]

I'm not surprised you're a bit confused. That is a totally bizarre schedule of fees.

 

As I expect you know, the fees they are permitted to charge are set out in the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993, as amended 2003.

 

A consolidated version of the amended fee schedule has been put up on the web by the bailiff company Equita, at:

 

http://www.equita.co.uk/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=r0du9hZ12t0%3d&tabid=202

 

The Regulations are governed by the Distress for Rent Rules; of which Regulation 10, as duly adapted, provides that "'No person shall be entitled to charge, or recover from, the debtor any fees, charges or expenses for levying a distress, or for doing any act or thing in relation thereto, other than those authorised by the tables in Schedule 1 to these Regulations".

 

As you will see,

* There is no such thing as a "DVLA Check Fee" authorised in Schedule 1.

 

Next up is the question of their "levy" on 06/04/2010.

* What goods, exactly do they claim to have levied? Because you have no knowledge or information of anything of this having happened. They have certainly never served you with the required "Notice of Seizure".

 

They're then claiming an "attendance to remove" of £50.

* What is it that they have attended to remove?

* Why then didn't they remove it?

* What exactly are the additional reasonable (ie actual and necessary) costs that they are claiming to have incurred, after the levy stage, to effect this attendance?

* What evidence are they producing that any of this farrago ever happened at all?

 

Second "attendance to remove" of £50: ditto.

* Also, the prescribed table of fees specifically only allows for one attendance to remove. So there is no way that they can claim both.

 

Second "levy"

* What is it that they are now claiming to have levied, that they are claiming is different to whatever they first claimed?

 

The claim of two different levies, for the same warrant, is quite extraordinary, and clearly not supported by the schedule of prescribed fees.

 

The prescribed fees set the amount they can levy for the whole debt. If they find more items to take charge of, they can add to their levy -- but they can't charge for it.

 

 

Finally, per Throssell v. Leeds City Council, as confirmed in recent cases like Mishcon v. Drake's, they can't bill the same cost multiple times to different warrants. If there are two debts outstanding, the levy fee must be calculated by applying it to the total combined amount over both debts that has been levied for. Similarly, they can't double-charge a visit fee, or an attendance fee, or a removal fee.

 

 

This needs to go back with a very stiffly worded letter to Ross and Roberts, and also be made in its own right the subject of a formal complaint to the council -- which you should tell Ross and Roberts about.

 

It's a complete shambles.

Edited July 21, 2010 by JH101

[JH101]

By the way, what is the position at the moment?

 

How much in all have you currently paid, and to whom?

 

And what is the status of your case with the bailiffs -- is it all paid up, is it "on hold", or have the Council withdrawn their warrant from the bailiffs?

[ice 123]

In answer to all your questions they have been to my property but have not been let inside there has been no levying of my goods at all.

 

In regards to the situation of the bailiffs the cases are active and I have paid nothing to the baififfs as I refused to pay there stupid fees I was willing to make an agreement with them to pay the fine and t5he fine only but they refused

 

I havent written a complaint to the council but will do so asap

[JH101]

So no car on the driveway or parked outside your house that they could have claimed to have taken charge of?

 

(Often they'd clamp it, but they don't have to. So long as they can touch it and inspect it, they can claim to have taken legal charge of it -- if they put a Notice of Seizure through your door).

[ice 123]

No no notice of seizure or any car that can be asscioated with me because the reg of the car involved I no longer own nothing at all

[ice 123]

And on the breakdown of fees letter underneath the fees there is another box that says vists and lists how many visists have occured

 

VISISTS

 

19apr2010 16:58 bailiff call amount collected 0.00

(ARR) no

(LEVY) no

(WP) no

and says this on 4 different dates on both letters its very confusing ????

[JH101]

It would probably help at least your moral position if you could persuade the Council to take the 2x £80 you owe to them for the PCNs and the warrant.

 

But you want to make sure the bailiffs don't have first call on the fees -- given how bizarre the bailiff's account of events is, and how strange their claimed explanation of charges.

 

What happens when you try to talk to the Council to check this?

 

(If the Council say they can't take any money because the matter is with the bailiffs, there are some quite strong arguments that can be put against that. But if they admit they'd just hand it over to the bailiffs, then probably best to hang on to your money, until you have explained to them in writing why that would be inappropriate, and got their assurance in writing that they won't do it. But remind them whenever you write to them that you had made the offer).

Edited July 21, 2010 by JH101

[JH101]

Under the Visits, the three important dates are 6 April, 23 April and 5 May. Is anything shown for those dates?

[ice 123]

no the bailiff didnt call on the dates levy fees were incurred